I'll see your, \"What Islam Means...\"

[VonVulcan]

And raise you, \"Women to blame for earthquakes, says Iran cleric\"


Women behaving promiscuously are causing the earth to shake according to cleric, as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad predicts Tehran quake

* Associated Press
* guardian.co.uk, Monday 19 April 2010 16.00 BST

A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear revealing clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes.

Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, and the cleric's unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a prediction by the president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, that a quake is certain to hit Tehran and that many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate.

\"Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which increases earthquakes,\" Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by Iranian media.

Women in the Islamic Republic are required by law to cover from head to toe, but many, especially the young, ignore some of the more strict codes and wear tight coats and scarves pulled back that show much of the hair.

\"What can we do to avoid being buried under the rubble?\" Sedighi asked during a prayer sermon last week. \"There is no other solution but to take refuge in religion and to adapt our lives to Islam's moral codes.\"

Seismologists have warned for at least two decades that it is likely the sprawling capital will be struck by a catastrophic quake in the near future.

Some experts have even suggested Iran should move its capital to a less seismically active location. Tehran straddles scores of fault lines, including one more than 50 miles (80km) long, though it has not suffered a major quake since 1830.

In 2003, a powerful earthquake hit the southern city of Bam, killing 31,000 people – about a quarter of that city's population – and destroying its ancient mud-built citadel.

\"A divine authority told me to tell the people to make a general repentance. Why? Because calamities threaten us,\" said Sedighi, Tehran's acting Friday prayer leader.

Referring to the violence that followed last June's disputed presidential election, he said, \"The political earthquake that occurred was a reaction to some of the actions [that took place]. And now, if a natural earthquake hits Tehran, no one will be able to confront such a calamity but God's power, only God's power. ... So let's not disappoint God.\"

The Iranian government and its security forces have been locked in a bloody battle with a large opposition movement that accuses Ahmadinejad of winning last year's vote by fraud.

Ahmadinejad made his quake prediction two weeks ago but said he could not give an exact date. He acknowledged that he could not order all of Tehran's 12m people to evacuate. \"But provisions have to be made. ... At least 5m should leave Tehran so it is less crowded,\" the president said.

The welfare minister, Sadeq Mahsooli, said prayers and pleas for forgiveness were the best \"formulae to repel earthquakes\".

\"We cannot invent a system that prevents earthquakes, but God has created this system and that is to avoid sins, to pray, to seek forgiveness, pay alms and self-sacrifice,\" Mahsooli said.

[CUDA]

It must be from all the beds shaking while that adultry is going on thats causing the earthquakes.



I do believe that is the single most moronic thing that I have read in at least 2 hours.

[Sergeant Thorne]

... and scarves pulled back that show much of the hair.

\"To the pure all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving...\"

[Top Gun]

So their milkshake brings all the boys to the yard?

And to be perfectly fair across the board, this sort of radical stupidity is hardly exclusive to Islam. Even here in the US, we have prominent Christian evangelists who claimed that America \"deserved\" what happened on 9/11 due to \"sinful acts,\" and nutjobs like the Westboro Baptist Church squawking that God is killing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan because he hates homosexuality. No matter what the ingredients, mixing extremism with religion makes for a dangerous cocktail.

[CUDA]

we have prominent Christian evangelists who claimed that America "deserved" what happened on 9/11 due to "sinful acts," and nutjobs like the Westboro Baptist Church squawking that God is killing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan because he hates homosexuality.

Prominent???? hardly

also in regards to Westboro

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.




22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other

tell me what God thinks about those people

[Top Gun]

we have prominent Christian evangelists who claimed that America "deserved" what happened on 9/11 due to "sinful acts," and nutjobs like the Westboro Baptist Church squawking that God is killing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan because he hates homosexuality.

Prominent???? hardly

Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, unfortunately, were/are very prominent figures in the evangelical community.

tell me what God thinks about those people

I sincerely hope he'd like to kick their asses for acting as though they represent him.

[Duper]

Top, even those of us in the Christian community look at statements like that and say wth??! Something not right has been going on with those two for some time now. Beyond that is anyone's guess.

Prominent? not any more. Well known, yes.

[Heretic]

So I see Topgun is still a troller extremist. Get a job and stop being a mommas boy.

Get a haircut and get a real job,
clean your act up and don't be a slob
Get it together like your big brother bob,
why don't you get a haircut and get a real job

[Krom]

Superman would like to apologize for causing these earthquakes while in bed with president's and welfare minister's daughters, and will attempt to provide a brief advance warning next time.

[Top Gun]

Top, even those of us in the Christian community look at statements like that and say wth??! Something not right has been going on with those two for some time now. Beyond that is anyone's guess.

I know, and that's a very good thing. But what you have to keep in mind is that most ordinary Muslims would look at the statements made by Iran's leadership and have that exact same "WTF?!!" reaction. Trying to apply the words and actions of fringe extremists to the moderate majority can be a dangerous practice.

So I see Topgun is still a troller extremist. Get a job and stop being a mommas boy.

Huh, so making a neutral statement citing a documented incident now counts as "trolling." Good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

(Paging Mr. Ad Hominem, Mr. Ad Hominem, you have a telephone call at the front desk.)

[AlphaDoG]

Superman would like to apologize for causing these earthquakes while in bed with president's and welfare minister's daughters, and will attempt to provide a brief advance warning next time.

LOL and the flash, well, he's just sorry!

[Heretic]

Ad hominem I see you learn a new word mamas boy. First the subject was earthquakes and Islam Not Christianity and terrorism. You changed the subject to try and raise the ire among Christians on this board so yes you are trolling with your leftist shrill. Again get a haircut and get a real and job move out of your mamas house.

[Will Robinson]

Topgun do you really believe there is an equivalent in the two religions followers when it comes to supporting the wacko policy of some clerics/preachers?
On one side I see Iran and Afghanistan as well as shadow governments like Hezbollah and Hamas....all deadly forces on an international scale and they are not the only examples like this but my coffee hasn't kick started my memory yet. On the other side I see Westboro Baptist Church as the largest organization out there that is actually reaching out to terrorize others armed only with hateful words and boorish behavior.

The base just isn't there for the Christian wacko movement (not even a movement, more like a gesture) and that difference is no small thing since it is the difference between government enforced misogyny, government schools teaching racism and ratifying murder, hostage taking, suicide bombings and beheading.

Your knee jerk desire to find political correct balance is causing you to make excuses for some really serious problems.
Benevolent Islam is the young offshoot of the original and still very powerful, very large and entrenched malignant Islam.
There is nothing wrong with recognizing the reality of this. There is a lot wrong with trying to rationalize away the differences.

If the Pope was out there blaming premarital sex or homosexuality for hurricanes and had the power to dictate policy to the WhiteHouse you would have a similarity otherwise we just have you spewing bull★■◆●.

[woodchip]

I think the earthquakes are caused by the Muslim prohibition against women wearing bras.

[CUDA]

I think the earthquakes are caused by the Muslim prohibition against women wearing bras.

Must be some big chested women in Iran

[Foil]

And here I thought it was due to Deepak Chopra's meditation.

(For those who don't like following links: Chopra apologized for a recent earthquake caused by his deep meditation.)

[Kilarin]

Seriously, why do we need to be personally insulting just because we disagree with someone? It doesn't look good for your side of the argument, that's for certain.

[Top Gun]

Ad hominem I see you learn a new word mamas boy. First the subject was earthquakes and Islam Not Christianity and terrorism. You changed the subject to try and raise the ire among Christians on this board so yes you are trolling with your leftist shrill. Again get a haircut and get a real and job move out of your mamas house.

Um, I am a Christian myself, Mr. Oblivious, and I'm not "leftist" by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. Seriously, the only way you can respond to me is by throwing out some undefined insults ("Get a haircut"? What the hell?) based on a comment or two I made in another thread? This is your idea of having a good discussion? It's really nothing short of hilarious.

Your knee jerk desire to find political correct balance is causing you to make excuses for some really serious problems.
Benevolent Islam is the young offshoot of the original and still very powerful, very large and entrenched malignant Islam.
There is nothing wrong with recognizing the reality of this. There is a lot wrong with trying to rationalize away the differences.

If the Pope was out there blaming premarital sex or homosexuality for hurricanes and had the power to dictate policy to the WhiteHouse you would have a similarity otherwise we just have you spewing *****.

"Kneejerk political correctness"? Seriously? Please at least do me the courtesy of assuming that I have a decent grasp of the current situation.

Of course I recognize that what we define as the Islamic world today has some very serious fundamental issues; I'd be a fool not to. But I think it's doing a disservice to those attempting to resolve those issues to throw the blame squarely at the feet of pure religious doctrine. When in the wrong hands, religious teachings can easily be used to manipulate people living in poor conditions, and that's exactly what we're seeing in the Middle East today. I think it's an interesting exercise to compare the current situation to that of Europe at the time of the Crusades, when Western monarchs undertook military campaigns against Jerusalem more for political gain and as an outlet for knights' martial ambitions than for nobler causes. At that time, the Islamic Calpihate was essentially the most advanced and enlightened civilization in the entire region...fast forward the better part of a millennium, and due to any number of political and social events in the interim, here we are, with significant portions of the Islamic world seemingly stuck a few hundred years in the past in terms of their political evolution. As many have noted, "Mideast peace" is a very daunting prospect.

In any case, it's pretty clear that there are a whole lot of people out there making "All Muslims are evil terrorists durrhurr" sorts of statements...and actually believing it. Threads like this one tend to set off warning bells in my head, because it's so very easy for them to go down that path and try to paint a billion people with the brush used by a comparative few radicals. Criticizing the Iranian government, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and the like is good...but taking it further than that is where I start to raise eyebrows. It's doing a disservice not only to ourselves, but also to anyone reading these forums who might happen to be of the Islamic faith.

[CUDA]

Um, I am a Christian myself,

I want to preface this by saying I am not taking a dig at you. I would just like clarification on your "I am Christian" statement. too many people in this country call themselves "Christians" just because they were born here. when they really have no idea about the teachings and life of Christ.

A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪs.tʃən/ ( listen), /ˈkrɪs.ti.ən/) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who they believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the Son of God.

do you fall into this category ?

[Lothar]

No matter what the ingredients, mixing extremism with religion makes for a dangerous cocktail.

How about "extremism makes for a dangerous cocktail"?

The only reason to draw a specific connection to Islam is that, when practiced according to its founder's teachings, it's a breeding ground for certain types of extremism.

To be fair, most of the Iranian populace thinks their "senior clerics" are morons; the connection to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell is a good one.

[Spidey]

Those two were the ones I thought of when I read this thread…

Go figure.

[Top Gun]

A Christian (pronounced /ˈkrɪs.tʃən/ ( listen), /ˈkrɪs.ti.ən/) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, who they believe is the Messiah (the Christ in Greek-derived terminology) prophesied in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, and the Son of God.

do you fall into this category ?

Yes, last time I checked.

No matter what the ingredients, mixing extremism with religion makes for a dangerous cocktail.

How about "extremism makes for a dangerous cocktail"?

The only reason to draw a specific connection to Islam is that, when practiced according to its founder's teachings, it's a breeding ground for certain types of extremism.

To be fair, most of the Iranian populace thinks their "senior clerics" are morons; the connection to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell is a good one.

Extremism is very dangerous in general, though I think introducing religious elements runs the added risk of promising eternal rewards for committing heinous acts; as you noted, Islamic extremism has unfortunately used the concept of "jihad" in that fashion to great effect. And it's a very good thing that so much of the Iranian populace, particularly the younger generation, disagree with their clerics' statements, though they certainly face a long uphill battle to achieve true reform in their government.

[Foil]

Um, I am a Christian myself,

...I would just like clarification on your "I am Christian" statement.

Suggestion: A little searching on TopGun's posts from years back. [Yes, "years", he's been around for longer than I have, although he's been busy with graduate work for some time, as I recall.]

You'll find that he is indeed Christian (not only in words), and not nearly as leftist as you may think.

----

TG,

Suggestion: You've been away quite a while. While you're somewhat correct in your impression that the overall culture here in E&C has taken a decidedly rightward turn, these guys aren't all as extremist as you think. These guys know how to push buttons; but don't let yourself get so easily worked up.

[Kilarin]

To be fair, most of the Iranian populace thinks their "senior clerics" are morons; the connection to Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell is a good one.

Absolutely.

I do see one important difference, which others have already pointed to.

Nations where a (mostly) Christian culture/civilization predominates certainly spawn their own share of terrorists and wackos. But who is busy trying to keep them under control, those very same nations. That's why rude idiots like South Park can make fun of Jesus without much fear of someone trying to shoot them for it, despite the fact that what they have done is very offensive to a large portion of the population.

But the same can't really be said for many current Muslim cultures. The governments may make a half hearted public attempt to stop the dangerous elements, but not much of one. And the public often offers outright and open support.

If the IRA blows a bunch of innocents up, Christians express outrage and try to hunt the criminals down. When Islamic terrorists blow up innocents, Muslims get out in the street and party.

This has NOT always been true. Back up a few hundred years and Jews were fleeing to Islamic nations for safety from Christian terrorism. So I'm not convinced that this is mainly a doctrinal issue.

I think it ties most strongly to the separation of Church and State. Christianity has Roger Williams and many like him who fought a long and difficult battle to separate Church and State. The result is not perfect, but it HAS led to more freedom and justice for BOTH Church and State. Islam has never made the same leap. They have moved more strongly to the horror that is Sharia law.

The unholy amalgamation of Church and State ALWAYS leads to abuse and injustice on both sides. Until Islam gives up Sharia law, it CAN NOT be considered anything but a danger to themselves and all around them.

[Foil]

Quick note on the original post:

I just saw a new group that just popped up on a relative's Facebook page: BoobQuake