CTF is overrated and promotes bad habits

[Darktalyn1]

Veins CTF is the ONLY CTF these days.

[snoopy]

I liked entropy, though I was generally bad at it because I died too much to cap.

[BUBBALOU]

We orginally hacked veins at SCL just to move the spawnpoints for monsterball..

How it became the hidden spawn, powerup gobbling ctf crapshoot it is now, is because.....

Polaris CTF is too hard for the No0bs

[Darktalyn1]

it became the hidden spawn, powerup gobbling ctf crapshoot

This probably goes a long way toward my dislike of CTF. It might not be so much the mod that I hate, just the way it plays on that level (which happens to be only one that gets any play-time)

[Sirius]

CTF (in a decent level; I don't count Veins or Worlds Apart as decent levels) does add something that pure anarchy lacks; it's a team game. Team anarchy is sort of a team game, but not nearly as much of one as it doesn't hinge so heavily on people working together.

There's a time and a place for both, but CTF is one of the things I actually missed about D3 in D1/2. XL kinda fixed that, but too late for it to get any real circulation unfortunately.

[Lothar]

We can play 1 game of CTF on Halcyon and one game of Team anarchy.

If you wish to test Foil's accusation -- that you don't know strategy and are always out of position -- Halcyon is a worthless choice for a CTF level. You have to be actually retarded to get out of position in Hally; it's one big hallway. As for strategy, a team full of dominant anarchy players in tanks can pretty much just fly toward the other team's base and play anarchy, occasionally flying out with a flag, and win by a ridiculous margin. So Halcyon is a terrible test level.

I don't consider Veins a great CTF test either -- too easy for a couple of really good players to camp their own base with MD and missiles and rack up a ridiculous number of kills, making scoring grind to a halt (or, if their team has a couple of really good flag runners and the other team isn't playing solid D, making an instant blowout.)

4v4 in Glasshouse, or 5v5 in Polaris, are good CTF. Those require strategy, teamwork, coordination, and positioning. I think a team of Grendel-Krom-Foil-Chz coordinating via voice would give DT-Behe-Ryujin-Behe's bro playing "pure anarchy" (no team communication) a pretty good run for their money. Play the same level as team anarchy for comparison purposes; I think you'd be surprised how much of a difference good team coordination makes in CTF.

(As an added bonus, CTF in Glasshouse or Polaris don't reward the same "bad habits" that CTF in Veins does.)

------

Everyone's running away from fights instead of taking their lumps like a man.

Flag-running in a feenie requires a lot more skill than you first realized (and it's REALLY hard in a BP if there's no microwave.) Running away in anarchy is easy. Actually needing to get all the way from your base to the other base and back again is *hard*.

If you and me were on the same team (and therefore facing the same defense) running flags, I'd get more than you 9 times out of 10. Foil and Grendel would too. You simply don't have the skills -- not merely "running away", but the knowledge of how and when to run away, how and when to fight, how to coordinate with your team, and so on.

You're overreliant on the subset of Descent skills you learned from playing anarchy. As Master Sirian might say, you're not a complete player.

[Duper]

As Master Sirian might say, you're not a complete player.

OUCH! Buuuurrrrrn!


lol.. then again, I fall into that same catagory!

[NUMBERZero]

There was a real good CTF game that Foil and I played a long time ago. I forgot the name. It was huge, the main theme was blue, and the flags could see eachother through a giant window. It really did play extremely well without the MD. 3v3 would have been the minimum, but it seemed to work out for us with 2v2 (i think it was 2v2 for a while. But I seem to remember Foil and I on a team and there was one time in the enemy base where they just kept coming non stop and I had to repeatedly \"remove the trash from their base.\"

[Alter-Fox]

I remember one of Hunter's levels (which I played 1 on 1 with my brother... boring game) looked like that, but I can't remember the name... possibly Aquilae Hub?

[Kilarin]

Horrible Analogy. I love chess, and even played in some local tournaments when I was younger.

The fact that you love chess wouldn't make it a horrible analogy.

analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

The point was that there is a difference between "I don't like that game", and "I have to hunt down the people who DO like it and convince them not to"

So, what IS your motivation for trying to convince everyone who LIKES CTF that it is a stupid game? Note, I'm NOT asking why you would say it was a stupid game if someone asked. I'm asking why you feel obligated to START a thread about it? Why you feel a NEED to convince others on this point?

[Darktalyn1]

Lothar;

As Master Sirian might say, you're not a complete player.

Nobody's a complete player. Also quoting old washed up players doesn't carry a lot of weight.

Kilarin;

I have no need to convince anyone of anything.

It's all about getting a discussion going on an otherwise silent forum

[Darktalyn1]

I think a team of Grendel-Krom-Foil-Chz coordinating via voice would give DT-Behe-Ryujin-Behe's bro playing \"pure anarchy\" (no team communication) a pretty good run for their money.

So now you're saying the CTF players would get the advantage of using voice communication while the Anarchy players couldn't? Wow. Talk about stacking the deck. My point was that Anarchy-centric players could easily play CTF the right way if they wanted to, their skills are much more transferable. This includes voice communication and planting cameras (2 things I never do). You don't think if I started doing that, it would make a difference?

Just because I choose not to do those kinds of things on a regular basis, doesn't mean I couldn't However, I don't see any CTF stalwarts jumping into Anarchy matches and dominating, they just can't.

If you and me were on the same team (and therefore facing the same defense) running flags, I'd get more than you 9 times out of 10. Foil and Grendel would too. You simply don't have the skills

I really doubt that

[Lothar]

My point was that Anarchy-centric players could easily play CTF the right way if they wanted to, their skills are much more transferable.

Really? That doesn't sound like what you've been saying up until this point. It sounds like you've been saying CTF is bad and not worth learning and that everyone should be playing anarchy instead because it's the only worthwhile game mode.

I think you greatly underestimate the skills it takes to play CTF well. Being a very good anarchy player transfers to pretty much any game mode to some degree; if you can hold a 70% efficiency in anarchy you're going to be more difficult for your opponents to deal with in other game modes than you would be if you only held 50% in anarchy. But there are specific CTF skills you appear to currently be lacking (beyond "cameras" and "voice communication"; I'll relent on that suggested restriction). There are guys who aren't that good in anarchy who tend to contribute quite a bit in CTF because they have skills you don't. Instead of talking about how you could play CTF the right way if you wanted to, go out and prove it; I'm confident you'll learn in the process that you've got some room to grow. There are things you could learn from players like me, Foil, and Bottlerocket, despite the fact that you're a much better anarchy player than us.

Of course, there are anarchy skills I'm lacking too; I barely scored 200 to your 300 over the course of two games in Indika yesterday (with fusion just above blues on my autoselect.) So I didn't exactly dominate, but I did pretty well; it's not like CTF is harming my anarchy skills.

[Zero!]

ctf would be bomb if people didnt whore cameras all the time

[Darktalyn1]

Proven on the first try.

Capture The Flag

Game: Descent Retirement Home I

Level: 1


Plankton: 12[19]
SpongeBob: 9[16]



Rank Team Name Score Kills Deaths Suicides Time In Game
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Plankt timmy 5[5] 72[80] 61[70] 13[13] 1:03:32 hours
2) Sponge braveheart 3[5] 56[91] 62[121] 7[11] 1:51:59 hours
3) Plankt [RIP]Lothar 3[3] 67[73] 73[79] 14[16] 1:02:47 hours
4) Plankt Grendel 2[7] 74[122] 49[88] 5[9] 1:43:35 hours
5) Sponge [RIP]Machete_Bug 2[2] 30[36] 85[98] 5[7] 1:05:09 hours
6) Sponge Tweety Bird 1[2] 76[113] 49[78] 5[5] 1:24:06 hours
7) Sponge [RIP]hugh 0[0] 0[0] 0[0] 0[0] -1:-58:-10 hours
Sponge *crusty 2[4] 75[132] 54[91] 8[16] 1:43:08 hours
9) Sponge *dues 2[2] 33[34] 43[44] 4[4] 43:24 minutes
10) Sponge *[RIP]hugh 1[1] 43[46] 42[46] 2[2] 58:47 minutes

And my MD shot was way off in the penix.

Honestly, it wasn't that difficult.

[Lothar]

Proven on the first try.

Way to rise to the challenge. Congrats.

I think we both got what we wanted out of that. You got your ego stroked; I got a good CTF teammate.

If we do it again I may even bring my skippy and push for the flag from the beginning.

[Foil]

Good-looking game, DT. Gotta give you some props for finally playing aggressive CTF and getting some flags. Makes you a much better CTF teammate.

[Edit: You were flying a Skippy? Try hard aggressive flag-running in a Tank next time - it's a bit more of a challenge. I do that once in a while as a change of pace.]

[Sickone]

I must admit some of the most fun I ever had
was playing team games (of various kinds) when
all of the Asylum players were in the same room.
Obviously being able to talk(yell) back and forth
was an advantage.

The fun was just humor in the conversation.

[Grendel]

And don't just mindless run, it pays to wait for backup/help once in a while before going into enemy territory

[Lothar]

And don't just mindless run, it pays to wait for backup/help once in a while before going into enemy territory ;)

I know for sure he picked up on that tactic. His last 2 captures, he waited for me and Tweety Bird to kill each other and then swooped in to nab the flag.

[Grendel]

Yep. Just saying.