Noah's ark found??

[CUDA]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/ ... ey-arafat/

Comments???

[CDN_Merlin]

Saw a Discovery show on this last year. They haven't been able to visit the site as it's a sacred place in Turkey and the Gov't isn't allowing them there. All they had were sat pics. It could be anything.

Until they visit the site and excavate it, we can't tell.

[CUDA]

re-read the article apparently they have pics of the insides

[Foil]

Heh, I saw specials on this 20 years ago. It's the same story every time:

\"Explorers got close enough to examine it, but the Turkish government won't let them excavate. We're 99% sure this is it!\"

When I was a teenager, it sounded pretty intriguing, and the stories were convincing. Same for some 'specials' I saw about the Ark of the Covenant, claiming it was found and kept secretly hidden somewhere. As I got older, it became more and more clear that the claims that they were \"on the cusp of a great religious discovery\" were overblown at best.

Honestly, it's beginning to look more and more like these organizations are playing on folk who are willing to donate to their cause.

[CUDA]

The group claims that carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old, meaning they date to around the same time the ark was said to be afloat. Mt. Ararat has long been suspected as the final resting place of the craft by evangelicals and literalists hoping to validate biblical stories

how do you carbon date something without physicaly touching it??

Local Turkish officials will ask the central government in Ankara to apply for UNESCO World Heritage status so the site can be protected while a major archaeological dig is conducted.

it also appears that an excavation is in the planning.

again this is like the shroud of Turin to me, it can only confirm my beliefs, it will not shake them. because we probably cannot know with 100% certainty that this is the Ark. because unlike most Naval vessels today I doubt you'll find \"Noah's Ark\" stamped to the side of it

I'm sure also that some day the Arc of the Covenant will be found.

[Duper]

I'm with Foil here. I saw a special where a group of guys (2 or 3) actually went into on half of it. They brought back a small chunk of wood. It it only accessable certain times of the year because of a glacier. And yeah, they weren't allowed back in a second time.
20 years ago would be about right iirc.

[Grendel]

Must be slow news week.

I'm w/ Foil, here's another example. Some debunking of the ark in Turkey from '96. But hey, look for yourself from your home !

[CUDA]

Must be slow news week.

well if you'd like I could post another topic about how F'd up the liberal left is, or how all athiests are going to hell. we all know how civil and inspiring a discussion those are

[Grendel]

Your were asking for comments, you got a comment. Not my problem if you can't handle it.

[Isaac]

This topic has opened my eyes to the truth. If they found an old boat on high terrain that means it's all real. I will go to church from now on, despite how boring it is. Thank you CUDA for saving me.

[Xamindar]

Same for some 'specials' I saw about the Ark of the Covenant, claiming it was found and kept secretly hidden somewhere.

Yeah I saw that as well. It's apparently locked away in some government warehouse where no one will ever find it. Imagine how the world would be if the Germans were able to hold on to it.

Regarding Noah's Ark? Come on. Isn't it reasonable to assume that they dismantled it and used the resources for other things after they landed? Why would you need to leave a huge boat just sitting there that would never be used again? God did promise that he would never flood the world like that again.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Got a pry-bar handy so we can dismantle this huge boat and carry the lumber down the side of the mountain?

[Spidey]

Well, they did have plenty of beasts of burden.

[CDN_Merlin]

The biblical story says that God decided to flood the Earth after seeing how corrupt it was. He then told Noah to build an ark and fill it with two of every animal species.

That is one massive boat to hold 2 of everything. And since they supposedily found it in 2008 and we haven't heard a thing in 2 years, I call bullcockle.

[LEON]

Is there any people that believe those storys in the Bible actually happend in real life?!!

I mean...Adam and Eva was living in the garden of Eden. A serpent speaks to Eva and tempt her to eat from the forbidden fruit. She offer the fruit to Adam, which he accept. After that they feel naked and clothes themself with an fig leaf.........!? Really?

Or
Man try to build a tower into heaven, God split their tongue...........

Or in this case:
God want to wipe all life out by a big flood, but he have clemency for Noha, and tell him to build a big boat and collect all the animals, one of each gender.....and so on.

All this storys have the signs of being mythical storys.
We must try to understand them.

Take the holy grail. If you find the holy grail you will get eternal life, right?
So some people start to look for the grail, which they think is an artifact!! and finding this they believe they will get eternal life!?
But,..what does Jesus says about eternal life?....Does he say go look for an artifact?! No, he tell you to follow his teaching in order to receive eternal life.
This mean -to follow his teaching...is same as looking for the grail, and when you reach salvation, you have found the grail. Easy, isn it?

[CDN_Merlin]

I agree Leon. They are all myths. Why do people not believe in Greek Mythology, because it's just a myth.

[Foil]

Whoa, slow down guys.

It's one thing to debate the validity of these \"Noah's Ark\" claims.

It's quite another to start bashing the entire Judeo-Christian belief system.

Let's keep this on-topic.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Is there any people that believe those storys in the Bible actually happend in real life?!!

I do.

Take the holy grail. If you find the holy grail you will get eternal life, right?

The legend of the Holy Grail is not taken from the scripture. It's absurd to believe that anything associated with Christ (in this case a cup that caught Christ's blood, supposedly... as he hung, dead on the cross?) should offer a path to salvation outside of that outlined by Christ himself as the only way.

[Duper]

The holy grail, if you read the story, is a metaphor about the new life that is found in Christ's death.

Leon, you're a minority.
The flood story is in nearly every culture around the world.

Sry Cuda, i haven't had time to look over your link. I was working on my box all night last night. I'll check it out at lunch.

[AlphaDoG]

The old testament is a collection of stories that relate real life events in metaphors and symbols. For example take the serpent that convinced Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. God commanded mankind not to partake of the fruit, however no where does it say he commanded the animals NOT to.

God also gave mankind freewill, so perhaps Eve watched the serpent eat the fruit for days even months to observe if any dire consequences befell the serpent. Seeing no ill effect on the serpent she convinces herself and her mate to eat the fruit.

Now concerning \"The Flood\"
There is proof. In three ways.

1) Every culture on earth has stories about a \"flood\" of some kind, with one man and his family being saved by a boat or raft (even Eskimos). Many are several thousand years old or more, some dating back to the time of the fertile crescent.

2) In every corner of the planet you can find, scattered here and there, a layer of strata that can only be fine mud or silt (even found under the Antarctica ice sheet). It contains the same types of elements all over the world and it represents the dividing line between the age of the dinosaurs and the age of mammals. Scientists all over the world recognize this layer, but disagree on what caused it. Forty days and nights of standing muddy water?

3) The earth is criss crossed with ancient river beds, some over ten miles wide. Where did they come from? Where did they go? Near Vernal Utah you can stand and look at one such ancient river bed. It stands near vertical due to upheaval in the earths crust and contains virtually every species of animal, including dinosaurs and fossilized palm trees and wood, fish, turtles, birds, etc. How did they all die and get deposited together in one huge sand bar? Receeding flood waters?

[LEON]

Whoa, slow down guys.

It's one thing to debate the validity of these "Noah's Ark" claims.

It's quite another to start bashing the entire Judeo-Christian belief system.

Let's keep this on-topic.

Well....I think going from claims to found Noahs ark to discuss Christianety, or if the Bible is right or wrong is quite short, dont you think?

Im not sure what "bashing" means, but i would asume its somthing bad. So,,...in this meaning I dont "bashing" anything.
Actually I consider Jesus to be my Master and Lord, though I dont consider myself christian because I can't follow his teaching.
My view on the Bible as myths doesnt mean I think the Bible is wrong. I dont think the storys actually happend. The storys are there to make us understand ourself, the world and our connection to God.

I have found some great pleasure in study the understanding of religious tales.

I actually dont like to discuss things like this. It's too easy to talk over each others head. But sometimes i cant resist the temtation

[snoopy]

Heh, I saw specials on this 20 years ago. It's the same story every time:

.....

Honestly, it's beginning to look more and more like these organizations are playing on folk who are willing to donate to their cause.

I tend to agree.

Here's how I'd summarize my take generally on these sorts of discoveries:

It does have interesting archeological implications, if you're into archeology.

It has absolutely zero spiritual significance. Letting some discovery have a long-term effect on your spirituality would be making an idol out of the object discovered, which is Biblically prohibited.

As a result, the only reason it should have an effect on my life (and the way that I use my money) is for its archeological value.

EDIT:

I was thinking about this on the context of visiting Israel. People talk about how they saw this and that in Israel where Jesus put his hand and where Jesus was buried, etc. etc. I tend to be skeptical about it all. First, I think that 99% of it was just made up along the way to make a buck or two. Second, I don't see it changing the truth of the Bible or how it relates to me, because Christian faith isn't about objects and places, it's about relationship with God.

[Bet51987]

.

[CUDA]

Actually I consider Jesus to be my Master and Lord, though I dont consider myself christian because I can't follow his teaching.

WAHHHHH?!?!?!!?!

you consider Jesus your Lord and Master, BUT you dont follow his teachings. no confusion here.

My view on the Bible as myths doesnt mean I think the Bible is wrong. I dont think the storys actually happend.

WAHHHHH???? x2
either the stories are true or they are Myths they cannot be both. I suggest you read a book called "the Bible as History" by Werner Keller. it might clear things up for you a little more. the Bible is a book of history. in fact it has been proven to be the most accurate book of history ever.

[Isaac]

They have trees throughout the bible and history shows they had trees back in those days: proof.

[Grendel]

3) The earth is criss crossed with ancient river beds, some over ten miles wide. Where did they come from? Where did they go?

You got it all mixed up. Humans originate from Mars. That's where Noah build the ship (a spaceship actually) Want proof ? Just grab a telescope and take a look at Mars. It's criss crossed with ancient river beds, some over ten miles wide..

Near Vernal Utah you can stand and look at one such ancient river bed.

You know, water was present on this planet billions of years ago. Seems like enough time to have some "ancient" river beds around, don't you think ?

[Grendel]

Damn board's DB must be hosed again, can't edit my post. Here's an addendum:

1) Every culture on earth has stories about a "flood" of some kind, with one man and his family being saved by a boat or raft (even Eskimos). Many are several thousand years old or more, some dating back to the time of the fertile crescent.

Yes. So ? Just take something like the 2004 tsunami. 200,000 dead. Now set that scenario back 5000 or more years, how do you think people at that time would have dealt w/ it ? Would be the origin of some neat stories I bet.

[Duper]

Very interesting article! They mention the find that Foil and I refer to in. 87 would be about right.

Doesn't sound like they're making this up. Nice find Cuda! Thanks!

Film Here.

[Will Robinson]

The old testament is a collection of stories that relate real life events in metaphors and symbols. For example take the serpent that convinced Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. God commanded mankind not to partake of the fruit, however no where does it say he commanded the animals NOT to.

God also gave mankind freewill, so perhaps Eve watched the serpent eat the fruit for days even months to observe if any dire consequences befell the serpent. Seeing no ill effect on the serpent she convinces herself and her mate to eat the fruit. ...

We need to check the school curriculum from the Garden of Eden schools because maybe Eve was taught evolution which led her to believe she was just an advanced mammal and therefore she would be able to eat the fruit too...
Friken non-believers screwed everything up from the start! I could be chilling in the garden right now watching Jimi lay down some sweet tunes but Nnnooooo....

[LEON]

Actually I consider Jesus to be my Master and Lord, though I dont consider myself christian because I can't follow his teaching.

WAHHHHH?!?!?!!?!

you consider Jesus your Lord and Master, BUT you dont follow his teachings. no confusion here..

Im not christian....I try to be a christian. Big difference.
Even Jesus himself says how few who actually can follow his teaching and have a steady walk towards salvation. (sorry, I cant quote directly. I have a christian friend, I can ask him)
Even Jesus own disiples bailed out when he was arrested. They had apparently more love for their earthly life than their spiritual life teached to them by Jesus.
So who am I to claim to be a christian who would choose Jesus if my life had been in danger?

My view on the Bible as myths doesnt mean I think the Bible is wrong. I dont think the storys actually happend.

WAHHHHH???? x2
either the stories are true or they are Myths they cannot be both. I suggest you read a book called "the Bible as History" by Werner Keller. it might clear things up for you a little more. the Bible is a book of history. in fact it has been proven to be the most accurate book of history ever.

The message of the stories are true, not that the events actually happened.
Theres a lot of 'once up on a time....' stories that did not take place but have some knowledge of life. It's like when you ask a sensei on something, and he answer by telling a storie. Because life is too complex the sensei simplifies the topic by telling a fictional story.
I have no doubt that there are historical facts in the Bible, but stories about Jesus cure blind people i dont believe in. Since 'blind' in religious terms means 'those who can't see the truth' I believe those stories are about how Jesus gave them knowlede to see the truth.
Same with Jesus waking up dead people, since we are consider dead in this world, he enlighting us with knowlede of life, and encourage us to choose life. Thus 'waking up dead people'

[CUDA]

Even Jesus own disiples bailed out when he was arrested. They had apparently more love for their earthly life than their spiritual life teached to them by Jesus.
So who am I to claim to be a christian who would choose Jesus if my life had been in danger?

yes they did. before they understood. you might wish to read up on how the Apsotles died once they understood

Peter - widely believed to have been either beheaded or crucified (upside down) in Rome.

Matthew - arrested in Ethiopia and there nailed to the ground with short spears and beheaded.

John - John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in a huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos. The Apostle John was later freed and returned to what is now modern-day Turkey. He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.

James, the brother of Jesus (not officially an apostle) - thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat him to death with a club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the temptation.

Bartholomew, also know as Nathanael - a missionary to Asia, he witnessed in present-day Turkey and was martyred for his preaching in Armenia, when he was flayed to death by a whip.

Andrew - was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Greece.

Thomas - stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church there.

Matthias (the apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot) - stoned and then beheaded.

Paul - tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67.

There are traditions regarding the other apostles as well, but none with any reliable historical or traditional support.

St. James (son of Zebedee) was beheaded by King Herod in Palestine.

St. Philip was crucified.

St. James the Less (son of Aphaeus) was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple at Jerusalem and dispatched with a club where he fell, or crucified or stoned.

St. Simon was crucified.

but stories about Jesus cure blind people i dont believe in. Since 'blind' in religious terms means 'those who can't see the truth' I believe those stories are about how Jesus gave them knowlede to see the truth.

Christs actions were not parables. his action were fulfilling old testament prophcies. however Christ did speak in parables. but any "story" of his actions is documentation not a parable

[Xamindar]

I love how LEON threw a nuke in this thread.

[CUDA]

thats ok still a topic about the Bible

[Tunnelcat]

This is just plain nonsense. There is no evidence anywhere for a worldwide flood of that magnitude and no evidence anywhere on the planet showing a common fossil layer. Washouts and ground upheavals can cause deposits to move around but those are local disturbances and are insignificant.

Bee

Actually, there is evidence of a massive flood that took place circa 5600 BC that occurred near the ancient Biblical region and it would have influenced the local population it was so large in scope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/

This doesn't cover the whole earth, but it did directly affect the Middle East/Turkey region and this may have influenced those who wrote the Bible.

[Heretic]

The scientist that was God created man. Who he named Adam then the scientist took a part of Adam and clone and manipulate the genes to create Eve. So Adam Made love to himself and caused all of mans problems by reproducing with himself. So that is why the world is full of mentally challenge people wanting to do violence to each other. This is also why man will never be at peace and the world will tear itself apart.

[CUDA]

The scientist that was God created man. Who he named Adam then the scientist took a part of Adam and clone and manipulate the genes to create Eve. So Adam Made love to himself and caused all of mans problems by reproducing with himself. So that is why the world is full of mentally challenge people wanting to do violence to each other. This is also why man will never be at peace and the world will tear itself apart.

[AlphaDoG]

The scientist that was God created man. Who he named Adam then the scientist took a part of Adam and clone and manipulate the genes to create Eve. So Adam Made love to himself and caused all of mans problems by reproducing with himself. So that is why the world is full of mentally challenge people wanting to do violence to each other. This is also why man will never be at peace and the world will tear itself apart.

Allow me to add the sound effects:

Cuckoo, cuckoo!

[Heretic]

The scientist that was God created man. Who he named Adam then the scientist took a part of Adam and clone and manipulate the genes to create Eve. So Adam Made love to himself and caused all of mans problems by reproducing with himself. So that is why the world is full of mentally challenge people wanting to do violence to each other. This is also why man will never be at peace and the world will tear itself apart.

Allow me to add the sound effects:

Cuckoo, cuckoo!

Yes I know it's the same as if some claims to be a Christian but doesn't follow the teachings of Christ and says the events in the bible didn't happen. Besides don't you know what Heretic means?

[CUDA]

Yes I know it's the same as if some claims to be a Christian but doesn't follow the teachings of Christ and says the events in the bible didn't happen.

yes you would be correct in that statement

Besides don't you know what Heretic means?

do you wish to test me on that statement?

[Duper]

n/m