LEON wrote:Even Jesus himself says how few who actually can follow his teaching and have a steady walk towards salvation.
Just adding one point here. You are absolutely correct that, with the exception of Christ himself, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE fails at working towards salvation. We can't do it because even if we can change our outward behavior, we can't change who we ARE on the inside.
So, actually, you ARE on the right path. Sortof. Works can't get you to salvation. Christian doctrine is that the ONLY path to salvation is to recognize that you can NOT follow Jesus' teachings on your own, accept Jesus as Lord of your life, AND then let HIM make changes inside you that will turn you into the kind of person who doesn't even WANT to sin.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Faith alone will not get you salvation either.
CUDA wrote:Do you wish to test me on that statement.
This is the one definition you should worry about with me.
her·e·tic (hěr'ĭ-tĭk)
n. A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
CUDA wrote:Do you wish to test me on that statement.
This is the one definition you should worry about with me.
her·e·tic (hěr'ĭ-tĭk)
n. A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
why should I worry about that?? I dont agree with the Catholics either
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I don't know who wrote those definitions. I might be able to do better myself.
Has the word 'heretic' been unique to Christianity? I would say a heretic is someone who, while ostensibly part of the church, holds beliefs that undermine the main tenants of the faith. To be more specific, I think it's accurate to say that heretical views always amount to a erroneous portrayal of the person of Jesus Christ.
->So Catholics are heretics inasmuch as they don't believe that Jesus is the only mediator between God and men.
->Christians who don't believe Jesus was God are heretics.
->Christians who don't believe that Jesus was a man are also heretics.
Will Robinson wrote:I feel like I just passed a road sign that says:
Religion - ahead 1 mi.
Salvation - you can't get there from here.
actually the sign says
Religion - ahead 1 mi
Salvation - next exit
Salvation is VERY easy
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yes, it is easy. If you believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died on that cross to pay for your sins, then you will go to heaven no matter what sins you committed in this life. This doesn't mean you can play the game of living a bad life then at the last minute repenting because your repentance would be fake. But on the otherhand if you did lead a bad life but then truly found Christ you will be saved.
This is why heaven will be full of murderers, rapists and child killers along with good people and Hell will be full of murderers, rapists and child killers along with good people.
Bettina
Because sin is only against God. It is His to know the true heart of an individual when they come seeking forgiveness. So heaven is full of forgiven murders, rapists and child killers and NO good people. While some never do horrific crimes, the sins we commit are just as putrid to God. There are no "good people" in heaven, only adopted children.
The Bible tells us that we have ALL sinned and don't measure up to God's standard.
Bet51987 wrote:This is why heaven will be full of FORGIVEN murderers, rapists and child killers along with good people and Hell will be full of UNFORGIVEN murderers, rapists and child killers along with good people.
Acts 16:31 KJV wrote:And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
simplicity in action. that path taken is irrelevant
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The Bible talks about the remnant of God. The remaining group of Israelites who survived the Babylonian holocaust and came back to reform Israel. Abraham was saved because he believed God. We see this in the Hall of faith in Hebrews. So we can presume God saved them because He is telling us how pleased he is with their actions.
A lot of people don’t realize that Jesus was in the OT. He was the manifestation of God on earth even then. It is often referred to as a theophany. Here are some likely appearances of Christ in the OT.
Adam (Genesis Chapter 3 verse
Abraham (Genesis 17:1-4, 9-10, 15-16, 22; Genesis 18:1-3, 10)
Jacob (Genesis 32:24-30)
Moses (Exodus 3:2-6)
Joshua (Joshua 5:13-15)
Daniel (Daniel 3:22-25)
The point is what happened to them. It is thought that they perhaps went into a holding tank in Sheol and Jesus went to get them while He was in the tomb. The Bible says that He descended into the bowels of the earth.
The pricetag of the fall was separation from God. And if you read the Bible carefully, it chronicles a long list of sins that compounded over time - to be a lifestyle even liberals could cringe at. Rape, incest, wanton disregard for the property of others. All because one man chose to disobey.
So fair would be for God to let all of us die - just as He promised. But instead, He choose to save some - those whom He choose - who He would use to fulfill His plan of redemption. And whosoever believes in me (Jesus) will not have eternal life separated from me (Jesus) - but will have eternal life with him (Jesus).
It's never good to wake up in the shrubs naked, you either got way too drunk, or your azz is a werewolf.
Bet51987 wrote:This is just plain nonsense. There is no evidence anywhere for a worldwide flood of that magnitude and no evidence anywhere on the planet showing a common fossil layer. Washouts and ground upheavals can cause deposits to move around but those are local disturbances and are insignificant.
Bee
Actually, there is evidence of a massive flood that took place circa 5600 BC that occurred near the ancient Biblical region and it would have influenced the local population it was so large in scope.
if this is all nonsense, then how does a sphere (or a nearly round rock for that matter) have four corners (Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1) or an end (Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11)? you would think a flat round earth didn't either, though.
Flatlander wrote:Just leave 'em in their warm fuzzy delusion, they ain't gonna wake up.
Glad you had something constructive to add to the discussion
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
it is funny how people say there is no evidence of a world wide flood, yet you can collect sea shells on top of nearly any mountain top on our planet.... but lets look at something else related to the flood, many people try and say there aint enought water on our little planet to cover everything.... such people really have no imagination nor look at all the evidence....
anyone got google earth? put in w25deg/n32deg. this should put you in the medeira plain just east of the cruiser Tablemount..... Im throwing a gauntlet down here....
ANYONE who doubts the existance of a global flood, i'd like a explination of the city that measures 75 miles by 105 miles sitting on the floor of the ocean right here for all to see.... and this only the main part, look to the right and there appears to be more, stretching out for an additional 400 miles.... nearly to the coast of africa... her is a link with a pic.... notice that every time a city is found on the ocean floor people call it \"atlantis\" even if it is found in the pacific....
ok, so hereit is.... how did all these cities get built on the BOTTOM of the ocean floor?
As for me, the Bible gives me a really good clue... When God originally engineered the planet, he put water around the planet(which made the atmosphere much thicker) and water under the earth, there were originally NO OCEANS and according to the apostles... no rain... the earth was aparently watered by some other means.
The Creation museum here in Cincinnati goes over the science behind how the earth could have been set up this way originally, and how during the flood the water pushed the newly formed ocean floor down and the land masses up forming new dry land after the flood....
The apostle Peter once wrote
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they WILLFULLY FORGET: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
my guess is if people want to continue to willfully forget, and ignore real science and real evidence... its thier own funeral...
GRRRRRRRRRRRR. I love it. More weapons for the arsenal and an evener readier defense. Thanks Teddy. I did not know this. I did know that the atmosphere changed and lifespans decreased, and that the Earth was watered by dew before the flood, but not these undeniable, seen with my own eyes, cities on the ocean floor.
I don't recall the bible saying there were no oceans.
I've also heard a theory that says that the atmosphere was like 3 times denser and a whole lot more oxygen. They took this from the size of fossilized plants.
*shrug*
and for a derail, did you know they found several pyramids in Boznia?
I don't recall the bible saying there were no oceans.
Ok in my excitement I didn't mean to agree with this. It does say in the beginning God created the waters above and the waters below. I do take that to mean that there were oceans. It also says he separated the water from the dry land and set boundaries for the waters. It says the earth was watered from a mist in the mornings and the evenings. By hey Duper, there are cities on the ocean floor
Teddy wrote:lets throw a few more logs on the fire....
I rather throw water on those logs to save the church.
the church can stand on its own. it doesnt need you to save it.
There was no biblical global flood and any reputable scientist will tell you that. Plate tectonics have created mountains where land was once flat, and oceans where mountains once stood. Find a fish fossil on a mountain? Makes scientific sense.
are you sure?? the Bible is not specific as to the size of the flood. it says
For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, Gen 6:17
then there is this
Marine Team Finds Surprising Evidence Supporting A Great Biblical Flood
the evidence supporting a flood is overwhelming. not just in science but it is recorded in every major religion around the world.
When theists make up ridiculous stories to support the ridiculous parts of the bible then smart kids are going to turn away from the church and that would be a sad day.
Bee
Bee you are such a contradiction to yourself. with your left hand you proudly proclaim the be an athiest. with your right hand you say it will be a shame to turn people away from the Church and somewhere in the middle you believe some parts of the Bible, but ONLY the parts you feel comfortable with. the Bible warns you against this in Timothy
"Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things..." 2 Timothy 4:2-5
you CANNOT pick and chose what to believe in the Bible. now there are theoligial debates about how to interperet certain passages. but the belief in those passages must remain.
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you." Deuteronomy 4:2
"...if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:9-10
"For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it!" 2 Corinthians 11:4 [I.e. don't tolerate heresy]
"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it." Deuteronomy 12:32
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5-6
"If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19
I sincerely hope that most of you aren't responsible for teaching your children the scientific method, or our country will be even more boned in that regard than it already is. Some of the statements being made in here...dear lord. Go read a friggin' textbook, guys.
Top Gun wrote:I sincerely hope that most of you aren't responsible for teaching your children the scientific method, or our country will be even more boned in that regard than it already is. Some of the statements being made in here...dear lord. Go read a friggin' textbook, guys.
some specifics would be nice. shooting in the dark does no one any good and adds nothing to the discussion.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Top Gun wrote:I sincerely hope that most of you aren't responsible for teaching your children the scientific method, or our country will be even more boned in that regard than it already is. Some of the statements being made in here...dear lord. Go read a friggin' textbook, guys.
some specifics would be nice. shooting in the dark does no one any good and adds nothing to the discussion.
Yes that is true. Which text books does the unemployed person recommend?
Sorry Duper and flip, i didnt finish my thought there.... i ment to say there were no oceans in existance LIKE what we have today.... as in the ocean is a few miles deep taking up 3/4 of the surface of the planet....
I'm sure there were body's of water, didnt mean to cause confusion...
Bett, as far as googles statement, Have you double checked any other sources that have mapped out the ocean floor? I would guess not.... you just saw someone cast doubt and bought it, hook line and sinker without checking out if this google spokes man was full of it..
There are more then one source you can check with to see if the grid like \"error\" is an anomolie or if it is really there..... the question you should be asking is..... why is it when the ocean floor was mapped out that the \"anomilie\" only showed up in one area of the entire ocean floor, if this was truly a byproduct of the equipment that was used?
and of course you are dancing around the fact that there are quite a few photos, satalite scans and high resolution sonar scans of other cities other than the one discovered on google earth.... I guess some people find it soooo easy to throw all the evidence in the trash instead of actually weighing the evidience and making sure they arnt being sold down the river with the theory they have been taught...
you talk about reputable scientist, however, if you watch the movie \"expelled - No intelegence allowed\" you will clearly see quite a number of very reputable scientist in thier fields, loose thier reputations and are forever blackballed from thier fields when they publish evidence that supports either Noah's flood or creation.... This is the problem in a nut shell, you have a core of brainless idiots running every field of science into the ground.... just because they themselves want to ignore true evidence, and deny any possability that God might exist...
I don't recall the bible saying there were no oceans.
By hey Duper, there are cities on the ocean floor
true enough! Most were sunk due to recent geological activity. That has happened all over the Mediterranean. I know there are other sites however, that they have no clue where they came from.
Problem there TG is that most text books are written and published by special interest groups. Many (if not most) are actively trying their best to push God our of our culture.
Incidentally, Pascal was a very devoted Christian.
Top Gun wrote:I sincerely hope that most of you aren't responsible for teaching your children the scientific method, or our country will be even more boned in that regard than it already is. Some of the statements being made in here...dear lord. Go read a friggin' textbook, guys.
some specifics would be nice. shooting in the dark does no one any good and adds nothing to the discussion.
Well, let's just start with the idea that finding fossils of sea life on a mountaintop means that said mountaintop was once covered by a world-encompassing ocean. This is a pseudo-scientific concept that was debunked more than a century ago...so please explain to me how someone can possibly be using it as the tenet of an argument in today's world. It'd be a pretty hard sell for me to buy someone claiming complete ignorance of geologic upheaval.
Duper wrote:
Top Gun wrote: Go read a friggin' textbook, guys.
Problem there TG is that most text books are written and published by special interest groups. Many (if not most) are actively trying their best to push God our of our culture.
C'mon, Duper, don't buy into that Kool-Aid. I know you're smarter than that. Scientific inquiry, as practiced in its true form, has no agenda beyond the further understanding of our universe. The concepts that would be covered in textbooks at the grade-school and high-school level are based on scientific principles that have been tested and experimented on for, quite literally, centuries. There's no "special interest" behind instruction about the fossil record, or geologic evidence of the Earth's past, or the process of natural selection, or the workings of gravity, or anything along those lines. It's an examination of the universe we live in, no matter how you believe that universe was originally created. God isn't getting pushed anywhere...and in fact, there's no reason whatsoever that religious faith and science have to have anything resembling an adversarial relationship.
Really, if there's anyone you should truly fear, it's the layperson members of Texas school boards whose whims decide what does and doesn't get published in the books our kids will be using for the next ten years. I've seen video of one particularly brilliant moment where a woman stated that schoolchildren shouldn't learn about Archbishop Oscar Romero because, and I quote, "No one really knows who he was"...and the school board voted in favor of her proposed removal of him. And there's also the gem of the board determining, for whatever reason, that Thomas Jefferson's writings weren't worthy of being included as important cornerstones of the foundation of our system of government. It's enough to make one's brain bleed.
Bee wrote: There was no biblical global flood and any reputable scientist will tell you that. Plate tectonics have created mountains where land was once flat, and oceans where mountains once stood. Find a fish fossil on a mountain? Makes
scientific sense.
are you sure?? the Bible is not specific as to the size of the flood. it says
For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, Gen 6:17
Genesis 7:18 through Genesis 7:24...
---The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters. And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all mankind. Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark. And the waters
prevailed on the earth 150 days.---
This makes it pretty explicit that except for what was aboard the ark, every single lifeform died at the same time during the period of 150 days and there is no place on this earth of a fossil layer of that magnitude.
CUDA wrote:.. then there is this
Marine Team Finds Surprising Evidence Supporting A Great Biblical Flood
the evidence supporting a flood is overwhelming. not just in science but it is recorded in every major religion around the world.
An excerpt from your link...
..."There was no doubt that it was a fast flood -- one that covered an expanse four times the size of Israel. It might not have been Noah, as it is written in the Bible, but we believe people in that region had to build boats in order to save their animals from drowning. We think that the ones who survived were fishermen -- they already had the boats."
Four times the size of Israel is not the flood described in Genesis, and fisherman in several boats contradict what is written that ALL living things died except for Noah, his wife and children, and the animals aboard the ark.
Bee
ok we have 2 conversations going on here so I'll break this into 2 seperate posts.
again we have some lost in translation going on here. "face of the earth" could mean exactly that, that the waters covered the entire planet. but it might notmean that either. you need to go back to the original laanguage.
From the reading of the Genesis account of the Flood in the English translation it would seem that it was worldwide in scope if we take the passages involved strictly literally. Various passages tell us that life was to be destroyed from the face of the "earth" (Genesis 7:12), the waters were on the face of the whole "earth" (Genesis 8:9), etc.
When these passages were written it would be hard to believe they were made with the understanding of a global planet. We have to recall that it was not much more than 500 years ago that people believed the "earth" was flat. The word "earth" used in these passages of Genesis is the Hebrew word "erets" (Strong's O.T.#776). Erets does not actually carry any connotation of a global, spherical planet in its translation. While it has been translated as "earth" many times, it is also translated "country" 140 times, "land" 1,476 times, and "ground" 96 times in the Old Testament. In the various references to erets it can be shown it is most often used to infer a limited land area rather than the entire planet.
The people living at the time of Moses had no concept of our global planet as we do today. The earth or erets to them would have been the extent of the geographical land area that they knew existed. It thus would not mean the planet, and to apply this literal meaning throughout the Bible causes some real and obvious problems.
For example, when Cain was cursed by God, he was driven "from the face of the earth" (Genesis 4:14). Yet it is clear that he remained "in the earth" as a fugitive. Cain was driven out of a limited land area, not from the planet.
After God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah one of Lot's daughters stated,
"there is not a man in the earth (erets) to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth (erets)" - (Genesis 19:31).
She could not have meant that there were no men anywhere on planet earth for we know that there obviously were. Rather, she was saying that "there is not a man in erets" or in the land area they were in (the area of Sodom) for they were all destroyed there.
When God had told Abraham,
"Get thee out of thy country (erets) ... unto a land (erets) that I will show thee" - (Genesis 12:1),
He did not mean for Abraham to leave the earth and go to another earth or planet. The word erets was referring to a limited land area just as it was in Genesis 7:10 - "the waters of the flood were upon the erets" or upon the land.
now I tend to believe that it was a global flood, again as I stated there is too much evidence to support the fact. if you would like and I will do it. I'll find more documentation to support my beliefs but since it is 2:45 am here I'm not exactly feeling up to it at the moment.
ok I'm trying to understand so my comments are not to poke you in the eye, so figive me if it come acress that way.
Bee wrote:On the left hand I'm an atheist. I'm not proud to be one I'm just someone who doesn't believe what you believe. On the right hand I'm a Christian
WOW where to start
you cannot be both an athiest and a Christian. it is not possible. by definition an atheist is a person who denies the existance of God. While a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. a man who claimed to be God.
and I have an enormous respect for the church because I believe the majority of people in this world, whether singularly or collectively, need a place to seek hope,
hope in what?? the church "should" be a place where by the teachings of Christ according the the Bible there is hope. because if the Bible is a lie there all hope is lost you are just a liar and a con-man.
or a place to pray for those whom they've lost.
who are you praying to? by your own admission you do not believe in the God of the Bible, so you cannot be praying to him. and as I already stated Christ claimed to be that God. and if he isnt then you are just praying to a man and what good will that get you because it is just another lie.
I believe and follow the moral teachings of Jesus Christ and I believe in the humanism of His church.
Humanism:
any system or mode of thought or action in which human interests, values, and dignity predominate
so you believe in Christs way of life, but you also admit he is a liar???
In the middle I believe that the truly ignorant people who cling to implausible bible entries that oppose highly credible scientific findings, to be destructive to the church and to force these entries into the classroom, a detriment to the truth.
study, study, study, there are two books you should read that might shed a little more light on the subject for you.
"The stones cry out". by Randall Price
"The Bible as history" by Werner Keller
you will find that there is MUCH more fact in the Bible than you are willing to admit
Aztec mythology Coxcox and wife survived a great flood
Toltecs, told of a great flood.
Greek legend tells us that Zeus flooded the earth.
China a people known as the Nosu tell of a great flood.
The Iban people of Sarawak tell of a great flood. Where Trow who floated around in an ark with his wife and numerous domestic animals.
Natives from India speak of a great flood and a man named Manu who built an ark that landed on a mountain.
The Gilgamesh Epic, one of the oldest written stories on twelve stone tablets, speaks of a person who was granted eternal life because he saved a boatload of animals and humans during a great flood.
All these stories were written long before any missionary could tell the account of Noah's Flood to the people of different lands and cultures.
There are well over 200 or more flood legends that tell of a great flood from around the world. All from different peoples and lands. Yet people still find different reasons to dismiss these stories
But, I thought the intention was to kill everybody? (except Noah and family) Way too many survivors to be the flood described in the bible, unless god missed a lot of people.
Well if you read the legends there is only a wife and husband family and animals. Noah should haved live another 350 years after the flood. Then you got to account for the Tower of Babel when god told Noah and family go forth and repopulate the earth. Which they didn't. Instead the built great cities and the Tower of Bable. So he confound their langauge which made the people to dirfted apart because of the langauge barriers.
Even with that all said some will go ahead and mock the stories. Until some thing happens that will make them believe. Like the second coming of Christ. When that happens it will be to late for them.
Luke 16:19-31
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead
I would be more willing to believe these stories were handed down from Noah, rather than different floods, if more of the stories (Bible) were also passed along with those, in a consistent way.
All cultures around the world (or most) have some sort of flood or creation story, some are very similar to the Bible’s.
I have always imagined the similarities between the creation myths being related to man’s intuitions regarding where life came from. IE: the mud
The flood…who knows.
…………………………
The problem with having to take the Bible as literal truth, with no exceptions…well I’m sorry to say…but it has to be nothing, when given that choice.
Works can't get you to salvation. Christian doctrine is that the ONLY path to salvation is to recognize that you can NOT follow Jesus' teachings on your own, accept Jesus as Lord of your life, AND then let HIM make changes inside you that will turn you into the kind of person who doesn't even WANT to sin.
