Altering Descent

[Zigurat]

You see I really like all the descent series , but sometimes I find some detail that I dislike about it and I think: 'I wonder what was the programmer of this [Descent/Descent 2/Descent 3] when he/she put this in the game dammit! I wish I could change it, but I do not program games...
For example: in Descent 3 the bang of the mega missile is so soft and insulting (since you cannot carry many of these), and the omega cannon's reach is so SHORT... anyway.
I wonder if there's a way to alter things, like (for example) switching the bang of the impact mortar with the mega missile

[Sergeant Thorne]

Switching the bang wouldn't be too hard.

As far as the Omega cannon goes, I think a bit of re-imagining, if anything, would be the ticket. It wouldn't do to take the present cannon and increase the reach... frankly I wouldn't need the reach to be increased, myself... I can do plenty of damage. Really though its primary fault, and the one that needs to be dealt with before anything else is contemplated, is that it is unfair due to its performance being relative to frame-rate. Take that away and people would actually start using it, and then you could go from there. It's not really fair to critique a weapon that descenters haven't even begun to use.

Finally, though, the problem you'll run into in wanting to make these changes is that there would need to be a precedent for everyone who plays the game having them (I believe everyone can see the Black Pyro, for instance, even if they can't play it, because the info for it was included in one of the official game patches. Outside of a darn good, and even official, precedent, you're pretty much stuck making your changes in a mission or level scope, which has the disadvantage of standing out in comparison with all of the other levels; whether for better or for worse it forces people to play Descent differently on a temporary basis, which has the potential to be a little awkward.

[Zigurat]

Switching the bang wouldn't be too hard.

As far as the Omega cannon goes, I think a bit of re-imagining, if anything, would be the ticket. It wouldn't do to take the present cannon and increase the reach... frankly I wouldn't need the reach to be increased, myself... I can do plenty of damage. Really though its primary fault, and the one that needs to be dealt with before anything else is contemplated, is that it is unfair due to its performance being relative to frame-rate. Take that away and people would actually start using it, and then you could go from there. It's not really fair to critique a weapon that descenters haven't even begun to use.

Finally, though, the problem you'll run into in wanting to make these changes is that there would need to be a precedent for everyone who plays the game having them (I believe everyone can see the Black Pyro, for instance, even if they can't play it, because the info for it was included in one of the official game patches. Outside of a darn good, and even official, precedent, you're pretty much stuck making your changes in a mission or level scope, which has the disadvantage of standing out in comparison with all of the other levels; whether for better or for worse it forces people to play Descent differently on a temporary basis, which has the potential to be a little awkward.

...Well, I didn´t undestand it all that you wrote here.

But you said that the bangs can be switched. REALLY?!??, HOW?? (for example, making the concusion rockets explode like impact mortars). 'I wonder what were the programers thinking, the mega missile should have THE SUPREME bang, only equalled or surpassed by the black shark!'

I don´t mean to be a party pooper, I really like the descent anyway, despite all this (I mean, all games have something that we like to change in my experience). But wouldn't it be awesome to be able to sculpt a game to our taste (slightly), not because it would need to, but because it could be (again, slightly) molded to our very personal fancy, wether by considering something a small mistake or just something that not being an error could be a little better. That would reflect our individual point of view (hence I LOVE level editors and map builders in games).

[Krom]

Switching a explosion sound is as easy as finding a PCM .wav file with the sound you want, dropping it into your D3 directory renamed to the same name as the explosion.wav file in the D3 hog that you wish to replace.

[Zigurat]

Switching a explosion sound is as easy as finding a PCM .wav file with the sound you want, dropping it into your D3 directory renamed to the same name as the explosion.wav file in the D3 hog that you wish to replace.

I don't want to switch the sounds, the sound is the last thing I'm interesting in. I want to switch the EXPLOSION (not its sound, but the bang itself). For example: (just example) I want to throw a concusion missile (a single one) and I want it to explode as it were an impact mortar. You know, displaying that huge circular red blast and pushing away nearby robots and killing several (actually I want to do this with the mega missile, not the concusion one).

[Krom]

That is possible also, but requires table modifications and prevents you from playing multiplayer games of course.

[Zigurat]

No multiplayer huh? ...Well, I guess I figured that and it's ok. Now, how do I do this 'table changes'?

[AlphaDoG]

gamtool would let you edit the table file, just don't ask me how to edit anything in there.

http://download.descent-network.com/too ... i/gamtool/

[Krom]

gamtool would let you edit the table file, just don't ask me how to edit anything in there.

http://download.descent-network.com/too ... i/gamtool/

He will also need hogview in order to extract the original table files to see what he is dealing with:
http://download.descent-network.com/des ... gview.w32/

[AceCombat]

man i have some wicked table files

[Descer]

Levels should be shorter and have no puzzles and robots take less hits to explode.

[Sirius]

The game isn't that hard...

[Duper]

The game isn't that hard...

No, it isn't. It's just that today's average shooter kills things in one or two hits with no team damage (or is optional). In short, today's game has become lazy with the pabulum that is called "Advanced gaming".

[Krom]

Actually I was just playing Shattered Horizons yesterday for the first time since its a feebe weekend on steam. For anyone that doesn't know its a 6dof FPS shooter using neutonian physics, where you are an astronaut with a couple guns.

Having to handle 6dof with a keyboard and a mouse is a big adjustment for me since I was a joystick user in Descent...However it was largely irrelevant since aside from hiding behind a rock or a wall for cover, movement is largely pointless in the game.

The primary skill you will require to play the game is point and click. Your player even with the lightest weapons accelerates about as quickly as a brick on a level surface. Combined with the presence of mouselook style turning any attempt at dodging is pointless beyond all imagination. Moving barely even holds an advantage over parking on a rock and emptying your clip in someones direction. The person with the better mouse, better aim and better latency will almost always come out on top. The only movement you have to worry about is finding the right place to camp so the enemy is forced to play whack-a-mole giving you a chance to reload.

Descent on the other hand is enormously about movement, close up or at a distance it is more then possible to twitch your ship to throw off the aim of even instant hit weapons like the MD and the Vauss which are also more difficult to handle because of the way ships physics work.

I pretty much dived into Shattered Horizons having not read the manual, not even looked at the controls, or even understood the bulk of what the interface was telling me and I was still able to handle it within seconds. I also got several rank promotions within the first few minutes of playing, which felt more like an artificial reward than anything. Yes it is very accessible to new players, but that is all it is. For people looking for a challenging and ultimately rewarding replacement to Descent, this is not it by a long shot.

Compared to modern games, Descent is incredibly HARD.

Now lets see if the forum software takes this post. And I'd better hope I don't have to edit it.

[Alter-Fox]

Levels should be shorter and have no puzzles and robots take less hits to explode.

I like the large levels... and although I agree that there were too many puzzles, I don't think they should all go. I like a challenge, as long as it isn't insanely hard.

As for the robots, I think a robot being killed in one or two hits takes the fun out of a battle, though D3 on the higher skill levels took this waaaay too far.

On the whole, I think you should download Descent Maximum and give it a spin... it seems that's exactly what you're looking for.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=324

[Duper]

yah know, Personally, I'd like to see D1 made over on a new engine and modernized, but leave the weapons the same damage scale wise and the like.

[Alter-Fox]

I want to see all the D1 levels rebuilt for D2X-XL like \"Lunar Outpost Reloaded\"... that would be an awesome mission.

And then do the D2 levels... and the Vertigo Series...

Yeah, this is never going to happen, but I can dream...[size]

[Aus-RED-5]

Lunar Outpost Reloaded was inspired from this: viewtopic.php?t=14844

I'm with Duper!

The above link just makes me wish for such a thing!

[Pandora]

yah know, Personally, I'd like to see D1 made over on a new engine and modernized, but leave the weapons the same damage scale wise and the like.

wouldn't that be great! They are doing remakes of every crap Hollywood movie, why don't they start with video games. There, it would *really* make sense to update them to the new technology.

[Alter-Fox]

I agree... it would be great to see someone port D1 to a better engine, but if a new Descent were to be made, I'd rather it be something completely new than a remake of the first game.

[Krom]

A D1 remake preserving the gameplay as much as possible with a major graphics/engine/netplay overhaul would be AWESOME. Someone should get started on it right away! If they want, with the guidance of a good art director I could probably help dress up some of the levels even.

(Too bad trademark/copyright hell would prevent any such product from taking off commercially.)

[Alter-Fox]

I mean I'd rather it be a mod than a full new game... if someone were to make a full new game it should be more like a D4.

[Duper]

The problem with that Fox is that a \"D4\" would most likely be a new installment further down the story line which would push the idea of \"new and different is gooderer and betterer\".

Much of what us oldtimers like is in Descent 1. No afterburners, only 10 weapons. ..not 20 and not use half...
There were fewer oneshot kills.

Krom was right: \"Compared to modern games, Descent is incredibly HARD!\"

It was hard back then, but something about it appealed to the geek in us.

[Alter-Fox]

OK... anyway D2X-XL is my D4.

[Duper]

yah know, Personally, I'd like to see D1 made over on a new engine and modernized, but leave the weapons the same damage scale wise and the like.

wouldn't that be great! They are doing remakes of every crap Hollywood movie, why don't they start with video games. There, it would *really* make sense to update them to the new technology.

Interesting thought. There have been 2 that I know of. there are probably more.

Doom 3 was a "reboot". And the new Mechwarrior that is presently in litegation is/will be a "reboot".

[Krom]

Challenging games are more rewarding (as long as it isn't fake difficulty).

[Thenior]

I don't think a remade Descent 1 would appeal to todays gamers. Though there is a niche of fans and gamers who like tough games, most of them just want to have fun. The like the \"easy to play, hard to master\" games.

Descent is hard to play, harder to master. You'd have to take something out of the equation to make it survive todays market. Some options would be limited sliding, structuring levels so they are more horizontal (so the player can get a better sense of direction), and even changing some of the dynamics of the weaponry.

Personally, I'd like to see the weapons be faster (aka. all gauss/vauss), and the ships fly faster.

[Krom]

But for a lot of us, easy games are boring and unrewarding. I know that I spend a lot more time playing the more difficult games I have then I spend playing the easy ones. And I don't think hardcore gamers are that small of a market, it's just that the mass market is more casual and games have taken on too many aspects from Hollywood (too big and too expensive to take risks).

[AlphaDoG]

Compared to modern games, Descent is incredibly HARD.

Now lets see if the forum software takes this post. And I'd better hope I don't have to edit it.

I agree!

[Sirius]

I think D1 pretty much had the ship speed right. Too fast and you're spending most of the time bouncing off walls, and nobody can hit you reliably except by crashing into you. Descent can be many things, but a 3D demolition derby shouldn't be one of them.

Too slow, of course (D2 sans burners) and it gets a bit tedious.

Anyway, what I would favour is actually a kind of \"remake\" of Descent 1 except with a different campaign. We don't need to see the same levels come back; no matter how much you dress them up graphically, you're still not going to get past the fact that they have too little conceptual variety to be interesting (a mine level is OK; 27 mine levels back-to-back really isn't), and the three keys + reactor system would be a farce.

Oh, and the robots were also designed for a low-polygon budget. When you have 100-150 polygons to play with, you have to do things in certain ways for the enemies to be visually distinctive and interesting. But scaling those same enemies up to 5000 polygons is going to result in designs that don't make much sense.

But it's difficult for me to dispute the suggestion that not much of the gameplay needs to change. No afterburner may seem a step backward, but it's not absolutely necessary, and ditching it actually makes the controls simpler. Less weapons means ... well, the real issue is the quality of those weapons. Neither Descent 2 nor Descent 3 did a very good job with providing a weapon lineup where everything had a reason to be there. Descent 1 may have had a couple flaws; the Mega missile is still too powerful to be used in credible competition, and the proximity bomb isn't really effective enough to for most people to remember to use it. But on the whole it was pretty respectable. The visual designs of those weapons might need an update - no matter how you dress the blobs up the Spreadfire is going to look a little silly these days - but the mechanics usually don't.

[Alter-Fox]

Spreadfire = Descent Shotgun?

[Duper]

Kinda. I hesitate at that only because it shoots 3 in a vertical line and then 3 in a horizontal line. .. or visa/versa. The blobs are nothing more than the class 1 drone's blobs as blue. I don't know what the damage factor is for either. But the S/F was kinda like the EMD or microwave gun, week and not well suited for general multiplayer brawling. it was always good for throwing someone off, but not very good at inflicting a lot of damage.

I never worried or greifed about the damage from the megas. Generally, they were sparce and easy to dodge. so I have no problem with it.

i kinda miss the random spawn of the powerups. It's an element you don't see any more. UT and Quake set the precident of fixed powerups. In D1, you never knew where you were going to find what you needed once the game began. It only needed to be fixed so they weren't spawning in inaccessable areas.

[Sirius]

The use of the Spreadfire lay in that it worked against some people who were otherwise hard to hit. It never was a mainstay weapon though. That said, the fusion wasn't in D1 either - people would use it, but usually only when they thought they could pull a fast one on their opponent.

[Duper]

I think it's fair to say that Plasma was/is the D1 weapon of choice. It hits hard and you can spam like crazy. Personally, I liked the Lv4 quads.

[Sirius]

Yeah, the Plasma was used by a lot of people. I'd always liked quad lasers slightly better too, though. But both were viable. As was the vulcan - didn't have the DPS and could run out of ammo if you relied on it too much, but it was pretty effective at putting some damage down.

[SirWinner]

Would have been fun to have the Mercury Missile in Descent 3... That was one extremely fast Missile.

[Duper]

Have to agree SW. The Napalm rocket moves about as fast, but the globs ... meh. However, the napalm is how I used to gauge gravity when I would make levels.

[Alter-Fox]

Would have been fun to have the Mercury Missile in Descent 3...

Definetely. Strangely, there was a robot in level 6 of D3 Retribution that had mercs (the nomad skiff).

At least you can get them with Pyromania...