The New XBox 360 debate.....

[[]V[]essenjah]

So.... right now I'm in a debate. A few years back, I bought an XBox Elite for $400. It died about a year ago, I tried to fix it but lost the serial code and couldn't. So, I bought an Arcade to replace it and threw on the old 120GB HDD. Then my new XBox was stolen! So, I tried to buy one when one of the local game shops went out of business but just missed it.

Then, I heard about the old consoles being replaced by the new consoles and there was a nice price drop. Wallmart was giving them away with a $50 gift card, which I could have used on groceries or a new HDD but the store was out and the on-line store is out. I came to find out that they are no longer selling any of the Arcades and once they are gone, they are gone!


My debate is this, I am getting married in 3 weeks, I have to pay rent for two places, buy a new suit, have cable installed at my new place and I work only part time so that I can go to school while my fiancee is working full time.

At $100 I could talk myself into it this month, especially if I could use the $50 for an HDD.


Apparently, the new XBox will be selling for a whopping $300 but apparently, it will have a $250GB HDD, wifi, and runs much cooler and requires less power than the original.

The old hard drives are a complete rip-off. $50 for a 20GB hard drive? You can get an 80GB HDD for $20 for a PC. The only difference is their firmware.

If they would release a $199 version with a $120 GB HDD and without the wifi I would actually go for it but $300 is a bit much to ask me to buy a 3rd time around.

Does anyone know if there will be another version of the New XBox released later this year?

[Duper]

Christmas is coming. You can bank on it. Maybe with blue-ray, but that's only a guess. It sounds like it would be wise to wait a couple of months, save a bit and then re-approach it once all the crazy blows over.
(congrats btw!!!!!)

[Aus-RED-5]

x2!

[Xamindar]

Save yourself all the trouble and proprietary addons and RRoD by getting a PS3 this time. And it doubles as a Blu-ray player.

[Jeff250]

True, I recently replaced the hard drive in my PS3 with an ordinary 2.5\" bought from Newegg.

[Sirius]

PS3 doesn't play 360 games though.

[snoopy]

This isn't so much a direct answer to your question, but more of a general suggestion in terms of finances:

Give yourself a \"me-stuff\" savings account that gets a fixed amount per month, one for each of you once you're married. Then, stuff like xboxes come from that account, and it helps you keep your extra spending down to what you can really afford, just don't let yourself cheat.

It will make you waste less money.... when you're talking about gift cards paying for groceries, I tend to question the purchase of any entertainment consoles. Make sure that you get your spending priorities straight.

[Duper]

This isn't so much a direct answer to your question, but more of a general suggestion in terms of finances:

Give yourself a "me-stuff" savings account that gets a fixed amount per month, one for each of you once you're married. Then, stuff like xboxes come from that account, and it helps you keep your extra spending down to what you can really afford, just don't let yourself cheat.

It will make you waste less money.... when you're talking about gift cards paying for groceries, I tend to question the purchase of any entertainment consoles. Make sure that you get your spending priorities straight.

Awesome advise! Money is the number one seperator of marrages.

[Aus-RED-5]

x2 Snoop, That's what the wife and I do.

.. and it's so true about wasting less money...

I used to spend it like crazy, but for some years now I find it hard to spend it, because I don't like not having it!

[Krom]

I had $650 for \"me-stuff\" saved up in my change jar.

I used it to buy insurance. -_-

[Duper]

I had $650 for "me-stuff" saved up in my change jar.

I used it to buy insurance. -_-

DOOOOH!

[Tunnelcat]

Maybe the price rise of the new XBOX was to subsidize this Microsoft spectacle! I saw this thing on the G4 network. It was like watching a train wreck in high def, you were fascinated and appalled by the outlandish garishness, all at the same time!

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/community/eve ... kinect.htm

[Xamindar]

I'm pretty sure Kinect is not going to deliver on its promises, just like EVERY other Microsoft product. I'm just amazed at how often people forget that a crappy company making crappy products is still going to make crappy products.

They still had to fake it at E3 while the playstation move is going to come out any day now. Granted, Sony isn't a very good company either, but they are not nearly as bad as Microsoft when it comes to promoting new products. They are both chronic liars to their customers though.

[Sirius]

Less people than you'd think think they're crappy. Though the Kinect thing has been hyped up as some kind of controller revolution, which is basically impossible - it can't replace everything. Playing a first-person shooter with it would be awkward at best.

I guess I'll stop short of asking for a point-by-point on every single Microsoft product and what promises it didn't live up to though... that would be unreasonable.

[Thenior]

Though that one video may have been choreographed, there are plenty of demos out their that weren't.

If you watch some videos on the tech behind Kinect, you'll see it's quite legit.

And although M$ has messed up alot of their OS platform promises... I'm not aware of broken promises on their 360?

[Duper]

I'd say 6 in 10 units getting a red ring of death in the first 1 1/2 years is a definate \"fail\".

the company I work for wouldn't stay in business long if we had that kinda drop out rate on our product.

[Duper]

MESS, HERE is an article that discusses a price drop in fall. There are source links in the article if you want to run them down.

[Thenior]

I didn't say failed, I said broken promises.

If you think about the big picture, it's not like M$ is somebody who is sitting are their lazy bum, not getting anything done. It's just a big beast... billions of dollars at stake, deadlines to meet, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fanboy. I skipped Vista entirely because it was such as joke, and I waited 3 years before I got an xbox, and the ring of death was part of it. I'm just saying they are a huge company with alot of more variables (i.e. alot more things to go wrong).

[Duper]

good points Thenior.

My apologies, I meant that more as toungue-in-cheek and it didn't come off well.

I was thinking along the lines of a failed product as a broken promise to service. (useability) At any rate, I really would like to see this newer unit be more reliable. Ilooked aorund a bit to gtrya dn find a solid fiailure rate and it seeme to actualy hover somehwere around 33%.

The newer models it seems will be using a generic HD but if you install you're own, you'll have to break the case to get it in... (?) wierd. That and the cheaper $199 version will not have the 250 Gb drive in it, although that's speculation at the moment.

[Xamindar]

Well, the failure rate WAS above 50% for a very long time, something like 4 years. That's unacceptable but because the gamer bunch tends to be a younger crowd who don't buy these things with their own cash Microsoft has gotten away with it. They finally had to extend the warranties though to stop the bad press they were continually getting. Also didn't the xbox360 scratch your disc to death if you dared to move the device when it was spinning?

I watched the videos on Kinect. While they were interesting I do not see these types of things kicking off. I can't see myself standing up in front of my TV for hours on end jumping, twirling, kicking, and waving my arms to control my game character. It might be fun for the first 10 minutes but after that wears off I'll probably want to hold a controller in my hand.

Sirius, you are right that not many people think Microsoft is \"crappy\". That's because most people were raised in a Microsoft world where they were taught that it is normal for your OS to crash, for you to get viruses, for patches to completely break things, for you computer to freeze. I could go on but I'm sure you know many examples seeing as you work for them. People who know better know that that is not normal and should not be expected all the time.

[Thenior]

Also didn't the xbox360 scratch your disc to death if you dared to move the device when it was spinning?

Ever tried turning a laptop when the disc is spinning? Guess what, it does the same thing....

I watched the videos on Kinect. While they were interesting I do not see these types of things kicking off. I can't see myself standing up in front of my TV for hours on end jumping, twirling, kicking, and waving my arms to control my game character. It might be fun for the first 10 minutes but after that wears off I'll probably want to hold a controller in my hand.

I agree to a point. But I also thing it will open a unique, fun genre. Imagine playing Street Fighter, only it is actually based on your skill. Sounds like a good workout to me as well....

Sirius, you are right that not many people think Microsoft is "crappy". That's because most people were raised in a Microsoft world where they were taught that it is normal for your OS to crash, for you to get viruses, for patches to completely break things, for you computer to freeze. I could go on but I'm sure you know many examples seeing as you work for them. People who know better know that that is not normal and should not be expected all the time.

What's their alternative?

Macs: Work great for graphics and media. Game selection sucks. Doesn't play nice in domain network. If it does crash, good luck fixing it - the OS isn't design to ever crash, so when it does, it freaks out. Phone support sucks, and if you bring it to an apple store, you better be prepared to wait a couple days.

Linux: Not as stable as everyone makes it out to be. Grant it, it runs more solid than an MS system, but I have had plenty of linux servers crash and bog down on me. Not a viable option for the average user. Too many distros out there.

So our alternatives aren't good. Sure, MS OS's crash, jump off domains, lose network connections, drop drivers, break boot records, and can be a pain at times, but it's flexibility and simple yet complex nature is why it does so well. We just deployed around 10 Windows 7 64 bit machines at work, and they have been running very solid in all our tests. And virus problems? All you have to do is run a half decent paid anti virus software, and don't browse crappy keygen sites, and you won't have problems. Would you walk into filthy, virus infested room? Neither would I...


Sorry to the OP for taking this thread over. If you want my opinion on the Xbox - don't get it. Your wife probably, at least unconsciously, resent your decision if you buy one, especially when money is as tight as you say. Trust me, take it from someone who has been married for only a year and has it all fresh in his mind. If your going to buy something, buy something you can use together.

[Sirius]

Software design is a tradeoff... if people would rather have a flashy OS 3 years earlier rather than one that doesn't look too cool but is absolutely rock-solid, you pretty much have to give it to them if you want to sell it. Achieving both results isn't realistic; you can improve the quality of your development team, but only so far.

There is a market for extremely secure, extremely stable operating systems, but it's unfortunately not very big.

P.S. I don't own an XBox either, though a lot of that has to do with the lack of games I really want to play for it. There are a few, but there are also a bunch of PC games I haven't gotten around to playing either, so it's hard for me to be in a hurry...

[Jeff250]

Software design is a tradeoff... if people would rather have a flashy OS 3 years earlier rather than one that doesn't look too cool but is absolutely rock-solid,

Do people *really* want this, or is this Microsoft's ill perception? If Vista was Microsoft's experiment to prove that the consumer preferred flashy over stability, then the experiment was a total disaster!

[Sirius]

I joined MS well after Vista shipped, so I can't tell you what the design goals were. Dissecting the result and its performance will require too much text and isn't really relevant, so I'll skip that.

Anyway, I didn't actually state that people prefer \"flashy\" over \"stable\", but I do believe they opt for certain degrees of both. I think the relative popularity of Linux and OS X for consumer desktops lends a fair bit of weight to that (< 1% vs 5% from memory), since compared to Windows there's a much lower skewing of the statistics from entrenchment. What sells on phones can be a similar story; the \"workhorse\" phones are losing share fast while the \"consumer\" phones (i.e. the ones with fancy UIs and features) are on the rise.

Video games go even further, of course - if your game has graphics that look like they came from 2004, it doesn't matter how fast it is or that it never crashes, few people are going to pay any attention. (There are exceptions, e.g. communities like this.)

[Jeff250]

edit: Missing words.

Hmmm... but is that even true... is Linux less flashy than OS X and is OS X less stable than Linux? I can't easily justify either of those statements right now. I suppose it's sufficient to simply show that OS X is perceived to be more flashy than Linux, and Linux more stable than OS X, but I think you'll run into the problem that most people just don't have a perception of Linux. In the same sense that \"Microsoft vs. Other OS's\" is a fake choice because of Microsoft's deliberate vendor lock-in, \"OS X vs. Linux\" is a fake choice if people don't know they have a choice.

I don't think that this is as bad as it sounds, since I think that all of the right people already know about Linux anyways. Linux, for desktop use, isn't for most people, at least as it exists presently. The kind of person who likes Linux isn't wired the same way as most people. Most people want something that just works well enough out of the box and that continues to work indefinitely. Apple delivers an excellent product in this respect. But a Linux user is a tinkerer. The kind of person who likes Linux likes an operating system or userland environment where different parts can be exchanged in and out like lego bricks. And, if no preferred solutions exist, then source code is available to hack on yourself.

Ubuntu is trying to change this by providing a Linux distro that attracts mass appeal, with some success, in that they really have attracted a lot of normal people. Their slogan was (and may still be) \"Linux for human beings.\" They have to be careful though to not lose their original following in attracting broader appeal. Interestingly, a growing criticism of Ubuntu is that it is too \"Mac-like.\" To a Mac user, this probably doesn't mean anything, but to Linux users, I think it has a special meaning, and it isn't complementary.

[Sirius]

I should clarify that by \"flashy\" I wasn't solely referring to graphics; I meant ease of use, new features, visual appeal, all the kinds of stuff that might make someone want to upgrade. OS X either has more of that or it is perceived to have more (I've never used OS X personally - though I have used Ubuntu - but that's the sort of talk I hear from users, in the press, etc). Linux is generally taken to be more ... well-made than OS X by the same token, since it is (practically provably) more secure, it is easier to repair, has been known to have uptimes measured in years, and so on.

I should also note that I'm quite well aware that Linux is usually the first OS to implement new features because of its relatively fast release cycle. It doesn't have the same mass appeal as OS X though, because those features aren't made as easy to use.

[snoopy]

Linux, for desktop use, isn't for most people, at least as it exists presently. ..... But a Linux user is a tinkerer. The kind of person who likes Linux likes an operating system or userland environment where different parts can be exchanged in and out like lego bricks. And, if no preferred solutions exist, then source code is available to hack on yourself.

QFT

This is why I find myself not recommending Linux to others, even though I doubt I'll ever personally go back to Windows.