Never in America...

[Will Robinson]

Never in my wildest dreams could I believe that groups with weapons could invade our country, take over territory, shoot at any american who dares to enter the area and the reaction to this from our federal government would be to put up a sign warning us that we need to stay away from there because it is dangerous! A frikken travel advisory in our own country warning of armed invaders!?!
I could see all that happening if the signs were put up in conjunction with a division of U.S. troops and armor rolling into the area to clean out the invasion.
Sure temporary road blocks and signs so we don't get in the way while the rapid response is in the works...yea, that sort of thing makes sense.

But to have the invasion going on and progressively getting worse for years and then finally they put up signs around the surrendered area like a revision to the State Park Rules:

*Don't Feed the Bears
*Littering is Against the Law
*Avoid Eye Contact With Smugglers
*Stay A Safe Distance From Mexicans Carrying Drugs and Weapons
*Dial 911 For Emergency (except if you are white and a citizen)

!?!?@$?! WTF?!?#?$?@?!!?

Apparently the Obama administrations reaction to the country reaching a boiling point isn't to ready an armed response but rather to wait until they think the moment is right politically to give amnesty to the invaders! I guess so they can vote for Obama and Co. next election and cash in on our over budget social services!

Someone needs to tell the liberals those smugglers also have bibles and engage in home schooling! That would bring out the National Guard post haste!!

I bet if you could go back in history and propose this reality we have today as a hypothetical scenario to the founding fathers they would laugh and say 'Well that will never happen but if it did it surely would be considered a 'High Crime' and be an impeachable offense!'

It is despicable for our so called representatives to alllow these conditions to exist. A Governor of a State in America should never have to make a video like this: Arizona's Gov. responds to Obama Administration

[woodchip]

I propose we send law enforcement officers from El Reno OK to take charge in the AZ disputed zone. I hear they are some real capable policemen, afraid of nothing:

\" (CN) - Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, \"Don't Taze my granny!\" an El Reno police officer told another cop to \"Taser her!\" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman \"took a more aggressive posture in her bed,\" according to the complaint.

The grandma, Lona Varner, \"told them to get out of her apartment.\"
The remarkable complaint continues: \"Instead, the apparent leader of the police [defendant Thomas Duran] instructed another policeman to 'Taser her!' He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.\"

With the professional caliber demonstrated by these hero's of law enforcement, I'm sure AZ's border area would become a family picnic area in no time.

And yeah Will, in true liberal fashion, a sign to stay away is the kinder more gentle way to solve the problem.

[snoopy]

I'm annoyed at the way things are.

I have a question, though:

If we Americans didn't hire illegals, and if we Americans didn't buy drugs, what would southern Arizona be like?

[Nightshade]

Snoopy- both of those issues have one thing in common...

They are ILLEGAL.

We have a government that is derelict in its duty of enforcing laws that already EXIST.

[Heretic]

Snoopy do you think American are the only ones to buy drugs?

http://www.docshop.com/2008/07/17/seven ... -problems/

Illegal drug use is a problem for the whole world not just one corner of it.

[VonVulcan]

We already have all the laws and regulations that are needed to take care of these problems. We as Americans just need to get off our collective a$$ and participate in the systems in place. It's pathetic how uninvolved we are in our own system and that's the principal reason we are now in the ditch we are in.

[Will Robinson]

I'm annoyed at the way things are.

I have a question, though:

If we Americans didn't hire illegals, and if we Americans didn't buy drugs, what would southern Arizona be like?

It would be calm.
And I firmly advocate we stop doing both of those things.
But regardless of the reason people want to sneak in here, when the people doing the sneaking go from...well, sneaking...all the way up to blatantly forcing their way in, taking territory and shooting at our military and police if they get in the way then a line has been crossed!!
That line should be recognized by anyone with authority in america as a giant step too far and no rationale can justify those in authority sitting on their hands trying to make political gains from it instead of putting a swift end to it!!

[snoopy]

Snoopy- both of those issues have one thing in common...

They are ILLEGAL.

We have a government that is derelict in its duty of enforcing laws that already EXIST.

Snoopy do you think American are the only ones to buy drugs?

http://www.docshop.com/2008/07/17/seven ... -problems/

Illegal drug use is a problem for the whole world not just one corner of it.

The point that I'm trying to make is that it's American citizens breaking the law that is providing the incentive for non-american citizens to ignore the law. It's easy to point the finger and say solve the border issue... but especially with the drug trade and cartels, I think we need to face our own guilt in supplying them the market. Does that mean that we need to federally legalize marajuana? Maybe. Does it mean that the government could be doing a better job at enforcing the law? Yes.

I ranted about this in a previous post... we all, as citizens, need to stop pretending that we can just ignore the laws that we don't like. Our lack of respect for the law brings on more radical laws like what the MPAA and RIAA and such would like to see in place. If we hadn't gone all Napster-crazy, they wouldn't have to spend so much money trying to stop us, we we'd be able to make our legal backups. If we didn't go out and get high, the cartels wouldn't make any money on the US, and wouldn't be particularly interested in crossing the border.

...The cartels really do get me going, though. If they want to start a war, I'd hunt em down and do everything I could to make their life miserable.

[Will Robinson]

...
The point that I'm trying to make is that it's American citizens breaking the law that is providing the incentive for non-american citizens to ignore the law. It's easy to point the finger and say solve the border issue... but especially with the drug trade and cartels, I think we need to face our own guilt in supplying them the market. ...

What would you say to a bunch of firemen who show up to your burning house and they tell you that because your neighbors kids bought illegal fireworks and accidentally set your house on fire and because it was caused by citizens engaged in illegal activity, they won't put the fire out? However, while they have your attention they do want you to reconsider the laws that make fireworks illegal...

The federal government's primary objective is to protect our borders from foreign forces. If they won't perform that most important part of their mandate then what the hell do we need them for?!?
This is way beyond policy debate! This is fundamental to our existence...like breathing is to humans.

Here, try this:

If a bunch of american citizens gather together and train with weapons and merely talk about one day shooting police the federal government swoops in and arrests them.

However, I'm supposed to understand why, when a group of drug smuggling foreign nationals repeatedly cross our border and actually shoot at our police and federal agents, on multiple occasions, our government runs away!?!
Then when challenged by the States governor to do something they return only to put up warning signs and then they run away again.

And now we have these events unfold and the media reports on it as a political issue instead of a violent crime wave of invading drug smugglers!!

It's like frikken Bizzaro world! Wake me up I've had enough!!

[AlphaDoG]

[snoopy]

I hear you, Will.

I'm not trying to say that the feds shouldn't be doing more to secure the border. They should. What makes it hard is the fact that there's an intermingling of \"innocent\" people looking for a better life, and really evil drug cartel people. the biggest problem is that the drug cartel people run around northern Mexico like they run the place. A message needs to be sent that similar behavior stateside won't fly.

If I was running the show here's what I'd do: I'd post a bunch of signs at the border, in English and Spanish, warning people that they are entering US territory. I'd further state in the warning that any hostile action toward border patrol, such as firing at, or brandishing weapons, will be interpreted as a military invasion, and will be dealt with accordingly. Long story short: If you shoot at us, you just got yourself blown up. Make sure that you put out the word in Mexico to warn the decent people: if you sneak across with shady characters, and they go pulling guns on people, it's on you. It'd be a political bombshell, though.

There's nothing wrong with the signs, it's the lack of other action that's a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not changing my tone here. I'm not happy with the way things are being handled. I'm also bothered by the sense that I get that our society wants to always play the victim card, and society seems to lose sight of the fact that we bring a lot of our problems upon ourselves by encouraging the criminals. At the very least, if we cleaned up our act, we'd leave the law enforcers with more time to go after the really bad guys.

To follow your analogy: we shouldn't look the other way when the kids start setting off the illegal fireworks- we should go out and call them out on it before something bad happens, like our house starting to burn. That way, the fire marshal can spend more time dealing with arson and less time dealing with accidents.

[Krom]

This grows more retarded every minute it is allowed to continue. We should get the military out of the middle east because that is a hopeless cause anyway, and instead come back and defend the homeland!

I also wonder if this isn't allowed to continue because the prison industry makes a boatload of money in the US and doesn't want illegal drugs to go away since it is ultimately a big part of their income.