MS 3D Pro Plus question (for Grendel or anyone)

[Rodent]

Hi all. I've followed Grendl's adapter for a while, enjoy the work he's doing here.

I have a MS Precion Pro, of the 3D Pro Plus brand. I like the handle and have modified it to add 5 buttons to the handle. That's just a parallel circuit for each of the 5 buttons on the base added to new hardware (from old mice parts) and it works great.

However, I have one of the LED-engineered sticks. There are no pots. I would like to hack/modify/rewire this thing onto a USB spare board, but there are no wires from the pots to clip and re-solder to a new board.


My question is, rather than go this route with the adapter, does anybody know where these signals are sent to the onboard processor? Is it in any way possible to \"tap\" the line and then send that signal to a USB stick's PCB? Or is it just not possible with the way this stick is set up.


I'm sorry if this wasn't very clear. Please let me know if you need me to clarify. I'm not really an EE type of guy, so I'll probably end up using the wrong terms. I am quite handy, though, and generally smart enough. I wanted to know if this was possible because then when I convert my old CH pedals into gameport I can combine them directly onto this stick and make 1 USB device instead of 2.

[Grendel]

Hi all. I've followed Grendl's adapter for a while, enjoy the work he's doing here.

I have a MS Precion Pro, of the 3D Pro Plus brand. I like the handle and have modified it to add 5 buttons to the handle. That's just a parallel circuit for each of the 5 buttons on the base added to new hardware (from old mice parts) and it works great.

I think I understand that so far -- you added buttons to the handle and wired them into the buttons on the base.

However, I have one of the LED-engineered sticks. There are no pots. I would like to hack/modify/rewire this thing onto a USB spare board, but there are no wires from the pots to clip and re-solder to a new board.

Not sure I got that right -- you want to replace the board from the 3DPP w/ a board from a PP ?

Should be possible, AFAIK the boards MCU is the only thing that changed (I never looked really close tho.) However, the calibration betw. the LEDs (that move when you move the handle) and the sensor (on the board) may be off, they were matched during manufacturing.

[..]because then when I convert my old CH pedals into gameport I can combine them directly onto this stick and make 1 USB device instead of 2.

That, I think, will not be possible.

[Rodent]

Well, I wasn't specifically thinking of combining them with a USB-compatible MS PP-type stick. I was thinking of any USB-capable stick, and simply clipping off the pots and trying to attach those wires as leads to the proper place on the PCB to \"pick up\" the signal.

The proper order would be:
1) Clip PCB with USB capability out of a cheap stick.
2) Clip off the low-quality pots from this
3) Open quality stick that only has analog plug
4) Solder quality stick's pots to cheap stick's pot connection wires (clipped in step #2)
5) Close up stick and run as USB.

Here's the problem: The 3D Pro Plus has no pots to salvage and attach to another stick's guts. So is there some place on this 3D Pro Plus' PCB that one can solder in some leads and \"tap\" the signals it would normally send to the microchip? It would have to be tapped before the microchip packaged the data like a USB packet, because after that point I don't think it's remotely compatible with what I want.

Then, assuming I get X, Y, and throttle tapped and routed properly into the cheap USB-innards, I would bypass the Z axis and just route my analog pedals into the cheap USB-innards, leaving the MS Z-axis untapped. That part I'm fairly confident with.

I've already modified my CH non-pro pedals to work by themselves without a pass-through stick, and they would be easy to convert to USB. The problem is this 3D Pro Plus and the way the input signals are captured and packaged somehow without the traditional methods.


Here are some of the buttons I added so far:
http://www.nakatomitower.com/sidewinder ... edup1a.jpg

So my idea would be a similar \"solder new wire onto the existing buttons\" only with the inputs instead.

Barring that being possible in any remote universe, my backup plan would be to find a USB-capable MS Sidewinder-style stick and swap this handle to the new stick. I don't know how similar the internal PCBs will be and if I can just detach the wires from the handle and reattach them with identical connectors on whatever stick I find. It seems (at least) that they are of similar architecture.

Here are some pics showing off the internal board layout of my stick (with the modifications)
http://www.nakatomitower.com/sidewinder ... ired2a.jpg
and
http://www.nakatomitower.com/sidewinder ... ired3a.jpg

Thanks for any help you can send my way! Be it suggestions or white men with padded coats!

[Grendel]

Here's the problem: The 3D Pro Plus has no pots to salvage and attach to another stick's guts. So is there some place on this 3D Pro Plus' PCB that one can solder in some leads and "tap" the signals it would normally send to the microchip? It would have to be tapped before the microchip packaged the data like a USB packet, because after that point I don't think it's remotely compatible with what I want.

Correct -- there's no way you could mate the SideWinders pickup system w/ conventional pot inputs, sorry. It's a totally different method of position determination (quite superior to pots actually..) This MS patent goes a little bit into the details if you are interested.

For other sticks mods, this page has some good examples.

[Rodent]

Correct -- there's no way you could mate the SideWinders pickup system w/ conventional pot inputs, sorry. It's a totally different method of position determination (quite superior to pots actually..)

For other sticks mods, this page has some good examples.

I could tell right away by studying the design of the stick (when I first opened it) that it was really really cleverly built. Back when MS was a great place that produced innovative stuff. Too bad it falls in between the "true gameport" and the "true USB" categories, the lost forgotten niche of "USB signals through a gameport" -- totally unupgradable lol!


That is, without your USB adapter, eh? Pity they didn't keep at it. They might have rivaled CH for reputation in the quality department.


Thanks for the speedy answer! I'll check out the links, but it seems I really cannot do what I wanted with this stick. I'll have to move to another stick when I switch to USB.