Worse than the Patriot act, thats our President

[CUDA]

So Mein Fuhrer now has his police force in place with a stroke of the pen. one that can operate outside the scope of the Constitution

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... nance.html

The Washington Examiner said that Obama's directive could possibly be \"the most destructive blow ever struck against American constitutional civil liberties.\" In dissecting Obama's Executive Order 12425 the Examiner editorial board revealed that.


First, Obama has granted Interpol the ability to operate within the territorial limits of the United States without being subject to the same constitutional restraints that apply to all domestic law enforcement agencies such as the FBI. Second, Obama has exempted Interpol's domestic facilities-including its office within the U.S. Department of Justrice-from search and seizure by U.S. authorities and from disclosure of archived documents in response to Freedom of Information Act requests files by U.S. citizens.


With the stroke of a pen Mr. Obama handed sweeping police powers within American territory to an international organization which will be free to conduct police operations without domestic oversight or accountability.

[woodchip]

How much do you want to bet, those same media types that lamented how Bush allowing the feds to listen in on terrorist related cell phone calls, are going to turn a blind eye to this?

[Grendel]

Heh. Look into what the US can do in other countries.

[flip]

First Bush pushes the patriot act then Obama does this. This just gives more credence to my conspiracy theory that WE will be witnesses to this New World Order that Bush Sr. was so fond of pushing in the early 90's. We are doomed to it because most Americans now will either vote in some guy who blatantly pushes socialistic(one world government)ideals, or they bury their heads in the sand hoping nothings gonna happen. Again I say these Executive Orders are a surefire way to circumvent the democratic process and sell us down the river. I honestly believe there is more cooperation going on than either democrats or republicans are admitting to. I mean how many people on this board are outraged at this new executive order, and yet I bet most people have not even heard about it.

[null0010]

lol conspiracy theory new world order.

no, this is the same quiet, creeping increase of executive power that's been happening since andrew jackson. i am personally disgusted with obama's behavior in this area, especially considering his campaign promises to close Guantanamo, end warrant-less wiretapping, etc... especially because that's a large portion of the reason i voted for him.

however, his gains in other areas even out my opinion of him to around \"almost tolerable,\" which is far better than any president to serve a term in my lifetime

[woodchip]

however, his gains in other areas even out my opinion of him to around "almost tolerable," which is far better than any president to serve a term in my lifetime

He has gains? Like being the most racist president? Signing into law a health care bill that 3/4 of the people didn't want? Highest deficit creator since WW2?
You mean you actually see some good....somewhere?

[flip]

New World Order was Bush's words not mine, so then I begin to wonder exactly what he means when he used and \"coined\" that term. What exactly new was he referring to then that concerned the whole world? Do you not believe we are heading to a Global government? Would you agree that whether intentional or not, having a global police force is definitely a push in that direction? Do you feel that America will be able to keep it's own separate form of government as this is happening now or will it become something \"new\". We are definitely getting change, I'm just not sure it's the change we were sold on.

[null0010]

however, his gains in other areas even out my opinion of him to around "almost tolerable," which is far better than any president to serve a term in my lifetime

He has gains? Like being the most racist president? Signing into law a health care bill that 3/4 of the people didn't want? Highest deficit creator since WW2?
You mean you actually see some good....somewhere?

Here is a NYTimes article declaring the American people support health care reform (2009) and here is an article about Obama's historic gains. Here is another list of gains, but that's by DailyKOS, so you'll probably sneer at it. And finally, the Politifact Obamameter.

As for the New World Order, it was simply, and I quote from the wiki article, a phrase that "presidents Mikhail Gorbachev and George H. W. Bush used ... to try to define the nature of the post Cold War era, and the spirit of great power cooperation that they hoped might materialize. Gorbachev's initial formulation was wide ranging and idealistic, but his ability to press for it was severely limited by the internal crisis of the Soviet system. Bush's vision was, in comparison, much more circumscribed and realistic, perhaps even instrumental at times, and closely linked to the Gulf War."

[woodchip]

however, his gains in other areas even out my opinion of him to around "almost tolerable," which is far better than any president to serve a term in my lifetime

He has gains? Like being the most racist president? Signing into law a health care bill that 3/4 of the people didn't want? Highest deficit creator since WW2?
You mean you actually see some good....somewhere?

Here is a NYTimes article declaring the American people support health care reform (2009) and here is an article about Obama's historic gains. Here is another list of gains, but that's by DailyKOS, so you'll probably sneer at it. And finally, the Politifact Obamameter.

Perhaps next time you will go to actual polling companies instead of places like the NYT and the Daily KOS:


Sunday, March 21, 2010
"Speaker Nancy Pelosi has scheduled a House of Representatives vote today on the health care reform plan proposed by the President Obama and congressional Democrats. Yet while in Congress there has been months of posturing and shifting of political tactics, voter attitudes have remained constant: A majority oppose the plan being considered by the legislators.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... are_reform

With 54% opposed, I have a hard time understanding how one would get "The American people support" health care reform as presented by the Dems.

Do try harder next time to come up with a good rebuttal and avoid the claptrap liberal spew you seem to be fond of.

[Spidey]

I support health care reform too, don’t confuse that with supporting the piece of crap we got.

New World Order was first coined by H.G.Wells or Jules Verne, I forget which.

[AlphaDoG]

The New World Order (Wells), a 1940 book by H. G. Wells promoting a new world order uniting the world and bringing peace.

[flip]

Bush Sr. was the first figure to publicly proclaim it in a political arena. I'm still wondering exactly what \"he\" meant when he used the term. Anybody here think that a global police force that operates outside of our bill of rights and our constitution, without any internal oversight is part of that ideal? Or am I just chicken little decrying delusions of an unstable man.

[CUDA]

Who know!!!!!! maybe Interpol has tough anti immigration laws that they inforce. this could work out good in the long run

[Cuda68]

Bush Sr. was the first figure to publicly proclaim it in a political arena. I'm still wondering exactly what "he" meant when he used the term. Anybody here think that a global police force that operates outside of our bill of rights and our constitution, without any internal oversight is part of that ideal? Or am I just chicken little decrying delusions of an unstable man.

I believe your speaking of Interpol. They can now operate within our borders without the constraint of the Constitution thanks to ObamBam.


and Cuda beat me to it

[flip]

Yes I was referring to Obama's latest EO concerning Interpol, and also how each administration in the last 20 years has used different means to the same end.

[null0010]

Perhaps next time you will go to actual polling companies instead of places like the NYT and the Daily KOS:


The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months."

Rasmussen is just as biased to the right as DailyKOS is to the left. You have to look at a large number of polls to really get a view for what the "truth" is.

Here's an image that breaks down the health care bill (from when it included the public option, no less) by issue and asks the public what they think of it:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/. ... 970c-800wi

So, do try harder next time to come up with a good rebuttal and avoid the claptrap neoconservative spew you seem to be fond of.

[Bet51987]

.

[Cuda68]

Perhaps next time you will go to actual polling companies instead of places like the NYT and the Daily KOS:


The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months."

Rasmussen is just as biased to the right as DailyKOS is to the left. You have to look at a large number of polls to really get a view for what the "truth" is.

Here's an image that breaks down the health care bill (from when it included the public option, no less) by issue and asks the public what they think of it:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/. ... 970c-800wi

So, do try harder next time to come up with a good rebuttal and avoid the claptrap neoconservative spew you seem to be fond of.

Look at what happened in NY State with this nonsence. I do not need to listen to spew, but look at the proven results.

[Ferno]

I love how the lot of you guys (exception being grendel and null) are going completely bat-turd crazy.

it's kind of fun to watch.


and judging by the replies i've seen so far, I'd wager that almost all those involved in here know absolutely zero about interpol.

[Cuda68]

Ferno - Politics is always a heated debate when the two major parties have such different views.

I found a non-partisan site detailing the N.Y. health care system which is similar to what the Nation is about to under go.


http://www.urban.org/publications/307469.html

[Spidey]

Heh. Look into what the US can do in other countries.

Other than Japan & Germany…and a few others that might be special cases, I would love some specific examples.

[Grendel]

I'm tired, you'll have to do your own research. It's pretty easy to find really.

[Ferno]

Ferno - Politics is always a heated debate when the two major parties have such different views.

there's a massive difference between heated debate and outright craziness.

[Spidey]

Nope…too much trouble defining search parameters.

Not my claim, not my responsibility to do the research.

So, I’ll just leave this as disputing your claim.

[Ferno]

Nope…too much trouble defining search parameters.

Not my claim, not my responsibility to do the research.

So, I’ll just leave this as disputing your claim.

lazy.

[Spidey]

Lol…MYOB

[null0010]

Heh. Look into what the US can do in other countries.

Other than Japan & Germany…and a few others that might be special cases, I would love some specific examples.

Well, let's see.

Iran-Contra, Israel/Palastine, propping up Latin American strongmen government who bite us in the rear, there's a load of nonsense the United States does in other countries that's a terrible idea, but we do it anyways. Iraq, Palestine... Vietnam... think of any conflict we've been involved in since 1945.

A few examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... operations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-Uni ... _relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republics

And as far as "socialised" medicine being a "failure," I'd suggest you look at Hawaii's system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/healt ... awaii.html

[woodchip]

Perhaps next time you will go to actual polling companies instead of places like the NYT and the Daily KOS:


The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll, taken Friday and Saturday nights, shows that 41% of likely voters favor the health care plan. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed. These figures have barely budged in recent months."

Rasmussen is just as biased to the right as DailyKOS is to the left. You have to look at a large number of polls to really get a view for what the "truth" is.

Here's an image that breaks down the health care bill (from when it included the public option, no less) by issue and asks the public what they think of it:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/. ... 970c-800wi

So, do try harder next time to come up with a good rebuttal and avoid the claptrap neoconservative spew you seem to be fond of.

Just who has done that chart Null? And Bee you can wipe your silly grin off your face:

"There's a big, slow-news-weekend story over at Politico today over allegations made by certain Democrats and liberals that the prolific polling firm Rasmussen Reports is biased toward conservative and Republican causes.

The first thing to note is that there are a lot of different ways in which a polling firm might be biased. Rasmussen is most frequently accused of bias because their results are thought to lean toward Republican candidates. Just to pick a random example, for instance, Rasmussen has embattled Democrat Blanche Lincoln down by margins ranging between 4 and 7 points against three potential Republican opponents in her 2010 Senate race, whereas two other polling firms (neither of which, incidentally, are themselves free of partisan ties) have Lincoln ahead against these opponents by margins ranging from 1 to 16 points. Does this mean that Rasmussen is biased?

The polling firm Public Policy Polling has also tended to show poor results for Democratic candidates in its 2010 polling, relative to other pollsters like Quinnipiac. But Public Policy Polling is a Democratic polling firm. Are they biased too?"

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/ ... iased.html

From wiki:

"In 2004 Slate magazine said they “publicly doubted and privately derided Rasmussen” polls because of the methodology. However, after the election, they concluded that Rasmussen’s polls were the most accurate."

So at the very least I use a well known polling firm with a track record of being correct. How about you?

[CUDA]

Wood, the same has been said about Fox news, studies have proven them to be the most balanced in their News reporting. but since the left doesnt want balanced they ad-homiem attack them.

\"No experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, and which we trust will end in establishing the fact, that man may be governed by reason and truth. Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all the avenues to truth. The most effectual hitherto found, is the freedom of the press. It is, therefore, the first shut up by those who fear the investigation of their actions.\" --Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler, 1804. ME 11:33

nothing can be more truthful then what the left and in particular this president has tried to do to Fox. lets shut them up Rassmussen is next on their list just watch.

[Spidey]

null, you have the concept confused…the idea here is, what has America been given the “legal” right to do in other countries, by that country.

If the idea was simply what has America done in other countries…then I wouldn’t have bothered to ask.

[Ferno]

Wood, the same has been said about Fox news, studies have proven them to be the most balanced in their News reporting. but since the left doesnt want balanced they ad-homiem attack them.

what studies are these??

[CUDA]

Wood, the same has been said about Fox news, studies have proven them to be the most balanced in their News reporting. but since the left doesnt want balanced they ad-homiem attack them.

what studies are these??

the same INDEPENDENT studies that I've posted on these forums 4 times before. look them up. Pew research

[Ferno]

you do know that the search on here is BROKEN, right?

the thing about those kind of studies is they can ask six people on the street, call it done and have the results say whatever they want them to say. most people these have no clue about what news actually is, so these 'independent studies' you talk about are most likely garbage.

how can you believe a study when the man on the street thinks lindsey lohan going to jail is newsworthy? Or that lady gaga's new outfit somehow warrants more attention than the forest fires in British columbia? People wouldn't know news if it came up and cranked them in the balls.

independent? maybe. accurate? not on your life.

[Grendel]

Probably the same \"studies\" \"scientists\" or \"experts\" did.

[AlphaDoG]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ferno+the+troll+si ... centbb.net

[CUDA]

now THAT was funny!!!!!

[Ferno]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ferno+the+troll+si ... centbb.net

that's okay. I know the first poke in the butt can be kind of rough and painful but it gets easier over time.

[CUDA]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ferno+the+troll+si ... centbb.net

that's okay. I know the first poke in the butt can be kind of rough and painful but it gets easier over time.

experience?????

[AlphaDoG]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ferno+the+troll+si ... centbb.net

that's okay. I know the first poke in the butt can be kind of rough and painful but it gets easier over time.

My post was actually meant to show that even you Ferno could search the DBB without using the built in search that is borked here.

[Ferno]

I know. and my point was that someone should really do something to FIX IT.

Cuda: I wouldn't say experience but i have a few friends who like to give very detailed stories regarding their escapades. Leads to some very interesting conversations.