Unbelievable

[Heretic]

Students told you can't sing the National Anthem at Lincoln Memorial. Then they sing it anyway.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/09/st ... al-anthem/

[Ferno]

i love it when people realize a bad law when they see it and then break it.

it's awesome.

[woodchip]

So conservative students are the new hippies?

[Lothar]

i love it when people realize a bad law when they see it and then break it.

IMO, the guard should have turned a blind eye to it, or at least given the group a clear explanation of what the issue was. But the policy makes sense overall -- no public performances or demonstrations within such-and-such distance of the memorial, as it's a space set aside for quiet reflection. Otherwise you open the door not just for kids singing the national anthem, but Fred Phelps singing "God hates fags".

[Heretic]

So now freedom of speech can be deigned to anyone any where base on a rule to keep a kook from speaking out?

Well the goes another fundamental right. Why we just flush the whole Constitution while we are at it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[CUDA]

So now freedom of speech can be deigned to anyone any where base on a rule to keep a kook from speaking out?

Well the goes another fundamental right. Why we just flush the whole Constitution while we are at it.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm thinking

the right of the people peaceably to assemble,

part could be debatable. it could be said they were being disruptive. as the Parks department has stated where they were is a place for reflection. if they had moved 25 feet away, and I'm assuming outside the main memorial they would not have been in a quiet zone. Hospitals have the same type of zones. the whole Issue is probably BS. the park ranger probably should have ignored it. but then again he was just doing his job and following the law. but I feel that the students knew this would cause an uproar and are looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

[Lothar]

So now freedom of speech can be deigned to anyone any where base on a rule to keep a kook from speaking out?

Just pointing out an inconsistency in Ferno's position; he's been pretty vocal about Fred Phelps lately.

When it comes down to it, though, "freedom of speech" does not necessarily mean "freedom to be loud and disruptive". You can talk quietly in the public library, but if you brought a group in and started singing, you'd be asked to leave. You can talk quietly at the Lincoln Memorial, but if you bring a group in and start singing, it's reasonable for security to ask you to keep it down or step back to an appropriate distance out of consideration for others who may want to quietly reflect. Of course, it's up to the security guard to explain himself clearly, and it's a judgment call as to how strictly he enforces things.

[Spidey]

Freedom of speech means that you can’t be denied a public forum to voice your opinion…it does not mean you have the right to break laws and rules.

[Heretic]

So to tell them, they can't sing there and they did any way you say they broke the law. So which law did they brake and why isn't it not abridging the First Amendment Rights?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

a·bridge   [uh-brij]
–verb (used with object), a·bridged, a·bridg·ing.

1.to shorten by omissions while retaining the basic contents: to abridge a reference book.

2.to reduce or lessen in duration, scope, authority, etc.; diminish; curtail: to abridge a visit; to abridge one's freedom.

3.to deprive; cut off.

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

There was no clear and present danger from these kids singing. Since congress has to approve all laws in the District of Columbia they have indeed made laws that go against the First Amendment. Once we lose this right it will never be regained because if a person cannot speak they cannot arouse support.

[CUDA]

they did not prevent them from speaking. they had every right to discuss what ever they wanted to in a quiet non disruptive civil manner

speech   /spitʃ/ Show Spelled[speech] Show IPA
–noun
1. the faculty or power of speaking; oral communication; ability to express one's thoughts and emotions by speech sounds and gesture:
2. the act of speaking:
3. something that is spoken; an utterance, remark, or declaration:
4. a form of communication in spoken language, made by a speaker before an audience for a given purpose:

their SPEECH would have been protected

but dont forget about the second part

or the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

“We got maybe two lines in and a police officer came over and he was yelling,” Balcomb said in a telephone interview. “He quieted us down.” Balcomb, 17, said the officer told the group they were being too loud. “I was dumbfounded,” he said.

“I didn’t realize there was something wrong with singing the national anthem.”

Schlosser said the students would have been in compliance had they moved approximately 25 steps from where they were standing.

why didnt the students move the 25 feet and continue???

they were in a closed area and were a disruption to those in that closed area. the government did not abridge their freedom of speech. the government did not tell them they could not continue to sing, what the government did do was tell them to sing out side. this is no different than when someone disrupts a townhall meeting. you can say what you want, you cannot disrupt the meeting by being loud, boisterous, or verbaly abusive.

[Heretic]

So since when is there a closed area in a Lincoln Memorial The public may visit the Lincoln Memorial 24 hours a day. Thus there is no close area. Besides they were on the steps of the Memorial just like this.



So I guess a full concert put on by Obama on the steps is fine but not kids sing on the step? I sure it was content neural.

http://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-4505 ... on-concert

http://dc.about.com/b/2009/01/18/inaugu ... morial.htm

[null0010]

You probably need a permit with the Parks Service to do a concert like that.

The reason they were yelled at, etc, is because the rule is a rule is a rule. If they start making exceptions, the slippery slope y'all're so damn fond of will take effect, and next week they'll have Muslims screaming about jihad (oh heavens, no) on the steps.

[Top Gun]

I'd just like to know what sort of kids randomly decide to spontaneously break into a round of the National Anthem in public. That's a weird bunch of teens right there.