The
Upside-Down World is a interesting read for some others will find it offending. It points out a lot of flaws with the world and what is has been going on of late. This article will be attacked by some of you but at least read the thing. Yes some will stop reading and not finish the article and attack it before finishing it, at least admit you didn't read the whole thing.
The
Upside-Down World
Interesting article.
Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250
I would absolutely agree that the story in the very beginning about the street preacher being thrown in jail is unacceptable (not because I agree with the preacher's words, mind you). However, that's in Britain, and not the United States, so I'm not familiar with law there. Here, though, I would be surprised to see that happen.
This article goes on and on about the immoralities of other people. In a spiritual sense, isn't it the salvation and/or enlightenment of the self which is important? This is an attitude I have never been able to understand, from members of any religion. Why does it matter what the Jones family across the street is doing? And even if it does matter, ranting and screaming sure isn't the best way to convince them of the rightness of your ideas.
I have to express some serious disagreement with a certain paragraph:
To give a point to the article, it is silly that in Britain a transsexual may be issued a new birth certificate to reflect their current physical gender - but not on moral reasons. It's simply incorrect to revise history in that way.
I don't really have the time to read the rest of this rant, so I'll close by saying that while this article contains a valid point every three paragraphs or so, most of it just sounds like a man angry that his political block is out of majority power.
This article goes on and on about the immoralities of other people. In a spiritual sense, isn't it the salvation and/or enlightenment of the self which is important? This is an attitude I have never been able to understand, from members of any religion. Why does it matter what the Jones family across the street is doing? And even if it does matter, ranting and screaming sure isn't the best way to convince them of the rightness of your ideas.
I have to express some serious disagreement with a certain paragraph:
That's because no truths are simple and elegant like that. I must protest and say that everything is in shades of gray. (And I'm not just talking about gender identities - no important moral, ethical, scientific, or spiritual truth is as simple as "black and white.") As Bertram Russel said, "the whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."article (emphasis mine) wrote:None too difficult, that is, except for intellectuals. In their Upside-Down thinking, nothing is either/or, black-or-white —not even male or female!
To give a point to the article, it is silly that in Britain a transsexual may be issued a new birth certificate to reflect their current physical gender - but not on moral reasons. It's simply incorrect to revise history in that way.
Publicly funded and government organizations, I have no doubt, are able to be told what to do by the government. If the government says "same sex weddings are legal," then it is the obligation of a registrar to "conduct" them. It becomes his or her job. However, the story about the grandparents and their grandchildren (while hard to believe, as it lacks citations) is ridiculous and I don't like it either.article wrote:In this world, morality has been flipped on its head. Freedom of religion is being beaten to death by the “freedom” to practice aggressive homosexual activism. State and local laws criminalizing behavior deemed discriminatory against cross-dressers, bisexuals and homosexuals are forcing businesses, schools and publicly funded organizations to embrace perversion. Last December, a British registrar was forced to resign for refusing to conduct same-sex “weddings.” A pediatrician had to leave an adoption panel because he wouldn’t approve homosexual couples for adoption. In February 2009, a Scottish couple were denied their request to adopt their two grandchildren—so that the children, ages 4 and 5, could be adopted by a gay male couple; when the grandparents objected, the judge told them to hush up if they ever wanted to see the children again.
I don't really have the time to read the rest of this rant, so I'll close by saying that while this article contains a valid point every three paragraphs or so, most of it just sounds like a man angry that his political block is out of majority power.
Well, I’m going to have to say there are a few things in life that are black & white…
Stealing for example is always wrong, even if you have the best justification for it, such as you were starving to death. Well what you did was necessary, but still wrong. In this case people like to apply relative morals, to absolutes.
Most issues of morality are black & white, it’s just that when people are forced to make a decision to be immoral, they feel the need to justify it…in lies the “gray”.
This does not apply to all things, sexuality for example.
IMHO
Stealing for example is always wrong, even if you have the best justification for it, such as you were starving to death. Well what you did was necessary, but still wrong. In this case people like to apply relative morals, to absolutes.
Most issues of morality are black & white, it’s just that when people are forced to make a decision to be immoral, they feel the need to justify it…in lies the “gray”.
This does not apply to all things, sexuality for example.
IMHO
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I find it interesting that alot of people talk about Morality when they have no foundation to base their Morality on. your view of what is morally acceptable might not be the same as mine. or your views of whats right and wrong or whats black and white might not be the same as mine.
what do we base our Morality on???
what do we base our Morality on???
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
― Theodore Roosevelt
My morality is based on what hurts other people. If it \"picks [their] pocket or breaks [their] leg,\" as Jefferson said, I don't do it. That's what libertarianism is about. Even loudmouth punk band NOFX gets that right: \"I don't f--k with you, don't f--k with me.\"
There are exceptions for the direst of situations - but I would still never kill another person to preserve my life.
There are exceptions for the direst of situations - but I would still never kill another person to preserve my life.
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I guess you have never came face to face with a situation where survival instincts took over. Until that happens you will never know if you would take another's life. The basic human survival instinct says you will either take flight or fight and to survive humans will kill another human. You also know that old saying \"never say never\".
The article is a mixed bag. A lot of the stuff mentioned as being upside-down is infact being upside down, like the preacher being thrown in jail for offending someone, or the grandparents not being allowed to adopt because a gay couple wanted the kid instead. Even the stuff about how society allows for the mocking of christianity while it shields islam is a very very good point. Every religion should be equally subject to being mocked.
However the author himself comes off at times as a right wing religious extremist, trying to define everything in the world in terms of right and wrong as set forth in the bible, when so much of the world just doesn't work that way. Gender, which I'm sure must have indeed been black and white when humanity was first coming to be, is no longer so due to chromosomal disorders, hormonal imbalances, and so on. Many of these diseses are probably caused or exasperated via man made means such as food additives, industrial chemicals, and so on. Gender unfortunately is a gray area at this point.
That, however, doesn't mean the homosexuals and transsexuals have to go around throwing their differentness in our faces. They should be held, by society, to the same standards of behavior as everyone else.
One point I do strongly agree with in the article is that the Family is the basic building block of society. The Family has been undermined constantly for decades, ever since at least world war two. The problem is that no one is home anymore to raise the kids, and when you want to be home with the kids, you have to be at work since you now need two earners per family to make ends meet, since everyone is expected to work, everyone gets less. If more people were home makers, the available pool of labor would be much smaller and each worker would get a larger sum, which would hopefully allow for a one-earner family system again.
I honestly don't care who stays home to raise the kids, as long as someone does. If the woman makes more money than the man, the man should be gracious enough to accept that and accept the gigantic responsibility of raising the kids. If the man makes more money, the reverse should be true.
I also believe some physical discipline should be allowed back in society. When I was young and I screwed up big time, I got a paddling on the bottom, and I made damned sure I never made that particular screwup again. It should be the same way for my kids. What does need to be eliminated is when the discipline is for trivial matters, and when it goes as far as becoming a beating. That's abuse, and should not be allowed.
Going back to the points about islam, I read an article a while back that described christianities barbaric ages and how they were strikingly similar to what islam is going through now. AS it stands, its basically civilized society versus islam at this point. Eventually islam will mature and those people will be ready to integrate with worldwide society at large. Some of them are already ready, and function just fine in modern day life. The problem is that so many of them think its okay, even going so far as to say its gods will, to force everyone to convert through violence. These are the people that need to be ostracized from the world, given no attention in any form of media, and just left alone.
As for governments... well, they need to get out of bed with their corporate masters. Government should exist to serve the people and safeguard their rights and liberties through as minimal an intrusion as possible. The way I see it, government has three legitimate functions at home: Maintaining order between people using as few laws as possible; providing essential services such as education, utilities, roadways, and affordable healthcare; and preserving the rights of the masses primarily by making sure the free market stays a free market through restrictions placed on large businesses, especially corporations, to make sure they play fair and are not given a chance to exploit people or the government for themselves.
Currently, the government does none of this. And thats the main problem.
However the author himself comes off at times as a right wing religious extremist, trying to define everything in the world in terms of right and wrong as set forth in the bible, when so much of the world just doesn't work that way. Gender, which I'm sure must have indeed been black and white when humanity was first coming to be, is no longer so due to chromosomal disorders, hormonal imbalances, and so on. Many of these diseses are probably caused or exasperated via man made means such as food additives, industrial chemicals, and so on. Gender unfortunately is a gray area at this point.
That, however, doesn't mean the homosexuals and transsexuals have to go around throwing their differentness in our faces. They should be held, by society, to the same standards of behavior as everyone else.
One point I do strongly agree with in the article is that the Family is the basic building block of society. The Family has been undermined constantly for decades, ever since at least world war two. The problem is that no one is home anymore to raise the kids, and when you want to be home with the kids, you have to be at work since you now need two earners per family to make ends meet, since everyone is expected to work, everyone gets less. If more people were home makers, the available pool of labor would be much smaller and each worker would get a larger sum, which would hopefully allow for a one-earner family system again.
I honestly don't care who stays home to raise the kids, as long as someone does. If the woman makes more money than the man, the man should be gracious enough to accept that and accept the gigantic responsibility of raising the kids. If the man makes more money, the reverse should be true.
I also believe some physical discipline should be allowed back in society. When I was young and I screwed up big time, I got a paddling on the bottom, and I made damned sure I never made that particular screwup again. It should be the same way for my kids. What does need to be eliminated is when the discipline is for trivial matters, and when it goes as far as becoming a beating. That's abuse, and should not be allowed.
Going back to the points about islam, I read an article a while back that described christianities barbaric ages and how they were strikingly similar to what islam is going through now. AS it stands, its basically civilized society versus islam at this point. Eventually islam will mature and those people will be ready to integrate with worldwide society at large. Some of them are already ready, and function just fine in modern day life. The problem is that so many of them think its okay, even going so far as to say its gods will, to force everyone to convert through violence. These are the people that need to be ostracized from the world, given no attention in any form of media, and just left alone.
As for governments... well, they need to get out of bed with their corporate masters. Government should exist to serve the people and safeguard their rights and liberties through as minimal an intrusion as possible. The way I see it, government has three legitimate functions at home: Maintaining order between people using as few laws as possible; providing essential services such as education, utilities, roadways, and affordable healthcare; and preserving the rights of the masses primarily by making sure the free market stays a free market through restrictions placed on large businesses, especially corporations, to make sure they play fair and are not given a chance to exploit people or the government for themselves.
Currently, the government does none of this. And thats the main problem.
Avder, I agree with you on almost all points.
re: physical discipline, I firmly believe that physical punishments, such as spankings, should be used as a last resort if the child does not respond to other tactics. This does not mean that I see a spanking as child abuse, I merely think there are much better ways to alter behavior. \"It worked on me and I turned out fine\" is no reason to refrain from finding a better way.
re: homosexuals and behavior, the GBLT community are held to the same standards of behavior as everyone else. Not everyone takes advantage of these standards to be so loud about it, most of the time. Personally, I feel that such behavior as gay pride parades are totally undignified and harmful to the GBLT cause, most of the time, but these things are the right of the GBLT community, just as they are the right of everyone else.
re: the family, I agree with you that parenting is very important. I believe that many problems with children can be traced to problems with parenting. I could go on for quite some time about this, so let me just make one important point: I feel that any group of one or more responsible adults can make effective parents, regardless of their real or perceived genders, marital status (or lack thereof), socioeconomic status, etc.
re: physical discipline, I firmly believe that physical punishments, such as spankings, should be used as a last resort if the child does not respond to other tactics. This does not mean that I see a spanking as child abuse, I merely think there are much better ways to alter behavior. \"It worked on me and I turned out fine\" is no reason to refrain from finding a better way.
re: homosexuals and behavior, the GBLT community are held to the same standards of behavior as everyone else. Not everyone takes advantage of these standards to be so loud about it, most of the time. Personally, I feel that such behavior as gay pride parades are totally undignified and harmful to the GBLT cause, most of the time, but these things are the right of the GBLT community, just as they are the right of everyone else.
re: the family, I agree with you that parenting is very important. I believe that many problems with children can be traced to problems with parenting. I could go on for quite some time about this, so let me just make one important point: I feel that any group of one or more responsible adults can make effective parents, regardless of their real or perceived genders, marital status (or lack thereof), socioeconomic status, etc.
One thing that I think is important above all with a family is consistency. You are around the same people who raise you and care for you and love you, almost every day until you are a young adult. Composition is less important than consistency. This is why divorces and single parents are so bad for kids. They don't have a stable structure to base themselves upon. The divorce turns everything upside down, and the single parent will be leaving the kid at day care or with different babysitters until they're 13 or so and old enough to be home alone, which they really shouldn't be until they are older, like at least 15 or 16.
Spanking as a last resort...I dont know. Depends on the severity of what they did, and if there was any intent. If it was an accident, a good shaming should do. If it was a HUGE accident, like something that causes severe damage to the home, or a car or something, then i say spank the kids ass till he cant sit down. If he did it INTENTIONALLY, then make damned sure he remembers it, and then send his ass to boot camp.
Spanking as a last resort...I dont know. Depends on the severity of what they did, and if there was any intent. If it was an accident, a good shaming should do. If it was a HUGE accident, like something that causes severe damage to the home, or a car or something, then i say spank the kids ass till he cant sit down. If he did it INTENTIONALLY, then make damned sure he remembers it, and then send his ass to boot camp.