socialist party, releases congressional members names.

[CUDA]

all Democrats, all card carrying members of the socialist party. why am I not surprised??
and if your thinking hey I dont see Pelosi's name. she is listed on prior role logs. she just probably forgot to pay her dues


http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/20 ... ir-caucus/

American Socialist Voter–
Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the DSA?
A: Seventy

Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the Judiciary Committee?
A: Eleven: John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee], Tammy Baldwin, Jerrold Nadler, Luis Gutierrez,
Melvin Watt, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Steve Cohen, Barbara Lee, Robert Wexler, Linda Sanchez [there are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are now members of the DSA].


Co-Chairs
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)

Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)

Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)

House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)
Hon. Madeleine Bordallo (GU-AL)
Hon. Robert Brady (PA-01)
Hon. Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Hon. Michael Capuano (MA-08)
Hon. André Carson (IN-07)
Hon. Donna Christensen (VI-AL)
Hon. Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
Hon. William “Lacy” Clay (MO-01)
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver (MO-05)
Hon. Steve Cohen (TN-09)
Hon. John Conyers (MI-14)
Hon. Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
Hon. Danny Davis (IL-07)
Hon. Peter DeFazio (OR-04)
Hon. Rosa DeLauro (CT-03)
Rep. Donna F. Edwards (MD-04)
Hon. Keith Ellison (MN-05)
Hon. Sam Farr (CA-17)
Hon. Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Hon. Bob Filner (CA-51)
Hon. Barney Frank (MA-04)
Hon. Marcia L. Fudge (OH-11)
Hon. Alan Grayson (FL-08)
Hon. Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Hon. John Hall (NY-19)
Hon. Phil Hare (IL-17)
Hon. Maurice Hinchey (NY-22)
Hon. Michael Honda (CA-15)
Hon. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
Hon. Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
Hon. Hank Johnson (GA-04)
Hon. Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Hon. Carolyn Kilpatrick (MI-13)
Hon. Barbara Lee (CA-09)
Hon. John Lewis (GA-05)
Hon. David Loebsack (IA-02)
Hon. Ben R. Lujan (NM-3)
Hon. Carolyn Maloney (NY-14)
Hon. Ed Markey (MA-07)
Hon. Jim McDermott (WA-07)
Hon. James McGovern (MA-03)
Hon. George Miller (CA-07)
Hon. Gwen Moore (WI-04)
Hon. Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Hon. Eleanor Holmes-Norton (DC-AL)
Hon. John Olver (MA-01)
Hon. Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
Hon. Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Hon. Chellie Pingree (ME-01)
Hon. Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Hon. Laura Richardson (CA-37)
Hon. Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
Hon. Bobby Rush (IL-01)
Hon. Linda Sánchez (CA-47)
Hon. Jan Schakowsky (IL-09)
Hon. José Serrano (NY-16)
Hon. Louise Slaughter (NY-28)
Hon. Pete Stark (CA-13)
Hon. Bennie Thompson (MS-02)
Hon. John Tierney (MA-06)
Hon. Nydia Velazquez (NY-12)
Hon. Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Hon. Mel Watt (NC-12)
Hon. Henry Waxman (CA-30)
Hon. Peter Welch (VT-AL)
Hon. Robert Wexler (FL-19)

[Heretic]

You find this surprising?

[CUDA]

You find this surprising?

oh not in the least.

but for several years now we've been pointing out to the Liberals on this forum that their party wants a socialist government. something that they have chided us for saying. well here's part of the proof.

[Tunnelcat]

Actually, I've known about Sanders, Kucinich, Franks and our own Peter Defazio being faaaar lefties for years. And Sanders is the ONLY Senator listed too! How in the hell is he going to influence anything? So I say, SO??????? You say liberals want a Socialist government? I'm sure they do, that's their political leaning. But they'll have a snowball's chance in hell doing it in this country with all the crazy, self-centered, self-serving, greedy, bought off, power brokers running things. If that's the case, WHY are you even worried?

Everyone has a political stance in this country, we're not ALL rightie wingnut free market unquestioning butt kissers. I happen to like what they stand for right now in this day and age when the Wall Street pigs and corporate power brokers are sucking all the wealth from the middle class and the moral righties are forcing their values on the whole country! We need a few Socialists in the mix as a balance against the corporate conservatives in Washington, so that all that wheeling and dealing will have just a smidgen of a chance of benefiting the common citizen that has no lobbying power or say with their vote.

I did notice ONE Democrat from Oregon that was NOT on the list and it doesn't surprise me, Senator Ron Wyden. He's just a DINO anyway, more of a corporate stooge that needs to have a party change.

[Krom]

Problem being that socialism isn't all that different from what we already have, a return to a truly competitive free market is what we really need. But the government is far too owned by corporate/special interest to affect anything like that.

[Will Robinson]

...I happen to like what they stand for right now in this day and age when the Wall Street pigs and corporate power brokers are sucking all the wealth from the middle class and the moral righties are forcing their values on the whole country! ....

Lol! You always throw in a bit of comedy don't you?
As if raising taxes would somehow not be sucking wealth from the middle class?!?

And as I sit back and observe things like The Nasty Skanks from Jersey and a thousand other suddenly acceptable for prime time whoredogging morally bancrupt productions I wonder just where is all this 'forced value' you speak of coming from again?!?

[Spidey]

Lol, if the right is forcing its moral values on everybody…I would sure like to see some sign of it.

I keep waking up in the same decadent country I went to sleep in.

[Bet51987]

.

[AlphaDoG]

SO???????

So if you are that into socialism I'm sure Venezuela is allowing migration. America love it, or leave it!

[Avder]

SO???????

So if you are that into socialism I'm sure Venezuela is allowing migration. America love it, or leave it!

In other words, those who do not share your viewpoint of things hate America?

[Ferno]

SO???????

So if you are that into socialism I'm sure Venezuela is allowing migration. America love it, or leave it!

you're asking her to accept your argument without question based on your belief that America can do no wrong.

Sorry dude, but you're trying to pull a false dilemma fallacy here. Can't let you get away with it.

[woodchip]

Hmmm...socialist. Isn't that what Russia was (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) when Uncle Joe Stalin ran the place and eradicated 50 million of his fellow countrymen. The place where the term \"Gulag\" was coined.

Isn't socialism what Hitler used to placate the workers and unions so he could gain control (though once he got power, Hitler screwed the workers and gave complete control to the business owners)?

Isn't socialist what Italy was under Mussolini?

Isn't socialism what Cambodia got under Pol Pot, \"We are building socialism without a model\"?

Yet here we have a list of Americans who somehow got themselves voted into office without, I suspect, their constituents knowing their core ideology. Do they somehow think they will be better than the Socialist leaders listed above? J.Edgar Hoover, where are you?

[null0010]

facepalm.jpg

[AlphaDoG]

In other words, those who do not share your viewpoint of things hate America?

Not at all I was implying, if you love socialism, you must have an ingrain hatred for the American Ideals.

you're asking her to accept your argument without question based on your belief that America can do no wrong.

I'm not asking her anything. Don't they teach punctuation in Canada?

Sorry dude, but you're trying to pull a false dilemma fallacy here. Can't let you get away with it.

Where's the false dilemma?

[Heretic]

facepalm.jpg

Need to learn bb code dude.

[Top Gun]

Hmmm...socialist. Isn't that what Russia was (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) when Uncle Joe Stalin ran the place and eradicated 50 million of his fellow countrymen. The place where the term "Gulag" was coined.

Isn't socialism what Hitler used to placate the workers and unions so he could gain control (though once he got power, Hitler screwed the workers and gave complete control to the business owners)?

Isn't socialist what Italy was under Mussolini?

Isn't socialism what Cambodia got under Pol Pot, "We are building socialism without a model"?

Yet here we have a list of Americans who somehow got themselves voted into office without, I suspect, their constituents knowing their core ideology. Do they somehow think they will be better than the Socialist leaders listed above? J.Edgar Hoover, where are you?

ITT Woodchip proves he's never taken a political science course.

[flip]

Isn't socialism in direct opposition to our current form of government? If so, then I'd think any any congressional member that professes to be a socialist to be no more than an insurgent. How can you profess to be a socialist and then wholeheartedly uphold democratic ideals?

[woodchip]

Hmmm...socialist. Isn't that what Russia was (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) when Uncle Joe Stalin ran the place and eradicated 50 million of his fellow countrymen. The place where the term "Gulag" was coined.

Isn't socialism what Hitler used to placate the workers and unions so he could gain control (though once he got power, Hitler screwed the workers and gave complete control to the business owners)?

Isn't socialist what Italy was under Mussolini?

Isn't socialism what Cambodia got under Pol Pot, "We are building socialism without a model"?

Yet here we have a list of Americans who somehow got themselves voted into office without, I suspect, their constituents knowing their core ideology. Do they somehow think they will be better than the Socialist leaders listed above? J.Edgar Hoover, where are you?

ITT Woodchip proves he's never taken a political science course.

Care to enlighten me instead of sounding all erudite?

[fliptw]

Hitler and Mussolini were fascists.

[Heretic]

Hitler and Mussolini were fascists.

Yes thats right Hitler was leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party Which brought about the term Nazism. Mussolini was the leader of National Fascist Party. Which brought about the term Fascism.

[[RIP]Machete_Bug]

Hitler and Mussolini were fascists.

Yes thats right Hitler was leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party Which brought about the term Nazism. Mussolini was the leader of National Fascist Party. Which brought about the term Fascism.

Both socialism and fascism require government control of a command economy where the rights of the state trump the rights of individuals. Two different flavors of the same disease, if you ask me.

[Heretic]

Exactly Upper elites have all the advantages lower echelons are oppressed. Oh wait that sounds like any governmental foundation.

[fliptw]

socialism is the system where collective ownership and direction for the maximum benefit of the whole of society.

fascism is the system where maximum benefit of society comes from unitary identity, strong leadership and ability to use war and violence to protect the state.

[Spidey]

Neither of which have anything to do with freedom.

[Ferno]

I'm not asking her anything. Don't they teach punctuation in Canada?

Have a look at your post again, and see if you should ask that question.

Where's the false dilemma?

Let me google that for you

[AlphaDoG]

I'm not asking her anything. Don't they teach punctuation in Canada?

Have a look at your post again, and see if you should ask that question.

Where's the false dilemma?

Let me google that for you

Ferno no disrespect, but I googled that shiz when I posted my response to you. Now point out the false dilemma or stfu.

[null0010]

Now point out the false dilemma or stfu.

America love it, or leave it!

[AlphaDoG]

Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus
Not to be confused with Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

This Latin phrase which, roughly translated, means \"false in one thing, false in everything\", and it is often used to label someone found to be wrong on one issue to also be wrong with regard to other issues.[4] This is a logical fallacy because being found incompetent in one respect does not imply that one is incompetent in all other respects. This is an example of an ad hominem argument and a special case of the association fallacy.

After this I'll just refuse to feed the trolls.

[null0010]

Um, what? I'm pretty sure Ferno was only trying to call you out on the one thing.

[Ferno]

Um, what? I'm pretty sure Ferno was only trying to call you out on the one thing.

yes i was.

a false dilemma is intended to paint only two solutions, when there are quite possibly more options available. Loving america for what it does, or leaving it, paints only two options.

And as for your Latin reply? incorrect. only intended to poison the well.

[Tunnelcat]

Apologies, everyone. I've been a little busy.

Hmmmmmmmm. Every economic system has it's downsides and problems, including ours with it's corporate infiltration of the government. However, I see Socialist Scandinavian countries like Finland and Sweden ranked higher than the U.S. in the latest Newsweek Best Country findings. So why is that?

http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2010/08/1 ... world.html

Will, you want to keep the Bushie tax cuts in place, fine. But something is going to have to be cut to lower the deficit. Social Security, Medicare and the Military are the main monetary hogs. So what gets the axe? If you say Social Security and Medicare, I'm willing to bet more than a few of the Tea Party idiots would scream bloody murder! If you want less taxes for individuals, you'll either have to cut social and military spending or raise taxes for corporate America.

Since we have around 10% unemployment in the U.S., we have a smaller pool of people that can pay income tax now too. Since quite a few of our well paid manufacturing jobs went overseas, that's not going to change anytime soon. What about skyrocketing retirement and health care costs? That's the main reason that the federal government and local municipalities are having major budget woes right now. It's starting to suck everyone's coffers dry. Between high unemployment and high health care costs, neither which has been addressed yet, these 2 items will probably be the cause of our eventual downfall as a country. Mark my words, Rome is burning.

[Spidey]

And Obama is fiddling.

[Heretic]

I thought the whole healthcare thing was fixed

[CUDA]

I thought the whole healthcare thing was fixed

It needs to be!! in a veterinarian sort of way

[Spidey]

I thought the whole healthcare thing was fixed

If by fixed you mean…going to get even more expensive…then yea, it was fixed.

[Top Gun]

Care to enlighten me instead of sounding all erudite?

I think I'll let you do your own Wiki research on how each of the governments you mentioned differed significantly from each other, and how at least half of them were truly "socialist" only as much as North Korea is truly a "democratic republic."

[AlphaDoG]

something is going to have to be cut to lower the deficit....

... the main reason that the federal government and local municipalities are having major budget woes right now.

Public sector pay packages, including final salary pensions which add 30 to 40 percent to their cost, are now 50 percent higher than equivalents in the private sector. This gap increased by 5 percent in 2009 alone, in the deepest recession since the 30s – private sector pay declined by 1 percent and public sector pay went up more than 4 percent.


I say let the pols eat cake!

[Tunnelcat]

And Obama is fiddling.

Yep, no leadership, and it's going to be his downfall in 2012.

Public sector pay packages, including final salary pensions which add 30 to 40 percent to their cost, are now 50 percent higher than equivalents in the private sector. This gap increased by 5 percent in 2009 alone, in the deepest recession since the 30s – private sector pay declined by 1 percent and public sector pay went up more than 4 percent.

So what do you think is going happen when all these public contracts are nullified or renegotiated by necessity and more and more people start having to pony up for prohibitive health care out of their meager base pay? A lot of people are going to get pissed off when they end up in bankruptcy or destitute because they had the misfortune to get sick. This will be even more of a drain on our already sinking economy. I guess that's what right-wingers want, force every worker to ratchet down their pay and bennies so that the American corporate pigs can make more profit for themselves. Trickle up economics. Nice system, oink, oink.

I noticed nobody commented on the "Best Country To Live In" results.

[AlphaDoG]

So what do you think is going happen when all these public contracts are nullified or renegotiated by necessity and more and more people start having to pony up for prohibitive health care out of their meager base pay?

They start to live like the rest of us perhaps?


Hey FERNO, notice the question mark?

Oh, and LMAO at that crap.

[Tunnelcat]

Repressed envy. The right-wing wedge issue to sink everyone to slave status in this country. You're being played for a sucker. You should be envious that the average top corporate CEO takes home an around 300% more in pay than their lowest paid worker within the company.

But before you yell at me, I agree that in these hard economic times, everyone must sacrifice pay and benefits, even those with older negotiated-in-good-faith contracts. It just seems that the burden is being placed on workers to sacrifice their wages and benefits when the top salaried corporate people aren't reciprocating in kind.