If Descent was revived/re-made...

[Firewheel]

...what would you like to see?

Personally I think it'd be great to incorporate suspense/survival horror elements to the game. The levels of D1 had a menacing, foreboding atmosphere that would be incredible as a modern game. Utilizing light/dark and placing some sort of restriction on headlight use would make this even better.

Varying gravity/atmospheres could also make for some interesting gameplay.

Nicely balanced weapons would be a plus. I think I'd go with these:

Basic Laser
Super Laser
Vulcan Cannon
Mass Driver
Plasma Cannon
Fusion Cannon

Concussion Missile
Flash Missile
Homing Missile
Proximity Bomb
Smart Missile
Mega Missile

More robot variety would be great. I like the idea of a robot with buzzsaws instead of claws that tries to sneak up on you. A robot with some sort of forcefield shield that would deflect your weapons would be interesting, too.

[Avder]

What I'd like to see in the next game is a mixture of all 3 previous games robots. AFAIK, only the Class 1 Drone shows up at all in Descent 3, and it was very sad.

I'd also like to see more weapon options. Bring back the old weapons from descent 1 and descent 2 that didnt make it into descent 3, as well as new primaries and secondaries. Have a loadout screen between missions so you can select which 10 primaries and which 10 secondaries you are going to take from the available (weapons youve found so far) pool.

Also, it really seemed like the bots in descent 3 were a lot smaller than the ones in d1/d2. While i like the improved AI of d3, I think increasing each d3 robots size a bit would be a good idea.

Also, a variable zoom lens for the sniping weapons.

Also, I wanna be able to see that guidebot die horribly again like I could in D2. Having him be on fire till he gets to the ship just isn't the same.

[Alter-Fox]

Long post warning:

I'd really like to see this too. Maybe not replicate the levels exactly, but have the same idea, and remixes/interpretations of the music (all the music, not like the Mac/PSX soundtrack, which missed most of the best songs).

...I like the idea of a robot with buzzsaws instead of claws that tries to sneak up on you.

There actually was one in D3, but it wasn't put in the Outrage levels for whatever reason (same as the starhawk). You can find it in one of Ron Lester's levels (Darkmoon I think, but I might be wrong). Also it replaces Tubbs in Pyromania (again, I might be wrong, Pyromania won't work for me anymore, so I can't check). You can also find it in the Onyx Secret Base level if you download D3 from Dateiliste. (I never officially released that level because I never officially finished it, just stopped working on it one day... Thomas decided to put it in anyway).

I like Avder's idea about the weapons loadout. As long as the same thing would work in add-on campaigns (i.e. if you finished the original campaign and then download an add-on, you won't automatically have all weapons to choose from at the start of that mission.)
One thing I'm curious about: how would you propose it to work if you, e.g., have all the original D1 primaries and secondaries equipped, but then you pick up your first helix cannon? Would you have to wait until the next level to equip it?

Getting access to all the ships from each of the game (plus some more) would be a plus too. Especially if there was a Pyromania-like multiplayer mode (where you could switch ships while playing).

Another idea for the weapons is that you get a different combination of ten weapons from D1, D2, and D3 (and some new ones) depending on the ship you choose. (And you could switch ships between levels). I guess 3 different sets of 10 weapons, which would be accessible from the same 10 pickups. The Pyro GX could have just the weapons from D1 (with maybe the possibility to switch some to all of them to D2 weapons, but with a drawback), and the Pyro GL could get the weapons from D3 (plus some new ones to fill in a 10-weapon set), and maybe the Black Pyro could function more like the Pyro GX (i.e., no dual fire missiles, crazy plasma etc), but it would have the D2 loadout with the ability to switch some of it for D3.
Non-Pyro ships could have a combination of the 3 loadouts and maybe the ability to switch them but with a drawback (maybe the weapons take extra energy, or reduce maximum shields, or (for light ships) they're too bulky and slow the ship down). In D3 the non-pyro ships were never as balanced as the Pyros, and the Pyros were the only ships that could flare on zero energy.

[vision]

Another idea for the weapons is that you get a different combination of ten weapons from D1, D2, and D3 (and some new ones) depending on the ship you choose.

Cool idea. I always thought it was dumb for a ship to have 10 different weapons. 5 seemed more than enough.

[null0010]

I'd limit weapon loadouts to 2-3 primaries and 2-3 secondaries. Maybe making lasers/concussion missiles required.

[Stroodles]

I'd limit weapon loadouts to 2-3 primaries and 2-3 secondaries. Maybe making lasers/concussion missiles required.

I kind of like this idea. Limiting to ten is not a restriction at all. Although, I would be more in favor if it was 3 IN ADDITION to laser/conc

[Avder]

I like Avder's idea about the weapons loadout. As long as the same thing would work in add-on campaigns (i.e. if you finished the original campaign and then download an add-on, you won't automatically have all weapons to choose from at the start of that mission.)
One thing I'm curious about: how would you propose it to work if you, e.g., have all the original D1 primaries and secondaries equipped, but then you pick up your first helix cannon? Would you have to wait until the next level to equip it?

Maybe when you pick up a new one for a primary or secondary slot that already has two weapons in it, you get the option of an on-the-spot (or very shortly after) one-time weapon swap to take one weapon from that slot out and put the new pickup in, and the unused weapon goes into like a cargo pod or something?

So, for an example, lets say we have a Spreadfire (D1), and Helix (D2) cannon in our 3rd slot, and we come upon the next generation of that line, the "Vortex Cannon", which also fits in the 3 slot. We could choose to equip that weapon now and put either the Helix or Spreadfire into our cargopod, or put the Vortex Cannon in the pod for use in later levels.

We could also say each of the 5 slots correspond to different weapon lines like 1: lasers; 2: kinetic weaponry/hitscan guns; 3: swirly energy; 4: superheated plasmas and 5: doomsday guns.

[Freakster]

I always liked the spread fire cannon. I think it was called the phoenix cannon? I can't remember it's been so long. I liked it because it was annoying, and it was fun to annoy with. I say if they did a re-creation of either Descent 1 or 2, they'd have to keep it JUST like the originals, just with more modernized engine. Maybe incorporate fog, flickering lighting and scary robot sounds for a horror element. Even robots that pop out around corners randomly, as well as patrolling AI to avoid that \"AI at attention\" factor. It'd be nice to re-visit D1 and D2, while the game is widely the same, add that horror aspect to the game.

[Sirius]

The Spreadfire cannon was called the Spreadfire cannon. There was also a Phoenix cannon, but it was a D2-only bouncy weapon.

[DarkFlameWolf]

which surprisingly is useful in a few situations, eh Sirius?

[Sirius]

No kidding.

[Alter-Fox]

umm...
????

[NUMBERZero]

I'd like to see it exactly in the style of Pyromania or just like it is now.

[dwlpunk]

they do this with movies all the time, and now remakes are becoming more apparent in video games as well. doom, wolfenstien, AvP. wouldn't it be perfectly feesable for a company to just remake descent and make it more of a classic spin off of d3/d2, more archady in the single and multiplayer. i mean it shouldn't cost that much for the property rights to descent. hell im sure i can find the change to buy it.

[TigerRaptor]

The smart proximity bomb were always a gag to use.

[Alter-Fox]

they do this with movies all the time, and now remakes are becoming more apparent in video games as well. doom, wolfenstien, AvP. wouldn't it be perfectly feesable for a company to just remake descent and make it more of a classic spin off of d3/d2, more archady in the single and multiplayer. i mean it shouldn't cost that much for the property rights to descent. hell im sure i can find the change to buy it.

Yah this is something I'd really want. And I'd want to make the music... I think I could stay true to the original style while putting my own spin on it.

[dwlpunk]

i thought the industrial music was a good choice. i remember seeing some of those bands live back in the 90's.

but i have faith. someone will bring back descent for the money. it wont be long till more and more publishers hop on the remake bandwagon and start forcing the developers to rehash old titles.

[Alter-Fox]

i thought the industrial music was a good choice. i remember seeing some of those bands live back in the 90's.

Bands? As far as I know only the D2 Redbook used music from actual bands.

I was thinking that I could do music that would be better than the boring ambient stuff in most of these remakes (like DooM 3 for instance). I could do something more like the music in original Descent.

As long as the publisher isn't Ubisoft... they've basically told me "get into a game from another company and then we'll consider you," when I applied for TrackMania 2. This despite the fact that most of the community wanted my music in the game.

[dwlpunk]

i was talking about descent 2. and going to see type o negetive at a slimy dive bar getting drunk.

[Neo]

I'd like to see what every other Zen Master likes to see: Balance. =P

[Alter-Fox]

Yeah, but that'll never happen in a video game.

[Neo]

Metroid Prime fans wouldn't agree with you. ^_~

[Avder]

Metroid Prime fans wouldn't agree with you. ^_~

Yeah, thats why theres a billion different versions of the first game and the only version a true hardcore fan wants to play is the North American first version which has the easiest method of performing Space Jump First.

Balance my ass.

[Behemoth]

D1 had plenty of balance.

[Alter-Fox]

I've never played D1 multiplayer, so enlighten me: back when it was played a lot, what were the biggest complaints?

Balance is subjective anyway.

D1 Single definitely didn't have the best balance: the fusion bots and the drillers and the homer hulks were out of proportion and way too powerful (that's my view).

[Sirius]

Probably homing missile tracking vs. framerate, I would guess. Mega missiles were accepted to be grossly overpowered for most games and so didn't appear much in levels... wasn't really much controversy over it. Apart from that, most of the weapons were about right where they needed to be.

[Avder]

If Megas had about half their tracking ability, and half the blast radius, they would be just about cool for every-day games.

[Lothar]

I've never played D1 multiplayer, so enlighten me: back when it was played a lot, what were the biggest complaints?

Once D1x fixed the framerate issues, there weren't any real complaints about the game.

People didn't include mega missiles, cloaks, or invulns in (most) serious 1v1 or anarchy levels. Everything else was reasonably common, and a good player would use every weapon effectively over the course of a game.

[Bet51987]

I would like:

1. Stunning graphics especially on the ships console.
2. Cloaking abilities (but unable to fire while cloaked).
3. More space oriented instead of mine oriented.
4. A bigger playing field.
5. Long range heat seeking missiles.
6. More \"Hyperspace\" levels (my fav)
7. Ability to have a copilot so one can fire while one flys.
8. Ability to land and exchange a damaged ship.

That's all I can think of right now.

And no I don't like those MMORPG games.

Bee

[Bet51987]

Edit doesn't work but I wanted to add this line..

Tranfer it all to D3 and kill D1 and D2. (sorry)

Bee

[Avder]

I would like:

1. Stunning graphics especially on the ships console.

Why so gitzy with the ships console? That would take away detail from the actual action. Besides, a simple, informative, non-intrusive HUD is a good combat HUD.

2. Cloaking abilities (but unable to fire while cloaked).

That sounds cool. Why not.

3. More space oriented instead of mine oriented.

Maybe if you can put the Pyro into a high speed jet and change the flying controls to more like a fighter pilot like in this mode (no sliding, for example), otherwise HERETIC

4. A bigger playing field.

D3 feels fricking HUGE compared to D1. Its already hard to hit anyone with anything besides vauss and mass driver.

5. Long range heat seeking missiles.

Okay, as long as they dont have a batshit insane turn speed.

6. More "Hyperspace" levels (my fav)

What, you mean like 4-D levels where you can literally be in one room that occupies the same coordinates of another room? Maybe in a multiplayer level or some kind of dimensional space lab...

7. Ability to have a copilot so one can fire while one flys.

This could be kinda cool.

8. Ability to land and exchange a damaged ship.

Maybe if you can bail out when your ship gets exploded, otherwise this would be too exploitable.

That's all I can think of right now.

And no I don't like those MMORPG games.

Bee

I think you might like EVE if you ever try it.

Tranfer it all to D3 and kill D1 and D2. Smile (sorry)

You got it mixed up. Kill D2, transfer it all to D1, and keep D3 as eye candy for people who really need shiny things. D1 >>>> D3 >>>>>>(times a million)>> D2

[Sirius]

Tranfer it all to D3 and kill D1 and D2. (sorry)

Would be with you if D3 had available source code, but since it doesn't, this isn't going to work. Assuming you mean pulling the D1/D2 playstyles/levels over to D3 so we don't need extra programs for them.

I don't think wide-open levels is really the point of Descent though. It basically renders at least two thirds of the weapons useless and degenerates the game to a target practice match with the rest. The ability within a layout to lose sight of your opponent is one of the prerequisites for the mental aspects of Descent (prediction, strategy, all the mind-gamey stuff) which is one of the best parts of the game. Furthermore, those slow energy weapons? They're more difficult to land hits with, which means you need to play the game smarter to win with them. I don't know about you, but I like the fact that you need more than aim and erratic ship movements to do well. It makes being good at Descent more of an accomplishment.

[Avder]

The only way to get kills with energy weapons in any of the games is to either get in melee range of the opposing pyro or be good enough at low/medium range to be able to construct a nearly inescapable wall if your chosen weapon.

I was getting beastly at doing just that with plasma when I up and quit the IDL for the final time.

Why did I quit the IDL, ultimately? Because I hated D2.

[Kida]

This is a hard question but what i would like to see is

1. a graphically rich engine, supporting all kinds of twisted mine shapes yet still haveing the ability to do outdoor flying, if anyone has ever played Teminal Velocity i think they did great w the outdoor areas in that game for the graphics available.
2. weapons i could care less as long as lasers and plasma dont go anywhere.
3. i want the ability to graft a secondary as a counter measure(either in game or before the map), say a rearward facing smart missle or homer
4. ALL the descent ships should be available, Pyro-GX, GL, AHT, Phenix, and Black Pyro.
5. As well as the ability to easily make your own ship which would not be available in multiplayer unless an option is checked to allow custom ships.
6. i would also like certain weapons to be ship specific, or have ammo restrictions like d3.
7. ive been messing w the idea of changeing the NRG to sheild converter to a Mass to NRG converter, we all know that if we pick up a weapon we already have it gives us extra nrg, but whered the weapons mass go?(unexplained mysteries of descent) In single player you should be able to pick up one of these devices and use them as such- Mass to NRG. But over 100 NRG you can use it in reverse to make shields, ammo, or missles. say 10 nrg for a single concussion or 25 nrg for some mass driver rounds, certain weapons should not be manufacturable, Shakers, B Sharks, Primaries.
8. There will be no bailing out or exchanging of ships, ive thought about this alot and it would just change descent too much. cause now youve introduced a part of the game that is now a typical ground pounder, does your character have weapons when he exits the ship? what will they be? whats your objectives on foot? do you still have to avoid robots and ships? and dont even get me started on the scale between a person on the ground and a pilot in a ship a small map in the ship would become huge as a person on the ground. its just a bad idea IMO to try and do this there are too many variables to try and work out, it would be like makeing a secondary game within the game.

[Bet51987]

Since working around the censor is ok now there was no reason to keep this post up.

Apologies
Bettina

[Firewheel]

So I've been plotting out more ideas on how I'd like to make Descent. I'll share a few over the next few days, starting with the ship and weapons and some basic gameplay details.

Ship And Weapons

The Ship: The pilot flies a Pyro-GX, closely modeled on the vehicle from the original Descent. It's equipped with powerful shields and an energy supply for its weapons, as well as afterburners and a headlight. It always carries lasers, which can be upgraded, and can hold two other primary weapons at once. It always carries concussion missiles, and can also hold two other types of missiles at once. Oh yeah, it also shoots flares.

The Pyro has an armored hull of up to 100%, which is damaged when the shields are pierced. Shields automatically regenerate up to 30% of their maximum after they're damaged below that – assuming you get some cover in time – but to boost them higher, find powerups or Repair Centers.

Unlike in the original Descent, the Pyro can be permanently upgraded with technology you encounter in the mines – you can expand the shield and energy tanks, weapon banks, and other tantalizing upgrades hidden in missions. You'll need these upgrades to survive progressively nastier enemies and hostile environments. Find afterburner expansion units and headlight mods to give you a further advantage.

Basic Laser: The simplest weapon. Medium fire rate, low energy usage. Can continue firing after reserves are depleted. Upgradable with various powerups – four power upgrades, quad laser, rapid fire, etc. The laser works against armor and shields, but not as well as specialized weapons.
Vulcan Cannon: The machine gun, the Vulcan Cannon has a high rate of fire and is incredibly destructive against armor, not so much against shields. Inaccurate at long range.
Gauss Cannon: The rifle, the Gauss cannon hits hard but has a rather slow rate of fire and low ammo. Bonus concussive effects. Good at any range, but doesn't have a scope.
Mass Driver: Similar to the Gauss Cannon, but harder to aim and causes more damage. As the sniper rifle, the Mass Driver is highly effective against unshielded enemies. Features a scope.
Spreadfire cannon: An energy-based shotgun, this weapon is effective against shields and armor at close range.
Plasma Cannon: Incredibly fast rate of fire, high destructive potential against most enemies, and large blast radius makes the Plasma a devastating weapon. However, it quickly eats up energy and is less efficient than upgraded lasers.
Fusion Cannon: A charge-based energy cannon, it is the most effective against shields when fully charged, and can melt through most armor. Basic fire is a large bolt of purple energy; charging it creates a sustained, white-hot beam blast.

Concussion Missile: Basic missile. Damages shields and armor. Large blast radius.
Flash Missile: Like concussion, but with a flash and slightly less damage. Sometimes disrupts shields.
Homing Missile: Like concussion, but with heavier punch and homing abilities.
Guided missile: Like the above, but guided – not quite as powerful, but tactically useful.
Smart Missile: Explodes with powerful impact before launching homing blasts of plasma.
Mega Missile: A powerful heavy bomb. Slower than homing missiles and not quite as good at homing.
Earthshaker missile: The most destructive weapon, a dumbfire thermonuclear bomb. It's very slow, but when it hits, it vaporizes most enemies in a wide radius.
Proximity Bomb: Deployable mine that can cause huge damage to anyone dumb enough to run into it.

There are also a variety of upgrades that can be found in missions to supplement the Pyro: some are necessary to progress, while others are optional. These include"

Heat Shielding: Protects your ship from high temperatures with a slight energy drain.
Gyro Stabilizers: Allows your ship to quickly maneuver in zero-G environments and vacuums. Otherwise, you're dead in a dogfight.
Cloaking Device: Can be deployed at will after picking up. Cloaks the ship from most enemies.
Invulnerability Shield: Can be deployed at will after picking up. Temporarily makes the ship indestructible. Good luck finding one of these!
Cloaking Generator: Allows you to cloak your ship at any time, at the cost of draining your energy reserves.
Invulnerability Generator: Allows you to make your ship invulnerable at any time, at the cost of draining your energy reserves very rapidly.
Motion Detection Sensor: A useful upgrade that helps to find cloaked bots.
Electrical Disruptor: Temporarily disables shields... including your own.
Shield tank: Found in increments of ten, designed to boost your shields past the 200-point initial limit.
Energy tank: Found in increments of ten, designed to boost your energy past the 200-point initial limit.
Shield-Piercing Rounds (Vulcan and MD): These make your ammo-based weapons more effective against shields.

[Isaac]

Maybe a 2d fighter, like Guilty Gear or Street Fighter, and you can be one of the robots or MD ships.

Like some universal moves could be:
(When facing right)

• → → after burn.
• ←↙↓↘→ (laser button)+(missile button) could be "after burner attack".
• HOLD for 2 seconds ↓+L+R could be "cloak".
• HOLD for 2 seconds (laser button) for charged "laser attack".

No one's ever done a 2d fighter with no ground! 360 of freedom fighter

[Firewheel]

Today I cooked up some ideas for robots: some re-imagined versions of old bots, others entirely new ideas.

Class 1 Drone: The original pest, now in varying degrees of viral infestation. Some are slow and dumb, while others attack you with wild abandon.
Class 2 Drone: This bot was originally designed to cut through rock with its beam rifles... now turned on your ship. Stay back, and these aren't terribly dangerous.
Medium Lifter: A re-design of the iconic robot, this green clawed nightmare is quiet and waits in the shadows to slice through you hull. Much faster and deadlier than before.
Class 1 Driller: A real nightmare, these pig-faced robots emit a terrifying shriek before shredding your ship with its high-powered Vulcan cannon. Not heavily armored or really fast, they can still do a load of damage before you manage to kill them.
Class Two Driller: These robots are the shock troops, heavily armored, slow, and equipped with plasma cannons. They like to attack you in groups and surprise you when you're pinned down and trying to hide.
Light Hulk: Slow-turning but fairly fast, these green bots have upgraded lasers and are dangerous at just about any range.
Medium Hulk: Larger and more heavily-armored than light hulks, these are brown and fire concussion missiles at a fairly high rate. Dangerous in groups.
Dread Hulk: These red mechs are heavily armored, smart, and unbelievably dangerous. Can launch a flurry of homing missiles and are very stealthy – and tough to kill. But they are slow and can be surprised. Easily one of the deadliest bots you'll face.
Mach Hulk: Even bigger than Dread Hulks, these bots are equipped with fusion cannons and can one hit kill your ship. The good news? They're slow and easily overwhelmed if you've got the firepower. Fight them in a big room.
Supervisor: Remember these nearly-harmless bots? They're back, and dangerous. Supervisors broadcast a magnified version of the transmode virus, causing any robots nearby to go berserk and act with much higher levels of aggressiveness.

Barrion: These bots have a weak low-powered plasma cutter but are shielded by an invulnerability shield that renders all but the rear of the robot invulnerable. Lots of these bots can be a major headache, especially if they're supporting stronger mechs. But they aren't really fast, so get behind them and take them out.
Chameliac: This rare robot is quiet and stealthy, camouflaging itself against rock walls until it's ready to strike at you with claws and a spreadfire cannon. Easy to kill, but dangerous if it gets the jump on you.
Toadie: This bot has a cloaking device and likes to hide, waiting for the perfect opportunity to shoot you with its mass driver. But it's not very tough to kill in a fair fight and is weak in close-range combat.
Gunslinger: This bot is equipped with fast-firing, low-powered rifles and will constantly try to out-maneuver you. Easy to kill in a small passageway, these bots can be irritating in large rooms. Herd them into corridors to take them down.
Corkscrew: This is a fairly basic robot miner that now turns its spinning drill on your ship. As long as it doesn't close in on you, not a huge threat, but trouble if it does. Watch out for variations of these that hide in lava.
Thief Bot: This robot can steal not only your weapons, but also ship upgrades. Be advised.
Tractor Derailer: These robots have no armament except for a tractor beam. They can use it to try and halt your ship, or push it around. Pretty much harmless on their own, this is one you'll want to get rid of quickly in a big fight.
Vampiriac: Inspired by the D2 energy draining robots, this new mech sinks its deadly claws into your ship and sucks out your energy reserves. Slow, but quiet.

Maximum Amplified Xenophobe: A revival of the criminally-underappreciated Vertigo mech, the MAX fires fast, homing flash missiles at you. Watch out.
Locomb: A large, slow, and dumb mech, it carries smart missiles. Stay behind it, and you'll be fine.
Zogus: This unfamiliar robot shoots mercury missiles at you. His shots are fast but movements are slow; stay and the move to avoid his shots.
Cravhen: Based on the dreaded green platform bot from D1, these guys shoot concussion missiles like a machine gun. Stay away from them in closed spaces. Fight or lure them into open areas, where they're much less dangerous.

[Alter-Fox]

It sounds to me like you're making every robot more dangerous than before.

I would not play a game with these enemies because I would not be able to finish it. D1 was already near impossible for me to finish on Trainee. Half of the enemies you're upgrading are now at boss power.

Fantasies are nice, but if you're thinking seriously, keep your audience in mind too (especially the influx of new people who would be needed to keep this game alive).

[Krom]

It sounds to me like you're making every robot more dangerous than before.

I would not play a game with these enemies because I would not be able to finish it. D1 was already near impossible for me to finish on Trainee. Half of the enemies you're upgrading are now at boss power.

Fantasies are nice, but if you're thinking seriously, keep your audience in mind too (especially the influx of new people who would be needed to keep this game alive).

Descent is so much fun and people stick with it so long precisely because it is more difficult than "casual games". Easy games are boring and don't have replay value. And Descent isn't even that hard once you have a polished and efficient control setup and the imagination to move in ways only Descent will let you. There are hundreds of members of this community that have beaten D1 on Insane, many more than once. It isn't impossible to beat by any standard, anyone even moderately skilled and willing to invest the time can beat the D1 campaign on Insane without even trying that hard. There is plenty of room to make it more challenging for the higher up players, many of whom can shred virtually any level of the D1 campaign on Insane quite easily.

The first time I played D1 SP I was a horrible player: I was keyboard only and couldn't do half the necessary movements for a dogfight at the same time because of keypress limitations, my only "skill" was shooting one side of my quad lasers around corners to pick off robots one at a time (and I knew exactly how many shots it took to defeat each type of robot), I could barely dual-chord and I still got through the whole campaign. By the time I had graduated to a keyboard and joystick control and gained experience from multi-player I could rampage through the D1 campaign on Insane like some unstoppable force of nature. The toughest robots in the campaign couldn't even slow me down anymore, even the boss robots are practically a joke compared to playing with higher level pilots in multi-player. The first time I dug in to beat the level 7 boss it took me hours on Trainee (and this was after they patched it easier), now I can tear it apart on Insane in seconds, in most runs it takes me longer to kill off the other robots in the room first. It was worth all the replays precisely because it was challenging enough that I could develop that kind of skill set over the time I was playing. I can quickly master lesser games and as a result I quit playing them because there is nothing left to do by the time I get through them once.