Descent Ladder Discussion

TOR_LordRaven · Post by **TOR_LordRaven** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:21 am

Does this interest anyone anymore?

Reason I ask is I have a new host, and Tons of Room, tons of bandwidth..

I was wondering if we started a new Descent Ladder.. (1 on 1, Team vs. Team, etc.) what kind of response or participation it would get.

If a new Ladder was formed with nothing but active players - would you join it ?

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:19 pm

Guess it wouldn't be a bad idea, since we know who would be sitting on top the entire time.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:33 pm

Want to.. would like to.. so I voted yes...

Will I ever have time to practice? Maybe in 4-5 years

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:10 am

Post it again with a different profile...

Back on topic, I'd be interested, I don't have too much time to play but I seem to be on Vortex more than most people (at least outside of veins, I don't go there because I hate that map). There are also many players who I play against regularly who don't go on any forums (I'd say most of the people playing now are like this actually). So all this rases the question: what constitutes an \"active\" player?

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:36 pm

I click this thread to read about a possible new ladder, and I find the ashen remains of a flamewar with an admin shaking his banhammer.

Way to stay on topic guys.

Anyway, I would be potentially interested in a new ladder, as long as playing only D1 is an option.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:19 pm

d1 d2 and d3 would be a more attractive option
in fact, having three different standings for each game might be interesting also, but if anything i would just prefer a modern IDL

TOR_LordRaven · Post by **TOR_LordRaven** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:51 pm

Lets return to the Topic at hand fellas. Take your Flamewar to another thread.

So yes: D1, D2, and D3 would all be options.

You can play All, Two, or just one.

I was thinking of a "General Rankings" where everyone is on the same page, then you can filter it based on D1, 2 or 3.

Team Games would be an option as well, for Team Skirmishes.

But a Clan Ladder would also be an option, and would work the same as the individual players where the GenRankings are listed but can be filtered by game.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:47 pm

I prefer the term "team" instead of clans, on the basis that we don't have alot of fresh blood around here so any team games will probably be played by old friends.
that said i'd love some scheduled team action to play

TOR_LordRaven · Post by **TOR_LordRaven** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:12 pm

So - lets put together some Charter Members and get this thing rolling.

Freakster · Post by **Freakster** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:15 pm

Is it rolling yet?

I actually enjoy the idea of ranking, I think it's something where people who do have the time on their hands to reach top have something to gloat about, and people who don't have the time have something to try to get ahead with.

However, and I do say this as a warning, I do see the possibility of, if "fresh blood" join, they're more likely to take advantage of the ship modification system. I mean, to add texture mods all you have to do is make the mod, essentially, no one else can see your modification. This give an excuse for "bright" players and auto-mousers, or some other form of hack/cheap modification.

Just something to look at. I know it, and similar things, happened back in the days of PxO. Though most players will be honest based upon their ties with the community, some new guys might not have that much to lose to begin with.

This is assuming modifications aren't banned, and hacking isn't filtered somehow, and ranking ladders meaning "who's #1 in this game-type".

Otherwise? Disregard this entire post because it's all a load of off-topic. Other then the yes, I would enjoy the idea.

Ryujin · Post by **Ryujin** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:52 pm

TOR_LordRaven wrote:So - lets put together some Charter Members and get this thing rolling.

I'm willing to help out with this effort. In fact, I have been tossing around the idea for a while to add this to DescentValhalla.com. I think I could put something together in a short period of time but I don't want to step on anyone's toes. The domain is there, the space is there, and the SITE is there. I'd just need to add a login system (which is easy) and the ladder code. It could be a great compliment to the leaderboards/stats features there now. So not only could you see your efficiency, kills, deaths, etc., but your overall ranking on a competitive 1v1 ladder. It could even be implemented in such a way so that players can have a D1 rank, D2 rank, D3 rank as you already mentioned, LordRaven.

I'd like to think we could get a group of us, perhaps myself, LordRaven, darktalyn, behemoth, koolbear, and whoever else. to agree on the rules and get this thing coded out. Perhaps we can set up a dedicated forum on this BB to work everything out.

Thoughts welcome. However it shakes out, I'd like to help out wherever I can. My talents are primarily coding and some limited experience playing on the old Case's 1v1 Ladder.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:36 pm

I think the best rules for a one on one Ive ever seen were the IDL rules of first to twenty, win by at least two.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:02 pm

Yes, Please stick to IDL rules.
Don't fix what isn't broken, and Ryu, i support you if you want to make a ladder, i think it's fitting.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:00 am

Who will have a copy of the IDL rules?

Ryujin · Post by **Ryujin** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:53 am

Thanks for the forum, KB. That was fast! I think maybe someone else should be a MOD, perhaps LordRaven or yourself but I'm not as concerned about that as I am about getting this thing off the ground.

I'd love to see the rules as well. Although I think if we end up copying the rules, I'd like to get permission from an IDL owner. Otherwise we'll need to come up with our own original ladder and rules. I also have to wonder, is this as easy as just having them revive the IDL? Has anyone asked them about it? Maybe we don't even need to recode anything if their system is good to go? Did it handle D3? Who are the IDL owners?

I am going to PM LordRaven to make sure he knows about his thread being revived.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:44 am

I think Sirian wrote the the IDL.I will review the descent history that Sirian wrote I found a ladder mod that will work with phpb
I agree we should see if we can revive the idl

[ Post made via Android ]

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:44 pm

Ryujin wrote:Thanks for the forum, KB. That was fast! I think maybe someone else should be a MOD, perhaps LordRaven or yourself but I'm not as concerned about that as I am about getting this thing off the ground.

I'd love to see the rules as well. Although I think if we end up copying the rules, I'd like to get permission from an IDL owner. Otherwise we'll need to come up with our own original ladder and rules. I also have to wonder, is this as easy as just having them revive the IDL? Has anyone asked them about it? Maybe we don't even need to recode anything if their system is good to go? Did it handle D3? Who are the IDL owners?

I am going to PM LordRaven to make sure he knows about his thread being revived.

The IDL handled all three descents, but it was all on the same ladder. It didnt matter if you beat someone in D1, D2, or D3, the result would be the same. If you want a D1 ranking, D2 ranking, and D3 ranking, you'll need a new system. Plus I think it might be constructive to have a discussion about how ranks are earned cause I never liked how someone could just join the ladder, get lucky, get into the top 5, and then take a week or two to drift back down to a middle level where he actually belonged.

Djcjr · Post by **Djcjr** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm

http://web.archive.org/web/199902031151 ... .org/~idl/

You'll find the IDL rules there. It's from 1999, but I don't believe much was ever changed.

Ryujin · Post by **Ryujin** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:01 am

Cool. I'm just skimming the rules but it seems like a lot of it might be overkill given we are not going to have very much interest here. Some examples including having 4 people accept someone into the ladder, etc. I also agree with Avder on the fact that we'll likely have to create a new ladder to accommodate different ladders for different games. I think we should start from scratch with a base set of simple rules. The only thing holding me back is interest. From the poll I saw, there was very little. Would you people play if the ladder had only 10 or less active players?

TobyCat · Post by **TobyCat** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:56 am

Hey Guys,

I was handed the keys to the IDL in about ~2000 and have managed it through it's final years. I've had the IDL barely alive for the past 4 years and it appears as though Warpcore has finally moved on. The original developer (Donut) wrote it in C AGES ago, and it doesn't work under a 64bit OS (issues with time structs). I'll do what I can to resurrect it on a 32bit VM somewhere for nostalgia's sake but realistically, competitive Descent has long faded away.

I see no issues with people wanting to use it, and if there is enough demand I can prioritize this a bit. I'm still a firm believer in its rules, what it stood for and the two tiered competitive system, so none of its cores would change.

I'll talk to Fathom (owner of warpcore.org) and see if he can redirect the IDL.

Cheers,
-TobyCat

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:52 pm

Yeah, i'd definitely play even if their was 10 or less, i was still active on the IDL before it crashed.
And toby, there weren't many recent D3 players that knew about the IDL at that point in time, if they had i'm sure we would've seen more activity.
I'm not sure raising it from the dead is the option we're looking for but even so i'd still love to see it back up

ADD: And btw, when i was mentioning the use of IDL rules i didn't mean make it an exact replica of the IDL, I don't believe at this point in time we need it to be invitational, there's just not enough players to count on these days like it was back in 95-96', i'll vouch for people joining, but i don't feel we need to make people wait forever before they get the chance to play because someone hasn't met them in chat or because none of the UT's have played with that person yet.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:18 pm

TC thanks for dropping in. Any of us are willing to do what it takes it would be nice to play a ladder game again

I have an old machine that I could donate to run it if it's easier than rewriting it.

Just let me know what needs done and I will do it. IF we are not able to resurrect the IDL can we plagiarize the rules if we give due credit?

Ryujin · Post by **Ryujin** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:21 pm

Yeah, I think we have to get away from invitation part. I think it was great back in the day when there was a lot of active players and interest.

I think we just have a simple login system using your player name, and you report your losses and it updates the system/rankings automatically. I don't think we should have Toby put a lot of effort into restoring the IDL on a VM, etc. I think we're better off recreating it ourselves at this point. Perhaps some rules will be similar to the IDL, but for the most part, this ladder should be designed from the ground-up to work well with a stagnant community. That is, something very simple and easy to join, understand what's going on, etc. I think Behemoth and I are on the same page with things and maybe we just run with it. If enough people express interest in this, I would consider programming it and hosting on DV. Of course, I can provide a DBB-themed page so you can see rankings on the DBB if you like, KB. I figure DV is logical since the stats are there as well. KB, I know you're worried about longevity of things, and I don't think there will be an issue since we both use Windows boxes. If something should happen to either of our sides, we could, in theory, host eachother's content anyway. Let me know what you guys think about this. If nobody wants it on DV, I won't waste my time.

I'd really like to hear from LordRaven on this too. He beat me to the punch on making a thread about it and talked about bandwidth, etc. I'd hate to be developing parallel efforts. Does anyone know how to get a hold of him other than PM? I PM'd him a couple days ago but haven't heard anything back.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Yeah, that's kinda the point i was trying to make only i felt it would've been unpolite for me to say i don't think the IDL should come back, it was great while it lasted, and if it did come back off the ground i would most definitely sign on, but months before it even crashed no one was doing any updates to the scores, i sent multiple emails and got nothing back.
I believe it should be simple and easy, and at the same time give due credit to the players that earn it, i liked the IDL medals that you could earn and would love seeing something like that implemented if possible.

Anyways, i'm on board and as soon as it's up and running sign me up, i'll help test stuff out.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:39 pm

Ryujin, sounds great to me. as I think your site a logical choice.

It would be excellent if the DBB could display the stats since I should be at the top of the anyway

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:28 pm

haha, i love a competitive attitude

SpudPuddle59 · Post by **SpudPuddle59** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:39 pm

I am for a ladder.. I would definitely be an active member on it.

flip · Post by **flip** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:21 am

I would definitely be an active member on a ladder. I'd love to see my name right up top there above pudspuddle and beheMYTH's name

.
You punks gotta play some D1 and D2 too though.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:18 am

D2 all the way!

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:20 am

i'll take you both anyday in all three.

flip · Post by **flip** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:38 am

Hehe that's what she said

. I tell you what. We play all 3. Start with D3. I win 2 out of 3 I get to pick your avatar.

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:43 am

lol, interesting proposal but i've never had an avatar on this site or the other so why should i start now ;p
but i will play you 2 out of 3 since i love being called out

meet me on kali later

SpudPuddle59 · Post by **SpudPuddle59** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:49 am

Hahaha! Let's get this ladder started and then we'll see who's on top

JazzyJet · Post by **JazzyJet** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:47 pm

You can't start a ladder without Jazzy! Count me in

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:14 pm

ATTENTION: BeheMYTH

Uhm I was serious

. I'll take my beating in your hungry hungry hippos game, but don't expect to win in mine

.

IsAB · Post by **IsAB** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:05 pm

I sure would play in it.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:25 pm

Ok, I have purchased two separate ladder programs and have them setup for testing but I am having problems with getting the admin account to work on one.. http://ladder.koolbear.com

The one that is functioning has three options for scoring currently points, rating or rung-up. See http://lad.6dofbb.net/ This is a test site running and we need some testing/feedback and admins to run with it.

We need to form the ranks with ...
Admin(s)
...
...

We need rules

Decide what versions of which games will be supported....

What maps will be acceptable (this allows everyone to get familiar with a map before a game) maybe all maps are allowed?

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:29 pm

I'll help out, PM me

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:14 pm

Behemoth wrote:I'll help out, PM me

Sent

JazzyJet · Post by **JazzyJet** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:56 pm

That site looks really good. I think the old ladder was to 10.......20 gets too long in my opinion and 10 gives a good chance of an under dog win. I would say both parties need to agree on a level or else you could have a list of levels that the under dog could pick from. People usually play the regular levels like kata and indika but it would be cool if we could get a server that we could change the level to some of the less played levels.

I remember back in the day there was a site we could go to, to make a server however we wanted. Is that still possible or anyone know how it was done?

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