What Shariah means:

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:01 am

Speaking of dysfunction:

* 14-year-old Hena Akhter was found guilty of adultery and sentenced to 101 public lashes under Shariah law.
* She died from being flogged — despite Shariah law being outlawed in Bangladesh — but doctors tried to cover that up.
* Her family claims she was raped by a cousin.
* Police are now investigating the incident.

Up until her last breath, young Hena Akhter declared her innocence. But that didn’t matter. The 14-year-old Bangladeshi Muslim girl was lashed to death, accused of adultery.

The imam at the local mosque said she was guilty of having an affair with a married man. Her family said she was raped. The imam disagreed. He ordered a fatwa: 101 public lashes. She lasted only 70.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/muslim- ... -adultery/

Do we want shariah in our country?

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:05 am

Explain to me how shariah law will supplant the Constitution and other laws of the land.

Until you can adequately do that, this is just baseless fearmongering.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:36 am

Null, if you'd read the article you would know that it didn't even "supplant" the laws of the land it occurred in. They did it anyway. Tell that girl's family that it's baseless fear mongering, you son of a ★■◆●. Shariah "law" = opportunity for abuse of religious power, not justice. That's enough for me. I for one am set against Shariah law in my neighborhood, city, and on a broader scale my country.

These people live under Shariah law, so in that way it's their problem, from a certain perspective, but I wouldn't put up with that bull★■◆● where I live. Over here it would have been an obvious case of rape whether or not it was consensual on the part of the 14-year old girl! I believe that's known as statutory rape.

"Fear Mongering?" It doesn't make me afraid, it makes me very angry.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:08 am

We already have four hundred thousand fifty one and a half laws that supplant the constitution…so what’s one more.

Phhhtt.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:12 am

it's already started

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:08 am

Wow, X2 everybody except null.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:05 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Tell that girl's family that it's baseless fear mongering, you son of a ★■◆●.

This is entirely uncalled for.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Over here it would have been an obvious case of rape whether or not it was consensual on the part of the 14-year old girl! I believe that's known as statutory rape.

Yes, it would be. And if anyone stoned her to death as a result of that I think they would be charged with murder pretty quick.

Spidey wrote:We already have four hundred thousand fifty one and a half laws that supplant the constitution…so what’s one more.

Our system of criminal and civil law does not supplant the constitution:

sup·plant
/səˈplænt, -ˈplɑnt/
[suh-plant, -plahnt]
–verb (used with object)
1. to take the place of (another), as through force, scheming, strategy, or the like.
2. to replace (one thing) by something else.

CUDA wrote:it's already started

This looks like an example of arbitration, which is and has been legal in the United States for a very long time.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:28 pm

null0010 wrote:
CUDA wrote:it's already started

This looks like an example of arbitration, which is and has been legal in the United States for a very long time.

It is a case of Arbitration. but apparently your missing the first line of the Notice

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE THIRTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA CIVIL DIVISION

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:55 pm

Allowing any form of sharia law here would mean the start of a state religion and a reverting back to a Church of England style tyranny.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:03 pm

Null wrote:This is entirely uncalled for.

Your initial reply to the topic is what was uncalled for. You had it coming in trivializing the topic.

Null wrote:And if anyone stoned her to death as a result of that I think they would be charged with murder pretty quick.

Was that a misguided attempt to attack my faith in the face of my anger at the mistreatment of a young girl by a religious system that you claim is roughly equivalent? You want to talk about uncalled for?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:09 pm

Guys, chill.

No one here is supporting rape or murder or any other shariah atrocity.

--------------

The fundamental issue here is what effect shariah has in U.S. law enforcement.

Null has a point, in that legally-speaking, shariah "law" is not law at all here. It's considered international code, and it's NOT binding. The commonly-heard suggestion that says "Muslims could get away with rape/murder/etc.!" is just hype. If someone stones a girl in the U.S., they're going to be tried for murder.

However, Cuda has a point in bringing up the case where shariah came into play during domestic civil arbitration. I can see how that could be problematic, especially if arbitration agreements started conflicting with established laws meant to protect people. It's certainly not a good precedent for a community to see their own rules as above the laws of the land.

Recently, the state I grew up in (Oklahoma) voted to enact a law which allows zero consideration of international precedent in any arbitration whatsoever. This bothers me, becuase it not only impacts shariah (which isn't really even a problem in OK), it impacts every arbitration involving international issues, like adoptions. The measure passed, mostly due to being hyped as counter-shariah. There has to be a better way.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:45 pm

No one said anyone was supporting it. Null just calls it nothing. In the face of atrocity portraying the threat as harmless is a very dangerous thing.

Foil wrote:The commonly-heard suggestion that says "Muslims could get away with rape/murder/etc.!" is just hype. If someone stones a girl in the U.S., they're going to be tried for murder.

If someone stones a girl in the middle of town they'll be tried for murder, but just because Muslims in a non-Islamic country can't do their stoning in town-square doesn't mean that there's no danger from the encroachment of this oppressive ideology. All sorts of things are perpetrated in non-Islamic countries, and then covered up by the Muslim community through coercion and fear, I guarantee it. It's happened before, it'll happen again, and its not confined to Islam but it is indisputably happening in Islam.

I don't ask that we protect Muslims from themselves, but I insist that Islam and Sharia Law be called what they are, for the sake of ourselves and those involved, instead of perpetuating the politically-correct lie that its a harmless and even peaceful ideology. How dare anyone with the heritage of the U.S. legal system, as imperfectly as it is carried out at times, give space to something that is so prone to injustice and the dictates of imperfect men corrupted by positions of power.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:40 pm

I've cooled down a bit, and I admit "son of a ★■◆●" was uncalled for. I feel like you were guilty of mischaracterizing the topic, more than anything. I guess everything TB posts must be understood and dealt with only in the light of his Islam "fear-mongering" with no attention to the issue it addresses?

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:23 pm

TB posts must be understood and dealt with only in the light of his Islam "fear-mongering"

There's no fear mongering when it's the truth. We shouldn't be shocked when islamists try this crap here (and they already have) against all common human decency- not to mention our sovereign law and respect for human life.

People seem to get all hot and bothered about white supremacists- islam and its barbaric "law" is far more of a threat to our way of life than any other ideology.

-That it's disguised as a "great religion" makes it all the more insidious. It should not be respected in any way.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:28 am

Bet51987 wrote:I'm with Thorne. Sharia Law should always be called for what it is and should never be treated casually or given humane characteristics in any way. It's a violent law of a violent religion.

Bee

I'm more of a fan of yours every day.

I think the point of it is:

null0010 wrote:Explain to me how shariah law will supplant the Constitution and other laws of the land.

Until you can adequately do that, this is just baseless fearmongering.

Kinda fingers-in-ears, no-no-no they are nice.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:03 pm

ThunderBunny wrote:There's no fear mongering when it's the truth. We shouldn't be shocked when islamists try this crap here (and they already have) against all common human decency- not to mention our sovereign law and respect for human life.

People seem to get all hot and bothered about white supremacists- islam and its barbaric "law" is far more of a threat to our way of life than any other ideology.

-That it's disguised as a "great religion" makes it all the more insidious. It should not be respected in any way.

Being a woman, I'd fight it to the death anyway. I already have to deal with Christian paternalism, but Sharia would NOT BE ACCEPTABLE as a basis for U.S. law. But TB's warnings are not without some merit. Muslims ARE trying to get some of these laws applied in Europe and Canada, all in the name of respecting multiculturalism.

http://www.hudson-ny.org/368/sharias-in ... r-own-good

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:25 pm

As far as I know there are already Muslim communities in Europe that the police don't even enter and are governed by Shariah.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:06 pm

Behemoth · Post by **Behemoth** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:07 am

I agree, More americans need to be aware of things like this, and need to start drawing the lines between multicultarism and BECOMING a different society thats left without any of its core values.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:03 am

I don't know about the rest of you red blooded American males, if I saw a women being stoned, I go and stand over her, the .45 comes out and I tell the crowd my stones are bigger than yours. I suspect Silver FJ and a few others, knows exactly where I'm coming from.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:55 am

Lol…that would mean that you were probably in the middle east…and I doubt that .45 would be enough.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:52 am

I'm sorry Woodchip, but I couldn't be party to that, no matter how heinous the crime.

It's gonna have to be a .40 cal.

You don't have to be able to take out the whole crowd for a hand-gun to be an effective deterrent. If these people were brave they would declare war instead of killing civilians. You could always erode their confidence by assuring them that there are no virgins in Muslim heaven under 300lbs.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:23 am

So I take it you guys must come across a lot of attempted stonings in your day-to-day lives?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:29 am

No you don't.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:48 am

...do what now?

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:36 pm

woodchip wrote:I don't know about the rest of you red blooded American males, if I saw a women being stoned, I go and stand over her, the .45 comes out and I tell the crowd my stones are bigger than yours. I suspect Silver FJ and a few others, knows exactly where I'm coming from.

A determined crowd wouldn't let you get off two shots before you had stones impacting your face and impairing your motor skills. Don't kid yourself. Even a single stone thrown can be deadly.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:09 pm

Whether it should statistically work or not is not the point. But a group of men who have dragged a woman out into the street to be stoned are planning on throwing stones at a defenseless woman, not the alpha-male wielding a gun. Anybody else want to anal-ize the scenario?

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:16 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Whether it should statistically work or not is not the point. But a group of men who have dragged a woman out into the street to be stoned are planning on throwing stones at a defenseless woman, not the alpha-male wielding a gun. Anybody else want to anal-ize the scenario?

I think anyone with even an ounce of sense would recognize that an "alpha male with a gun" is a greater threat. Depending on the level of fanaticism within the crowd, the "alpha male" would either be killed for defending a sinner, or the crowd would disperse.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:28 pm

I'm still wondering where this scenario comes from in the first place, other than random chest-thumping, since none of you are ever going to be in a position like this anyway.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:03 pm

No need to get all hurt, TopGun. Sometimes its good to make or voice a determination, even if a situation may never happen where we are. Feel free to jump in with your caliber of choice so you're not left out.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:16 pm

null0010 wrote:
woodchip wrote:I don't know about the rest of you red blooded American males, if I saw a women being stoned, I go and stand over her, the .45 comes out and I tell the crowd my stones are bigger than yours. I suspect Silver FJ and a few others, knows exactly where I'm coming from.
A determined crowd wouldn't let you get off two shots before you had stones impacting your face and impairing your motor skills. Don't kid yourself. Even a single stone thrown can be deadly.

Since it is clear you do not know what you are talking about, I suggest you look up some IDPA vids to see what a shooter is capable of. Shooting at 3 fixed targets I could double tap them each in 3 seconds. Not sure If I still can as it's been a couple of years since I last competed. No dis-respect but the problem with folks like you null, is they tend to navel gaze and think the rest of the people take as long to do something as they would.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:21 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:No need to get all hurt, TopGun. Sometimes its good to make or voice a determination, even if a situation may never happen where we are. Feel free to jump in with your caliber of choice so you're not left out.

Nah, I think I'll leave the testosterone-venting to those of you who seem to get off on it.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:31 pm

Top Gun wrote:I'm still wondering where this scenario comes from in the first place, other than random chest-thumping, since none of you are ever going to be in a position like this anyway.

Gonna go ahead and agree with Top Gun here.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:12 pm

woodchip wrote:Since it is clear you do not know what you are talking about, I suggest you look up some IDPA vids to see what a shooter is capable of. Shooting at 3 fixed targets I could double tap them each in 3 seconds. Not sure If I still can as it's been a couple of years since I last competed. No dis-respect but the problem with folks like you null, is they tend to navel gaze and think the rest of the people take as long to do something as they would.

now let's see you do that when the adrenaline is raging, under fire and you have maybe a tenth of a second to decide on targets.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:54 pm

Ferno wrote:
woodchip wrote:Since it is clear you do not know what you are talking about, I suggest you look up some IDPA vids to see what a shooter is capable of. Shooting at 3 fixed targets I could double tap them each in 3 seconds. Not sure If I still can as it's been a couple of years since I last competed. No dis-respect but the problem with folks like you null, is they tend to navel gaze and think the rest of the people take as long to do something as they would.
now let's see you do that when the adrenaline is raging, under fire and you have maybe a tenth of a second to decide on targets.

Not to mention the people in the crowd who are likely to rush you once you run out of bullets for killing their friends and neighbors.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:01 am

another thing: You'd probably would have six shots total. two will likely be misses and two would most likely be outside of center mass.

so that means you'd only take down two people woody and then be out of ammunition before the rest close in on you. not a good scenario to be in.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:44 am

another thing: You'd probably would have six shots total. two will likely be misses and two would most likely be outside of center mass.

Yeah, that's why you bring a FLAME THROWER.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:07 am

Ferno wrote:another thing: You'd probably would have six shots total. two will likely be misses and two would most likely be outside of center mass.

so that means you'd only take down two people woody and then be out of ammunition before the rest close in on you. not a good scenario to be in.

Well I guess my other option would be is to take out my cell phone, make a quick vid, post it on the net and talk about what a tragedy.

I never was good at just standing by when someone was injured or intimidated. The alternative of standing by and doing nothing would eat at me the rest of my life. If one takes the time to analyze a situation the way some of you are, then you will never intervene. If you can live with that, so be it.

SilverFJ · Post by **SilverFJ** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:51 am

My main pack is a snubnose Ruger .357 Mag that I keep loaded with hollow bear-shot. If there was about 25 people stoning said girl, I would shoot one of them anywhere in the head and the head would be gone. Hell, I could shoot you in a single finger and it'd take your hand with it. I know you liberal types like to put your faith in the angry mobs and the "vengeful oppressed", but the truth is that people in said mobs are chicken ★■◆●, or else they wouldn't need a mob. I blow off the guy's dome next to you, you are going to run the hell away as fast as you can, along with the rest of the herd. Ignorant people (especially mobs) are like cows, and you could learn a lot by just watching cows. Most people think it's a pain in the ass to herd, but the truth is, if you can get that one cow through the gate, the rest will follow it. Stop thinking of this situation with the girl like a statistical video game.

And as for testosterone chest-pounding, let me be the first to say if I ever had to pop somebody over that kind of situation, I would probably cry all day.