Free Speech, is just a "great idea" - but...

[Nightshade]

So this is what it comes down to. We're ready to throw our right to freedom of speech in the fire to burn in the fire of muslim hatred just because we're afraid of what they may do?

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wants an investigation into Koran burning. Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer suggested that this form of free speech could be banned. Senator Lindsey Graham is also looking for ways to limit free speech, saying, "Free speech is a great idea, but we’re in a war".

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/04 ... icaps.html

Limiting our rights. What a great response to a savage enemy that wants to destroy our rights as they stand.

[flip]

Hell I said they were easily controlled

[Ferno]

Habeas corups was a good idea.. but we're in a war.

"What a great response to a savage enemy that wants to destroy our rights as they stand."

First it was 'they hate us for our freedoms'. now it's 'they want to destroy our rights'.

[flip]

First off let me say you got balls Ferno. To stand up and state your views in such opposition is commendable. Aside from that, your arguments are weak and spurious, lacking any real substance. I don't even feel a real need to respond to your posts as they seem more emotional than thought out. Jeez man make me work for it. Find something of substance to dispute my ideology. Otherwise it's just a sarcastic quip that benefits no one.

[woodchip]

Interesting juxtaposition between WW2, where propaganda posters abounded depicting Japanese and Germans as less than human, to today where even the thought of doing anything that might anger jihadist terrorists has to be squashed. The responses in TB posts are ridiculous in light of the anger having occurred in foreign countries. Nice to see no violent protests here. I would go along with what is being proposed if they also include flag burning and bible burning as part of the proposed law.

Maybe everyone here should burn a Koran causing such a turmoil that all the nut cases would go into a huge frenzy and solve the War on Terror in one big mass killing spree.

[Will Robinson]

The same government who burned it's own soldiers bibles out of respect for the enemies religion apparently has no room for respect for the Christians in our military in their rush to appease the radical Muslim contingent now seeks to corrupt our freedom of speech as a means to stop the burning of the enemies holy book?
And by doing these things the net result isn't pacifying the enemy but rather we establish a willingness to submit to the enemies terror tactics which certainly encourages more attacks.
This is supposed to keep our soldiers safe?!? Short sighted, reactionary and just plain stupid is the only description for a policy like this!

Stop electing people trained to make bad decisions and use the manipulation your emotions and greed to justify the results!!

[Foil]

I tend to agree with you guys on this one.

I think it's asinine and irresponsible to intentionally incite a response by burning the qu'ran... but I think cutting back our freedoms is entirely the wrong solution.

[Whitewater]

I tend to agree with you guys on this one.

I think it's asinine and irresponsible to intentionally incite a response by burning the qu'ran... but I think cutting back our freedoms is entirely the wrong solution.

Perhaps in the long term you're right, but in the short term I think it works. It's one thing to allow KKK rallies and things like that. Yes, people get very pissed off and there are often riots, but very rarely do these ever turn into slaughters. The Islam extremist have shown they will go far beyond that. I think it's in people's best interest to temporarily forgo inciting anything further until a plan of action is made. There really is no simple solution. Either America prohibits future burnings to prevent another massacre or they try to eliminate the extremists which is expensive and likely comes with a high cost of civilian life in the middle east.

[Will Robinson]

Perhaps in the long term you're right, but in the short term I think it works. ...

In the short term it and in the long term the same result takes place, they are encouraged to continue attacking in the name of their gods pride. When a soldier starts to win on the battle field he pushes forward to capitalize on his success.
Our military burning bibles in Afghanistan gave us no relief from the enemy. Our passing this proposed reduction in our freedom of speech will give us no relief from the enemy. It will continue the perception that Americans will submit to terror.

At best you can say some attacks won't have happened when they did but you won't remove the propensity for those individuals to be spurred into murder-mode by the manipulation of the Islamo-facsist leadership. The attack on the barracks in Lebanon, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, the attack on the World Trade centers back in 1993, etc. etc. were not the result of someone in America burning the Koran or mentioning that Muhammed was a murderous hate monger. They were the result of our basic way of life and supporting that way of life amongst allies in the middle east being an affront to their radical beliefs.
when we give in they push forward.
I wish our civilians knew better than to poke them in the eye without some gain for our side to come from it but I don't see how that inefficient application of resistance is good cause for us to surrender anything to the enemy and encourage him at the same time! It is a net loss for us in the short and long term.

[Whitewater]

Perhaps in the long term you're right, but in the short term I think it works. ...

In the short term it and in the long term the same result takes place, they are encouraged to continue attacking in the name of their gods pride. When a soldier starts to win on the battle field he pushes forward to capitalize on his success.
Our military burning bibles in Afghanistan gave us no relief from the enemy. Our passing this proposed reduction in our freedom of speech will give us no relief from the enemy. It will continue the perception that Americans will submit to terror.

At best you can say some attacks won't have happened when they did but you won't remove the propensity for those individuals to be spurred into murder-mode by the manipulation of the Islamo-facsist leadership. The attack on the barracks in Lebanon, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, the attack on the World Trade centers back in 1993, etc. etc. were not the result of someone in America burning the Koran or mentioning that Muhammed was a murderous hate monger. They were the result of our basic way of life and supporting that way of life amongst allies in the middle east being an affront to their radical beliefs.
when we give in they push forward.
I wish our civilians knew better than to poke them in the eye without some gain for our side to come from it but I don't see how that inefficient application of resistance is good cause for us to surrender anything to the enemy and encourage him at the same time! It is a net loss for us in the short and long term.

While I agree it would be fantastic if people were smart enough not to intentionally incite the radicals, it's simply not the case. There are far too many stupid people who want to make a name for themselves. These are the type of people who care little or not at all about the victims. I only support it in the short term because this helps to take some of the idiots out of the equation. If there was some kind of legal punishment, that might deter these types from making such a stupid decision.

[Behemoth]

Compromising our constitutional rights will do nothing beneficial for us whatsoever.
The idea that we can pacify the enemy into becoming less volatile is futile and wishful thinking, If one is to defeat the enemy you must first break the image of himself that he projects to others, Which includes their interpretation of the qur'an, in which they overexert the ability to apply violent force whenever they believe necessary.

I'm not condemning their faith, But I do believe there is more to it than just killing anyone who does not agree with them, their faith, or their way of life.
Also, as it is, I also believe that actively burning something sacred to ANYONE is intolerable and should be avoided at pretty high cost.. (Obviously violating our undeniable rights doesn't fall into this category)

But, since we are in wartime right now and I do not see the end of it coming in the near future, The government will use anything they can to manipulate public opinion and even cause many to think that it's better to give up your rights and what you stand for, than to just die for fighting for what you believe in.

In my opinion we all are aware of how much those who are in power struggle their entire lives to keep and exert that power over those with less, and this violation of our laws in the purpose of their best interest only further goes to show me that they care only about themselves.

[Will Robinson]

...
.. I only support it in the short term because this helps to take some of the idiots out of the equation. If there was some kind of legal punishment, that might deter these types from making such a stupid decision.

But if the Islamo-fascicts weren't killing people in reaction to the actions of idiots burning their book you wouldn't think changing our freedom of speech laws is a good idea. So it isn't the free speech that is the problem....as ill advised as that speech is it isn't what needs to be changed to solve the actual problem and capitulation only makes the problem expand.

[SilverFJ]

I've decided to get a big stack of Koran's, douse them, and burn the suckers. Put it on YouTube. I'll make sure to put the link on here.

[Whitewater]

...
.. I only support it in the short term because this helps to take some of the idiots out of the equation. If there was some kind of legal punishment, that might deter these types from making such a stupid decision.

But if the Islamo-fascicts weren't killing people in reaction to the actions of idiots burning their book you wouldn't think changing our freedom of speech laws is a good idea. So it isn't the free speech that is the problem....as ill advised as that speech is it isn't what needs to be changed to solve the actual problem and capitulation only makes the problem expand.

Creating a law is a heck of a lot simpler than trying to convert radicals. Even if it came to the point of killing all the radicals, there would be a lot of innocent deaths and extremely high financial burden. You control what you can control and make your decisions based on that.

[Spidey]

What happens when these people get offended by everyday things we all do in our daily lives?

No wait…..

[flip]

Heh, they become a little like us, we become a little like them

[Behemoth]

See the thing is, You give a little and they expect 10x more out of you.
Never give in to someone whose only desire is to inspire fear in the minds of the majority.

[Whitewater]

See the thing is, You give a little and they expect 10x more out of you.
Never give in to someone whose only desire is to inspire fear in the minds of the majority.

So you keep giving them an excuse to murder more?

[Whitewater]

I've decided to get a big stack of Koran's, douse them, and burn the suckers. Put it on YouTube. I'll make sure to put the link on here.

So you've decided to endanger yourself and your family? Seems more than just a little stupid.

[Will Robinson]

See the thing is, You give a little and they expect 10x more out of you.
Never give in to someone whose only desire is to inspire fear in the minds of the majority.

So you keep giving them an excuse to murder more?

In order for your comment to be logical we have to accept the premise that someone burning a book in Florida is a legitimate reason to murder someone in Afghanistan! Sorry, I can't follow you down that rabbit hole.

[Behemoth]

No, There is NEVER a good reason to take someones life, whether on a battlefield or during a local gas station holdup.

I accept the reality that the way the world is nowadays is shaped by how much political "muscle" you can flex. But, in this ever-increasingly secular society we live in, it'd be nice if we could appreciate some of the finer things of culture without it being forced down someone elses throat.

I've said before i don't believe any amount of foreign presence in the middle east will change the way i believe they should conduct their lives, which has worked fine for the past several thousand years. Democracy in the middle east is just a half baked pipe dream, that doesn't belong, nor bear any weight in reality.

[Top Gun]

I've decided to get a big stack of Koran's, douse them, and burn the suckers. Put it on YouTube. I'll make sure to put the link on here.

Hey, man, there are better ways to compensate for your deficiencies. They have all kinds of pills for that now.

[Ferno]

First off let me say you got balls Ferno. To stand up and state your views in such opposition is commendable. Aside from that, your arguments are weak and spurious, lacking any real substance. I don't even feel a real need to respond to your posts as they seem more emotional than thought out. Jeez man make me work for it. Find something of substance to dispute my ideology. Otherwise it's just a sarcastic quip that benefits no one.

I work with what i'm given. And if you think that was ballsy? you haven't seen anything yet.

besides, debating ideology is futile, since ideology stems from belief. and no matter how hard I try, I can't change what someone believes in. and by posting what i have, it illustrates the trend in what people will do when told certain things. One piece of advise: if you see a one line quip, it usually reflects the time I choose to donate to a certain thread.

you remember the reactions people had when they were told that their freedoms were being attacked, do you not?