F%^#ing stop enabling them please!!

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:12 am

If you vote for a republican or democrat in a national election you are part of the BIG problem.
Don't tell me about single issues you can't go against..abortion...taxes...whateverthemanipulationtool they use on you...
If you do it you are shooting yourself and all of us at the same time and not just in the foot either!

I sit down to do my taxes today and notice this:
GE is forced to give back $3,002,000,000 tax refund. that is 3.2 billion in case zero's aren't as impressive as the word BILLION to you.
They apparently only made 7% profit (read: couldn't hide the last 7%) on their empire thanks to our politicians writing chapters full of exemptions like growth hormone injections into the largest living evil organism on the planet, known as the Tax Code.

If you vote for even one of those bastards, even a freshman who just got in there last year you are accepting this rape of your backside like a willful idiot!!

You can't possibly make things worse by voting for the spaghetti monster or any other candidate that isn't a maemebr of the R's or D's and YOU WILL make a difference if you take my advice and VOTE THEM ALL OUT!

Think of this as a voice shouting down to you from someone standing on the edge of the quicksand pit telling you to grab the rope NOW!!!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:55 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18221

So they gave it back? Heh, I smell a shareholder lawsuit incoming. Only a matter of time before they sue saying "You lost us 3.2 billion in profit!".

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:10 am

"General Electric called an earlier media report Wednesday that it would repay a $3.2 billion tax refund to the Treasury Department a "hoax."

"Members of an activist group calling themselves the "Yes Men" claimed responsibility for the hoax, according to a report from Reuters"

"It's a hoax and GE did not receive a refund," said Deirdre Latour, a GE spokeswoman"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42570045

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:21 am

LOL! I guess I'll take every article I read from "The Associated Press" with some extra grains of salt from now on...

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:47 am

Vote for a third party and you might as well not vote at all, unfortunately.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:31 am

null0010 wrote:Vote for a third party and you might as well not vote at all, unfortunately.

That's a self-perpetuating thing, though. I made the mistake last presidential election of voting for one of the big two, out of a dislike for one, not because I really did like either one.

Next time, I'm not voting for a candidate that I don't like. Maybe it's throwing out my vote, but my hope is that voting third party will begat itself.... the more people like me that "throw out our votes" this time, the less of a throw away it will hopefully become as it gains traction.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:20 pm

snoopy wrote:
null0010 wrote:Vote for a third party and you might as well not vote at all, unfortunately.

That's a self-perpetuating thing, though.

Yeah, and it will continue to be. There is no realistic solution.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:32 pm

not until all these conniving idiots have their cushy benefits removed.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:32 pm

null0010 wrote:Yeah, and it will continue to be. There is no realistic solution.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:47 pm

true enough. but I haven't met anyone willing to actually get their hands dirty; they'd rather sit at home, stuffing their face with quarter pounders while watching jersey shore.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:32 pm

Ferno wrote:true enough. but I haven't met anyone willing to actually get their hands dirty; they'd rather sit at home, stuffing their face with quarter pounders while watching jersey shore.

Sadly on this I have to agree.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:46 pm

Agreed.

... But are "third-party votes won't make a difference" / "wholesale revolt will never happen" really valid excuses?

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Foil wrote:Agreed.

... But are "third-party votes won't make a difference" / "wholesale revolt will never happen" really valid excuses?

No.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:34 pm

I've decided that unless I like the Democrat running a lot I'll probably vote Green Party. I've adopted the sentiment that if enough people vote Green, we could have a real third party that matters.

Then again, I could just be blowing this out of my ass as I've never voted.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:55 pm

The effort the two parties have gone through to squelch the voice of, or assimilate, any rising third party threat should be enough proof to you that it could make a difference.
And, as to: 'a vote for a third party and you might as well not vote at all...'
If you are causing them (no matter which side you are on currently) to lose a vote then you are already dealing them a blow. If you instead give a vote to a third party-threat to them you have delivered a one-two punch. If a few brave kids on the school yard stand up to the bully and punch at him some of the not so brave will stand up too...pretty soon the bully has been beaten down or he turns tail and runs off.

It is a really good climate politically and socially in this country to push for this sweeping change.
If this was a group of share holders discussing the management of a company we own we wouldn't be scared to fire the lot of them we would recognize that it is a survival tactic that was going to hurt a bit but it has to be done. Our management team has been robbing us blind, destroying our companies future and leaving us in deep deep debt. Do you want to keep their system of management intact?!? they have to be stopped! If not us who? If not now when? After the second coming of the great depression has sucked the life out of us? There won't be a recovery like there was after the first one! The conditions in the world have changed. We will be toast if we let it get that bad!!

And WTF? with the fake news?!? I read it twice and looked twice to be sure it wasn't April 1 or the Onion...
I guess, knowing the whole corporate welfare tax code thing so well it was easy to believe they got caught with their pants down and tried to head the public relations debacle off at the pass that I swallowed it hook line and sinker.
Props to who ever pulled it off! It was a message well sent!

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:10 pm

true enough. but I haven't met anyone willing to actually get their hands dirty; they'd rather sit at home, stuffing their face with quarter pounders while watching jersey shore.

Heh, I've actually had people say this to my face.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:13 pm

Ferno wrote:true enough. but I haven't met anyone willing to actually get their hands dirty; they'd rather sit at home, stuffing their face with quarter pounders while watching jersey shore.

perfect summation of reality. And, were they able to pull away from the distractions, ir wouldn't really be all that dirty. Just a bit of involvement. If people actually keep on the elected weasels, er, officials and hold them accountable at the ballot box, things will improve. If real citizens, with real everyday concerns, start running for school boards, party committee positions, local governments, in a generation or two you might have a pool of responsive leaders to draw from. I am not discounting the massive corrupting influence of money, but a responsible leadership might be able to legislate that under control, if the people kept at them.
Sadly, the above words are but a pipe-dream in today's America. We have become so shallow, selfish and stupid as a culture, we will likely continue to sow the seeds of our own doom. Mandarin, anyone?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:33 pm

callmeslick wrote:...
Just a bit of involvement. If people actually keep on the elected weasels, er, officials and hold them accountable at the ballot box, things will improve. If real citizens, with real everyday concerns, start running for school boards, party committee positions, local governments, in a generation or two you might have a pool of responsive leaders to draw from. I am not discounting the massive corrupting influence of money, but a responsible leadership might be able to legislate that under control, if the people kept at them.
Sadly, the above words are but a pipe-dream in today's America. We have become so shallow, selfish and stupid as a culture, we will likely continue to sow the seeds of our own doom. Mandarin, anyone?

I would just add to that the total failure of the free press to hold itself above partaking in the power broker game and/or allowing itself to make partisan based content control decisions the vast majority of wool the elected thugs pull over our eyes would be called out and the perpetrators run out of town.
The greatest weapon we have is the freedom of the press. Too bad no one bothered to specify they are not free to participate in electioneering, campaigning and cover-ups!! I guess back in the day of the powdered wig and wooden teeth when the freedom-of-press was put in words no one ever imagined the press being anything but a viscous dog out to consume all liars of any stripe.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:14 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I would just add to that the total failure of the free press to hold itself above partaking in the power broker game and/or allowing itself to make partisan based content control decisions the vast majority of wool the elected thugs pull over our eyes would be called out and the perpetrators run out of town.

actually, a glance at US history would show that we have always had a partisan press. It is just that we used to have a citizenry that was bright enough and involved enough to not accept it wholesale.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:37 pm

The real problem is, what good decent citizen would ever want to subject him/herself to the eviscerating muckraking that running for public office entails? Sarah Palin being the perfect example.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:44 pm

callmeslick wrote:...we used to have a citizenry that was bright enough and involved enough to not accept it wholesale.

When was this? Seems to me that propaganda was accepted more readily in the past.

(Granted, it's less overt these days, and folks are a little lazier about news, but I think the overall U.S. population generally has better information.)

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:53 pm

Maybe I should consider writing in candidates, but the reason why I didn't vote in the 2010 election was because there wasn't a single third party on the ballot, and most races (particularly the governor's)* created a travesty of an election season.

* I wish Gary Johnson would run again now that his term limit has expired.

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 pm

Dakatsu wrote:I've decided that unless I like the Democrat running a lot I'll probably vote Green Party. I've adopted the sentiment that if enough people vote Green, we could have a real third party that matters.

If enough people vote Green, then the Republicans will win every office in the land. Unfortunate reality.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:59 pm

snoopy wrote:
null0010 wrote:Vote for a third party and you might as well not vote at all, unfortunately.

That's a self-perpetuating thing, though. I made the mistake last presidential election of voting for one of the big two, out of a dislike for one, not because I really did like either one.

Next time, I'm not voting for a candidate that I don't like. Maybe it's throwing out my vote, but my hope is that voting third party will begat itself.... the more people like me that "throw out our votes" this time, the less of a throw away it will hopefully become as it gains traction.

I think you're right on. Good topic, Will. It's become even more abundantly clear to me that the changes/solutions promised by the big two are not anywhere near enough, and I think you're right that it's in our interest not to support them. Ron Paul is looking better and better. Even it a Ron Paul presidency wreaked seeming havoc on our foreign policy it would still put more power into the hands of the American people. I think we'd be deliriously happy with such a trade-off.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:06 pm

"Don't blame me...I voted for Kodos!"

null0010 · Post by **null0010** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:11 pm

Only a move to a proportionally representative system of voting could possibly make this dream a reality. Of course, that will never happen with two parties in power.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:33 pm

woodchip wrote: Sarah Palin being the perfect example.

yes, she is......of something terribly wrong with our nation.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Foil wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...we used to have a citizenry that was bright enough and involved enough to not accept it wholesale.
When was this? Seems to me that propaganda was accepted more readily in the past.

(Granted, it's less overt these days, and folks are a little lazier about news, but I think the overall U.S. population generally has better information.)

I am not saying we do not have access to far more, and far more timely, information. However, I look at my parents, and my late grandparents and others from that time frame(all born 1880-1925). Every last one of them had a good grasp of civics, paid attention to the news, viewed reporting and editorializing with a jaundiced eye and were involved citizens. Those on my mother's side were not exactly born into any elite class, either, but worked their way up from poverty. Learning, with those generations was a life-long activity, and keeping current and informed a point of pride. Voting was viewed as a sacred privilege and knowing what they were voting for(or against) a point of pride,as well.
Going back even further, one can glean the idea from the early years of this nation that the core of the citizenry that voted was quite informed and very involved. Of course, voting was more limited then....perhaps we just have gone downhill since we gave up that bit about limiting suffrage to white male property owners(yes, I'm merely being sarcastic).

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:45 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Ron Paul is looking better and better. Even it a Ron Paul presidency wreaked seeming havoc on our foreign policy it would still put more power into the hands of the American people. I think we'd be deliriously happy with such a trade-off.

so, a nation with no central spending on research or infrastructure, nor outlays for any sort of social safety net for anyone, nor any regulation on any business or commercial practice is your little slice of nirvana?Thanks, but I'll pass. Heck, I'll not only pass, but spend a ton of money if I thought that loon had a prayer of winning a national election,to fight the candidacy.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:47 pm

null0010 wrote:Only a move to a proportionally representative system of voting could possibly make this dream a reality. Of course, that will never happen with two parties in power.

yet, our voting system has served the nation quite well, indeed, for over two centuries. Further, parties have actually gone out of existence in that time. The thinking behind our electoral system is actually brilliant, IMO.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:30 pm

callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote: Sarah Palin being the perfect example.
yes, she is......of something terribly wrong with our nation.

And that being a partisan press which, no matter who is running against the Dems or makes them look bad (Like Joe the Plumber), will savage them like so many hyenas on fresh meat.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:36 pm

callmeslick wrote:
Sergeant Thorne wrote:Ron Paul is looking better and better. Even it a Ron Paul presidency wreaked seeming havoc on our foreign policy it would still put more power into the hands of the American people. I think we'd be deliriously happy with such a trade-off.

so, a nation with no central spending on research or infrastructure, nor outlays for any sort of social safety net for anyone, nor any regulation on any business or commercial practice is your little slice of nirvana?Thanks, but I'll pass. Heck, I'll not only pass, but spend a ton of money if I thought that loon had a prayer of winning a national election,to fight the candidacy.

Callmeslick, I don't know where you get "any regulation on any business or commercial practice". I do know that he has been opposed to tariffs, and I don't think I agree with that.

I tend to think we could do without "central spending on research". I believe that business could fund research much more effectively, and what business misses universities and other learning centers may pursue.

Infrastructure is what taxes are for. I don't know where you get that either.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:50 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I tend to think we could do without "central spending on research". I believe that business could fund research much more effectively, and what business misses universities and other learning centers may pursue.

Infrastructure is what taxes are for. I don't know where you get that either.

And where do you think that universities get most of the money they need to pursue all the research that they conduct? If you guessed "the federal government," you're right.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:37 pm

callmeslick wrote:...

yet, our voting system has served the nation quite well, indeed, for over two centuries. Further, parties have actually gone out of existence in that time. The thinking behind our electoral system is actually brilliant, IMO.

Lol! Yea the two parties who have taken control of that system served us up a series of real winners haven't they while keeping people who aren't beholding to them from even getting on the ballot in some cases and certainly too underfunded to compete with the puppets they prop up in all cases.

There was nothing wrong with the system until it became corrupted by the virus called DNC/RNC.
People who say things like 'We can't vote third party because the other assholes will win an election" are just too damn short sighted. Haven't you noticed you lose the election every couple of cycles anyway! And you got Bush and Obama last two times around!! and look who is in Congress!!! For crying out loud! IT ISN'T WORKING!!
Saying you can't fix it by voting for anyone that isn't a shill for the guys holding your country hostage is like saying 'If man were meant to fly he'd have wings'. Borrow some frikkin testicles please!

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:48 am

woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote: Sarah Palin being the perfect example.
yes, she is......of something terribly wrong with our nation.
And that being a partisan press which, no matter who is running against the Dems or makes them look bad (Like Joe the Plumber), will savage them like so many hyenas on fresh meat.

well, it's refreshing that no such thing is EVER directed at Dems or progressives of either party, huh?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:53 am

Sergeant Thorne wrote:[I tend to think we could do without "central spending on research". I believe that business could fund research much more effectively, and what business misses universities and other learning centers may pursue.

Infrastructure is what taxes are for. I don't know where you get that either.

you might wish to read and listen to Ron Paul far more carefully. Essentially, he feels that government is not obligated or entitled to do much at all beyond defense, basic control of interstate commerce and criminal justice system. Most everything else, he eschews, at least as I've read him to date. It would be a recipe for the dissolution of the nation that would send us to third-world status in a generation or two.
On the matter of research, those of us in the biological sciences can tell you what has resulted, post-Reagan, to basic research in an era where most of the money comes from business. It isn't good, at all.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:57 am

callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote: And that being a partisan press which, no matter who is running against the Dems or makes them look bad (Like Joe the Plumber), will savage them like so many hyenas on fresh meat.

well, it's refreshing that no such thing is EVER directed at Dems or progressives of either party, huh?

Not to the same degree. If one said anything bad about Obama when he was running, that person was labeled a racist.

[quote-tags were broken, fixed by moderator]

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:00 am

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...

yet, our voting system has served the nation quite well, indeed, for over two centuries. Further, parties have actually gone out of existence in that time. The thinking behind our electoral system is actually brilliant, IMO.
Lol! Yea the two parties who have taken control of that system served us up a series of real winners haven't they while keeping people who aren't beholding to them from even getting on the ballot in some cases and certainly too underfunded to compete with the puppets they prop up in all cases.

There was nothing wrong with the system until it became corrupted by the virus called DNC/RNC.
People who say things like 'We can't vote third party because the other assholes will win an election" are just too damn short sighted. Haven't you noticed you lose the election every couple of cycles anyway! And you got Bush and Obama last two times around!! and look who is in Congress!!! For crying out loud! IT ISN'T WORKING!!
Saying you can't fix it by voting for anyone that isn't a shill for the guys holding your country hostage is like saying 'If man were meant to fly he'd have wings'. Borrow some frikkin testicles please!

I don't know where or how you read my comments as not supporting the concept of more than two parties.
I merely suggested that our voting system is fine, at it's core. What has become fecked is the local/state
regulations to register for elections. In Pennsylvania, for example, it is virtually impossible to run as an independant. I think the number of petition signatures one has to produce is like 2% of the vote in the prior election cycle for the office. In other words, to run for Governor, one would have to produce a petition signed by 40,000 people. Then, said petition would have to go through legal challenge from the major parties that would make the cost of getting onto the ballot massive, were it doable. And yes, the two major parties are behind such regulations, to entrench their own power.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:03 am

woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote:And that being a partisan press which, no matter who is running against the Dems or makes them look bad (Like Joe the Plumber), will savage them like so many hyenas on fresh meat.

well, it's refreshing that no such thing is EVER directed at Dems or progressives of either party, huh?
Not to the same degree. If one said anything bad about Obama when he was running, that person was labeled a racist.

[quote-tags were broken, fixed by moderator]

please, get real. More absolute garbage has been hurled Obama's way than any candidate I can ever remember(starting with the birth issue, his religion, a host of ignorant crap). A glance at virtually every Senate or House race will show the GOP side to be a garbage machine, hurling made-up lies at the Dem candidates. I just went through such a campaign for a state-level bye election around here. The GOP candidate never did state what he supported, but outside money papered houses with made up BS to attempt to smear his opponent. It didn't work, but they tried.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:01 am

Yea, I’m not detecting any bias.

Good ole middle of the roader.