Filters and Four-letter words

[Foil]

Given the recent explosion in this thread and the new DBB functionality supporting a user-selectable language filter, I believe it may be time for a discussion about the subject of language, filters, and four-letter words.

...thoughts?

[flip]

I say let people be as they are. The filters are in place to censer if "one so chooses".

[Will Robinson]

I didn't realize for the longest time that the filter was in our control, it was only recently that I noticed someone mention it and it dawned on me. I guess I had mine turned on by default. I used to type in characters like F@#$ when trying to make a point with anger or exasperation not knowing for sure the filter would have stopped it anyway.

One thing I noticed about myself after finding out the filter was under each viewers control, I started using worse and worse language. I guess because I thought if you see it it's because you want to. But I don't use that kind of language in person so I'm not sure what to think about my new foul typing-mouth.

Maybe part of it is I don't speak with the same vocabulary as I use when I type something for someone else to read. It is just an unconscious effort to make it more interesting I think to use a broader and more colorful lexicon...I've probably never pronounced lexicon out loud in my life. So maybe I subconsciously saw the user-controllable-filter as license to use worse language.

I think I'll try to go back to behaving online the way I do in person as far as foul language goes.

Not sure what any of this means but there I go.

[CUDA]

flip I agree to a point. this is a two way street. if someone needs to be respectful by allowing someone to "be as they are". then in-turn those that need to be as they are also need to be respectful of the others that they might offend by being that way. there needs to be respect on both ends. it cannot be all one way.

[null0010]

Language is language. The filter is there to shield the eyes of those who don't want to read that sort of thing. If someone has their filter off and still gets all bent out of shape because someone said a mean old bad word, that's their problem. The entire forum shouldn't have to bend to the will of a minority of users who can't exercise their own personal responsibility. It's childish. Reminds me of parents who write letters to television executives asking them for stop showing "inappropriate material" on television, completely ignoring the fact that it's simpler to just monitor what their children watch.

[CUDA]

Language is language.

sometimes

The entire forum shouldn't have to bend to the will of a minority of users who can't exercise their own personal responsibility. It's childish.

and what about the few members of this forum who are abusive with their language and go out of their way to abuse the filter, who's the childish one then?
there has to be a meduim. if it's just a word or two then I'd agree, but that's not the case with a select few.

[flip]

No I agree wholeheartedly but this whole discussion hinged on someone being colorful while expressing his self. I saw no disrespect initially, just disdain. Had the circumstances been as you described, then I'm sure there would be a more general consensus, but I digress .

[null0010]

and what about the few members of this forum who are abusive with their language and go out of their way to abuse the filter, who's the childish one then?
there has to be a meduim. if it's just a word or two then I'd agree, but that's not the case with a select few.

Abusing the filter is one thing; posting in such a way that bypasses the filter's functionality should not be tolerated at all, and abuse and insults towards other members should at the very least be frowned upon. But banning the use of a word is ridiculous.

[CUDA]

I think we are in agreement on that

[Jeff250]

posting in such a way that bypasses the filter's functionality should not be tolerated at all

I haven't seen people intentionally doing this, but I haven't been keeping a close eye. If you see someone intentionally or accidentally evading the filter, hit the "report post" icon in the lower right of the post. A lot of us mods browse with the filter off, so the evasions aren't always apparent to us. For accidental evasions, we can probably just get the filter list updated. Intentional evasions will be dealt with appropriately.

[Gooberman]

Because sometimes 'wtf' doesn't suffice to describe the conservative content located here.

[Jeff250]

Adults think it's ok to swear, except around kids. Kids think it's ok to swear, except around adults.

I know some new parents who trained themselves to say "frack" instead of "★■◆●" around their infant. Note how the sequence of sounds is a little different. I bet their infant will someday thank them for it, after it learns language.

[flip]

I admit my language has been a little loose lately. After reading a little bit of Ephesians last night, I realized that I could probably clean it up a little bit and still get my point across, but I defer to Gooberman here. I see at least 99% of this board as intellectual and wanting to share their thoughts with others and get the same in return. It makes it easier to get a sense of the truth and also where your thoughts stand with the general population. DBB. com and net is the only places I post because I feel these places are just a cut above the rest for legitimate sharing of ideas. I want to hear peoples thoughts, whatever they may be. I just see no equity in thinking highly of someone who say, has an abortion because it's the easy way out, and then look down on someone for saying " ". It doesn't make sense in the big picture. It's like saying do whatever you like, just don't talk about it.

[CDN_Merlin]

I don't swear at home (11 yr old daughter) and I swear sometimes outside home. On the DBB, I don't swear much. I prefer not having to read posts with swear words every 3 words because it reminds me to much of trailer trash. I see and hear enough on city buses and it's disgusting to say the least. If someone is trying to get out some fustrations I don't m,ind but if they are just saying it always, then i think it's wrong.

My 2 cents

[null0010]

I don't swear at home (11 yr old daughter) and I swear sometimes outside home. On the DBB, I don't swear much. I prefer not having to read posts with swear words every 3 words because it reminds me to much of trailer trash. I see and hear enough on city buses and it's disgusting to say the least. If someone is trying to get out some fustrations I don't m,ind but if they are just saying it always, then i think it's wrong.

My 2 cents

Do you use the profanity filter?

[CDN_Merlin]

I believe I do because I've never changed it. So if it's on by default it's on.

EDIT: I just checked and it's set to not censor.

[CUDA]

The profanity filter is not the issue. the issue is about being considerate towards your fellow board members. in both directions. the Profanity filter is NOT a cure all.
if you know by swearing your going to offend someone. then why do it?? this is no different than using racial slurs. it's offensive to some people so why do it?
conversely do not take overt offense at the use of profanity, people have a certain amount of freedom of speech, and you cannot regulate your standards on them. but bear in mind this is a privately owned forum and there are limits to that freedom.

[Krom]

Last week I was taking a walk and saw what looked like a mother and daughter (or perhaps sisters) walking their dog in the nice weather and I thought "So young families still go out for walks here in America, that's nice..." and then they spoke. An older man parked next to a nearby driveway and the two of them went up to the truck to talk to him, the younger girl started talking about "the ★■◆●ing garage" and other colorfully named entities. I think America in general is getting more liberal with language these days.

[flip]

I think the swear filter is a good medium. It let's everyone,whatever their beliefs, to continue to participate. I've done much worse than saying the word ★■◆●. If we were honest with ourselves, we could be honest with others. You ever said the word '★■◆●' just once Cuda? If so, show the same courtesy and understanding to others as you afford yourself. Don't separate yourself so much that you appear so much different as everyone else, I'm pretty sure your not. Even the Lord our God didn't. It's not the state that we are in that matters, but the end of the matter.

[CUDA]

You ever said the word '****' just once Cuda?

More than I care to admit

If so, show the same courtesy and understanding to others as you afford yourself. Don't separate yourself so much that you appear so much different as everyone else, I'm pretty sure your not. Even the Lord our God didn't. It's not the state that we are in that matters, but the end of the matter.

your misinterpreting my stance. this is not about my personal beliefs or even wants. this is about the stance that you can say what you want and it matters not how it offends someone. this is about a personal responsibility to each and every member of this board. your freedoms end where they start imposing on another. people are ragging on members to Be an adult and stop complaining about the use of offensive language. I say all fine and dandy stop complaining about offensive language. and conversely be an adult and stop trying to offend others with your offensive language.

and to you because of your faith,

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble, upset, or weak.

[flip]

I agree completely and it's the same thing I'm hearing, but I'm not so much different from the unbeliever. That' the point I think even. Restraint but not ever for a minute to think we are that so much different.

[CUDA]

Words of Wisdom.

3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal.
4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go.
5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind,
8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

[CDN_Merlin]

I believe this all boils down to showing others respect. Profanity will always be part of our society. But if we all take a bit of time to respect others and not go outside the boundries, we should be ok.

As someone said, this is a privately owned forum and if they want to impose rules for no profanity, then obey it. If you don't want to, then go to the .com as there rules are more laxed.(Reason I am not a member there).

[flip]

I can agree with those words Cuda, but I also think that to everything there is a season, and some things need to be poisoned these days.

[null0010]

Being polite and not directly insulting users is one thing, but I think that self-censoring my language for the benefit of users who have consented to read vulgarities by de-activating their profanity filter is a step too far. It seems analogous to butting into a conversation and demanding a change of topic, or something. It just seems rude and self-important to expect or demand that. I would go so far as to say that demanding that others censor themselves is ruder than using "foul language" to begin with.

[flip]

True enough I think. What's worse, saying a four letter word, or judging someone and condemning them for the use of it? What fire grows bigger and burns hotter than judgement itself? We are all unworthy, saved by grace and this newness we have wasn't there until we were baptized in the Spirit. Share it don't spread it.

[CUDA]

The issue is not about what your "rights are" or what you are "allowed" to do. the issue is how do you choose to interact with other people. do you fly in their face with your middle finger up, or you do salute and differ out or respect. this is about your choices, your Character

“Good character is more to be praised than outstanding talent. Most talents are to some extent a gift. Good character, by contrast, is not given to us. We have to build it piece by piece by thought, choice, courage and determination.” - John Luther

[null0010]

I don't need quotes or verses to know that it's uncool to insult someone to their face, I agree that it is uncool. But I also think it is uncool to restrict the ability to insult someone to their face.

[flip]

No, it's about convincing others of the truth, even if you have to act like a Roman. Curse words are temporary and you have the ability to repent of it. Death is final. If I have to act like a heathen to get through, I will. I'm not that far off from one actually.

[CUDA]

I don't need quotes or verses to know that it's uncool to insult someone to their face, I agree that it is uncool. But I also think it is uncool to restrict the ability to insult someone to their face.

where did I say it wasn't?, there are times when it's necessary to call a spade a spade.

This is about intentionally using language that someone might find offensive when there is no need for it. OR intentionally taking offense to such language when there is no need. why is it that some people want to say FU it's my right to use that language and you can go F yourself if you don't like it. and conversely it's about people needing to grow a thick skin and not getting all upset when such language is used.

[CUDA]

It wasn't you TC, such is life on the web

HTH did I sneak in before you when I posted after you

[Tunnelcat]

People, what I'd like to know is how did my initial post about a foreclosed house full of snakes degrade into a nasty swearing match? I didn't intend for people to get mad at each other.

[Tunnelcat]

HTH did I sneak in before you when I posted after you

Yeah, my post showed up before yours at first, but later on, I'm after yours. What's going on?

[Avder]

People, what I'd like to know is how did my initial post about a foreclosed house full of snakes degrade into a nasty swearing match? I didn't intend for people to get mad at each other.

Guess I'll make an exception to my self imposed restriction and chime in on this. I was kind of anticipating the original thread getting split and half of it getting moved here, but oh well.

I swore in my post when I said how much I hated snakes, Bee took exception, I tried to be cute, she didn't think it was cute, and debate about profanity ensued. I apologized for unintentionally derailing the thread near the bottom of page one. I had no idea that me revealing myself as such a vehement snake hater would result in such a spirited debate.

[Lothar]

This board has always tried to cater to a wide audience, including some of the kids who play Descent. That's the primary motivation for most of our content-related policy.

For a long time the rule was "no politics or religion" because those were classic flamewar topics; eventually they were allowed in E&C as most board members matured enough to handle those discussions without flaming people. The rule now is "if you don't like those topics, skip them or stay out of E&C entirely."

For a long time the rule was "no flamewars". Then we set up the NHB forum specifically so that people who wanted to flame could do so. The rule now is "if you don't like flamewars, stay out of NHB."

For a long time the rule was "no bypassing the swear filter". This allowed us to keep those who didn't want to see swear words from seeing them. Now we have an individually-controlled swear filter that defaults to "on". The rule is still "no bypassing the swear filter", and to go with it, "if you don't like swearing, turn on your filter." That way, those who want to avoid swearing can do so, and those who think it's OK can do so.

That's also why we had the whole flare-up over the "intimacy" comments just prior to the formation of .com -- because we've got some kids on this board who don't want to hear about your sexual exploits. If you want to talk about sex, do it in an appropriate thread for it (either in E&C or NHB), and if you don't want to hear about it, don't read those threads.

As far back as I can remember, the DBB has never taken a "morality" approach to any of these topics. It was always a practical approach geared toward keeping the DBB friendly to a wide variety of Descent players.

[Foil]

HTH did I sneak in before you when I posted after you

Yeah, my post showed up before yours at first, but later on, I'm after yours. What's going on?

This is a known issue, due to a small time discrepancy between webservers.

[TigerRaptor]

I completely forgot about the mobi prank. One example that not everything should be taken seriously.

Mobi.jpg (90.83 KiB) Viewed 1935 times

http://web.archive.org/web/200310030900 ... timate.cgi

[Top Gun]

Oh man, good times.