Christians Muslims Atheists. Who really is growing faster?

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:41 am

Yes. The next logical progression is to start talking about Nuclear Reactions and Particle Accelerators, but that needed to soak in first.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:27 pm

particle accelerators fire atoms at each other, like shooting a rocket into a pile of explosives.

the synonym for particle accelerator is "atom smasher".

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:50 pm

I know the definition

What it do?

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:00 pm

linky

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:05 pm

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:12 pm

no no flip. you see a particle accelerator works by harnessing the dark energies of a dying star and combining two antiparticles together to test new theories of the universe.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:46 pm

This thread just gets better and better…soon it will be the bestist thread evar.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:59 am

What does it matter to ya, when you've got a job to do, you gotta do it well
You gotta give the other fellow Hell

That's true. This is what I think. Just as the same way the increase of Carbon14 was absorbed other isotopes from transuranium elements were also. On an atomic-level.

Quote:
So far, essentially all the transuranium elements have been produced at three laboratories

Quote:
Those that can be found on Earth now are artificially generated synthetic elements, via nuclear reactors or particle accelerators.

Now I base this on the fact that these transuranium elements were all produced in a lab. Up to that point, Scientists had already identified the basic elements up to the point of uranium, but nothing further until manipulated in a lab. Then after creating or at least re-producing neptunium and plutonium, Scientists start finding them in nature. These things were only produced in 3 labs, I'm sure they were not carried back and forth to work in backpacks, yet then they start appearing in nature. It's that mechanism I'm after. Because that means that somehow on a sub-atomic level, these elements some how found there way out of the lab and into surrounding matter just as C14 does.

What I'm looking for is a reason why and how neptunium and plutonium started making deposits in the earth while being artificially created in a lab. There has to be a way to get from Point A to Point B. One topic at a time Ferno.

This question remains, side-stepped, ignored, and pushed to the side. All I'm going to do is continue to requote this question until it's considered. Or Live an Let Die.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:13 am

Black Holes could be described as being "formless and void" or a "bottomless pit" that refuses to "let there be light"

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Tebo · Post by **Tebo** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:16 am

Tebo wrote:
So far, essentially all the transuranium elements have been produced at three laboratories
That sentence may be a bit missleading, it's in the section "Discovery and naming of transuranium elements" of the "Transuranium element" article in wikipedia and likely only refers to where the elements were first discovered or applies just to the heavier elements (hence the essentially).

The lighter transuranic elements are produced in any operating nuclear reactor as well as in nuclear explosions.

Neptunium and plutonium were spread by nuclear explosions. A part probably can also be attributed to soviet reprocessing and of course there was chernobyl.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:39 am

flip wrote:Black Holes could be described as being "formless and void" or a "bottomless pit" that refuses to "let there be light"

Chuck Testa

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:54 am

Chinese researchers have successfully built an electromagnetic absorbing device for microwave frequencies. The device, made of a thin cylinder comprising 60 concentric rings of metamaterials, is capable of absorbing microwave radiation, and has been compared to an astrophysical black hole (which, in space, soaks up matter and light)

Two Chinese scientists have successfully made an artificial black hole. Since you’re still reading this, it’s safe to say that Earth hasn’t been sucked into its vortex.

That’s because a black hole doesn’t technically require a massive, highly concentrated gravitational field that prevents light from escaping, as postulated by Albert Einstein. It just needs to capture light — or, to be more precise, electromagnetic radiation, of which visually perceived light is one form.

Heh, since we NOW know that somehow "Trace amounts of neptunium are found as decay products from transmutation reactions in uranium ores. " These accelerator/collidors are entirely capable of creating an element that could start attracting like materials. Now if they did, where would these like materials come from?

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:21 am

flip wrote: These accelerator/collidors are entirely capable of creating an element that could start attracting like materials.Now if they did, where would these like materials come from?

The depths of your imagination. Ponder Technetium.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:22 am

The Chinese creating a device that absorbs microwave radiation? Wow, that sounds really impressive! Hey, by the way I can teach you a super complicated scientific method on how to make your house absorb visible light just like a black hole: Paint it black. AMAZING ISN'T IT? IT IS THE DISCOVERY OF THE CENTURY! WE'LL WIN THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR SURE!

Why would a new element attract anything beyond its simple gravity or magnetic forces? That is like saying that since you built a shelf/chair/desk/etc that other shelves/chairs/desks/etc are magically attracted to it. There are four shelves in my room made out of "like materials" and I've never seen them suddenly pull each other across the room till they all clump up somewhere in the middle... So what are you talking about?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:31 am

How are crystals made?

Crystals can form in a few minutes or take thousands of years to grow. But all crystals that you can see with your eyes are made of many trillions of extremely small building blocks called atoms. A grain of salt is a simple crystal which is made of two types of atoms: sodium and chlorine. If you look at a salt crystal carefully (or under a microscope), you can see that it looks like a little cube. In fact, we now know that there are trillions of tiny cubes (called unit cells) that make up this bigger cube. Each tiny cube is made of four sodium atoms and four chlorine atoms and is exactly like the cube next to it.
Larger salt crystals can be prepared in different ways. For example, if you take some salt crystals and dissolve them in water, the unit cells come apart and the individual sodium atoms and chlorine atoms are separated and surrounded by water molecules. If you wait a day or so, the water will slowly evaporate, and the atoms will get closer and closer together and eventually form the first small group of unit cells. Then more atoms attach themselves and the cube begins to grow in size. Eventually, there are enough unit cells attached together in a regular pattern so that you can see the crystal with your eyes.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:33 pm

from an abundance of atoms.

atom smashers don't deal with abundances of atoms - but you knew that already.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:49 pm

The same way neptunium and plutonium collected on uranium. Not close enough to be absorbed, but close enough to collect there, as atoms, just like crystals form.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:59 pm

flip wrote:The same way neptunium and plutonium collected on uranium. Not close enough to be absorbed, but close enough to collect there, as atoms, just like crystals form.

no, neptunium is found near uranium ores due to radioactive decay.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:09 pm

Exactly what point of mine are you arguing against?

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:22 pm

the point quoted.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:45 pm

...Reading through this post again...

Flip, let me see if I get your argument straight:

A. Transuranic elements were not observed in nature until after they were seen as a product of artificial reactions from particle accelerator/colliders.

=>

B. Transuranic elements in nature must be coming from those particle accelerators.

=>

C. There must be a mechanism (i.e. elements attracting similar/like elements) for those elements to get out of the labs.

=>

D. That mechanim is the same as, or analogous to, the mechanism by which the C-14 isotope is propagated.

=>

E. Artificial nuclear reactions affect the mechanism by which C-14 is propagated.

=>

F. Measurements based on C-14 isotope ratios are questionable, due to large nuclear events.

...Did I get that roughly right?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:58 pm

Yes. Except E. It is that mechanism we see in nature over and over that I am talking about. The unseen. In 1789 Uranium was discovered. The next element was not discovered, it was created in a lab. After this creation of neptunium within contained reactions, they somehow on a sub-atomic level became attracted to and deposited near Uranium. Their nearest existing counterpart. Now they extra C-14 was absorbed as it had a naturally existing element to bind with. Not so with anything after uranium. Neptunium and plutonium would gather close to it, as they are closely derived from it, But I doubt that would happen with any elements beyond plutonium and neptunium as they would have no other particles existing naturally to bind with. On Earth that is. Who knows what's floating around in the universe.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:14 pm

The periodic table is not a historical listing of the order the elements where discovered in.

Have you read anything on the radioactive decay of elements? Your continued insistence that trans-uranium elements are attracted to uranium deposits after they were created in labs indicates otherwise.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:25 pm

The periodic table is based upon atomic weight.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:36 pm

So, you are saying that elements only come into existence when they are discovered?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:39 pm

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:42 pm

So its conceivable that neptunium and plutonium existed in nature before their discovery.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:14 pm

Well, not likely and here's why. From 1789 until 1940, the heaviest element found was Uranium. Neptunium is only one proton heavier than Uranium and is actually produced from the bombardment of neutrons against Uranium. Is it conceivable that all that time they never found it in nature until they were actually able to produce it?

EDIT: IT is very likely these elements occur somewhere in the universe, probably in great quantities. But not under our atmosphere.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:19 pm

flip wrote:Well, not likely and here's why. From 1789 until 1940, the heaviest element found was Uranium. Neptunium is only one proton heavier that Uranium and is actually produced from the bombardment of neutrons against Uranium. Is it conceivable that all that time they never found it in nature until they were actually able to produce it?

Its more conceivable that it wasn't found in nature beforehand because no one knew it existed. More importantly, they didn't have the tools to look for it.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:28 pm

They didn't find it for 150 years until they were able to produce it. Gimme a break dude, if you can make the ★■◆● surely you have the ability before hand to detect it.

Quote:
So far, essentially all the transuranium elements have been produced at three laboratories

Quote:
Those that can be found on Earth now are artificially generated synthetic elements, via nuclear reactors or particle accelerators.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:33 pm

flip wrote:They didn't find it for 150 years until they were able to produce it. Gimme a break dude, if you can make the ★■◆● surely you have the ability before hand to detect it.

So you are saying we had fore-knowledge of neptunium?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:36 pm

Quote:
So far, essentially all the transuranium elements have been produced at three laboratories

Quote:
Those that can be found on Earth now are artificially generated synthetic elements, via nuclear reactors or particle accelerators.

No I'm saying that those that can be found on earth now are artificially generated.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:38 pm

But it can be found in nature, very rarely in uranium ore, created by the process of radioactive decay - a concept you seem to be willingly ignoring.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:42 pm

What you seem to be willingly ignoring is that they had the ability to identify Uranium in 1789.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:50 pm

flip wrote:What you seem to be willingly ignoring is that they had the ability to identify Uranium in 1789.

Uranium was easy to find - there is lots of it.Pitchblende and nitric acid. Neptunium was identified by radioactive decay of uranium after uranium was bombarded by neutrons. Neutrons weren't discovered until 1920.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:52 pm

This is getting boring.

It was the first transuranium element produced synthetically and the first actinide series transuranium element discovered.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:57 pm

The only known way to manufacture neptunium is the particle bombardment of Uranium.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:59 pm

flip wrote:This is getting boring.

It was the first transuranium element produced synthetically and the first actinide series transuranium element discovered.

You are reading too much into that sentence. Producing something synthetically doesn't exclude natural occurrence.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:00 pm

You think that neutron bombardment of Uranium doesn't happen in nature?

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:03 pm

Not without a nuclear reaction or particle accelerator.