Calling a duck...

[Nightshade]

...a duck.



- even if Obama prefers to call it a hamster.

[Spidey]

Hey look it’s the NuttyYahoo…I mean um er Netanyahu.

[flip]

Damn, there is gonna be war. If I read between the lines correctly, Netanyahu just asked for a pre-emptive strike on Iran and declared the only reason the state of Israel exists is to ensure the survival of Jewish blood. Not the kind of words from someone trying to achieve peace.

EDIT:It's clear to me now that the only way Israel feels it can "ensure" it's survival, is to rule the rest of the world. "where truth and justice and the rule of law exists."

[woodchip]

Damn, there is gonna be war. If I read between the lines correctly, Netanyahu just asked for a pre-emptive strike on Iran and declared the only reason the state of Israel exists is to ensure the survival of Jewish blood. Not the kind of words from someone trying to achieve peace.

Not quite. Netanyahu just informed the US and the world that they don't need permission from anyone to protect their country. Too bad Obama had him leave by the back door early on or maybe there'd be better dialog between them.

[flip]

LOL,that too. I always wondered why the Bible says that 'every' nation turns against Israel. It's gonna be because their the architects. Everyone looks at them as if they are a young nation. They are the oldest, longest and most recorded bloodline in history. The second oldest institution in the world, The Holy See of Rome, directly descended from their history. They held it together throughout history. They kept their religious dogma's and their sense of individuality. They are the architects because they have been rejected in turn. For a time.

[flip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDQnTjF ... re=related

[Zuruck]

Good, if Israel starts it, let them fight all of it.

[Tunnelcat]

Damn, there is gonna be war. If I read between the lines correctly, Netanyahu just asked for a pre-emptive strike on Iran and declared the only reason the state of Israel exists is to ensure the survival of Jewish blood. Not the kind of words from someone trying to achieve peace.

Not quite. Netanyahu just informed the US and the world that they don't need permission from anyone to protect their country. Too bad Obama had him leave by the back door early on or maybe there'd be better dialog between them.

That's the impression I got. But I think there is more going on behind the scenes than what the players are alluding to before the public cameras.

And McCain wants to bomb Syria too. Just what we need, to get involved in 2 Middle East wars, AGAIN. Are people nuts?

[Top Gun]

When the phrase "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it," is tossed around, I never thought it referred to history occurring all of a decade ago.

[flip]

Sounds about right

[callmeslick]

Good, if Israel starts it, let them fight all of it.

yup, and fecking pay for it, too. All of it.

[flip]

Uhm,no. I don't hear Israel calling for anyone's destruction. They are the under-dog here and their whole way of life is threatened. There's at least 2 opposing factors here in Israels case. They believe they are the descendants of Abraham and God's chosen, so it makes them obstinate and stubborn and arrogant, and, everyone in that whole region does hate them and would have the Jews gone so there won't be a problem anymore, so they are somewhat out-numbered. History speaks for itself though. Almost all the Native Americans in this country have been bred out in roughly 200 years. The Israelites though, unlike ANY other race or group of people, has remained since ancient times.

[callmeslick]

Uhm,no. I don't hear Israel calling for anyone's destruction. They are the under-dog here and their whole way of life is threatened.

which part? The one where you steal other peoples farmland and claim the water supply as your own? Or, maybe the part where you build apartment complexes on other people's property because it's God's will? Underdog my ass, they are a nuclear power, and have been supplied top-end US armaments for decades.

There's at least 2 opposing factors here in Israels case. They believe they are the descendants of Abraham and God's chosen, so it makes them obstinate and stubborn and arrogant,

so, if a group's religion dictates a position is must be accepted, or acceptable? Explain that one in terms of, say, certain extreme Muslim subgroups and tell me that it should be acceptable.......

and, everyone in that whole region does hate them and would have the Jews gone so there won't be a problem anymore, so they are somewhat out-numbered.

yet, Jews coexisted alongside Arabs, Africans, Persians, Turks at all with little other that the same levels of ethnic strife that one sees in any settled region. Only since the nation of Israel was stolen, er, formed, did this stuff get bad., and continue to get worse.

History speaks for itself though. Almost all the Native Americans in this country have been bred out in roughly 200 years. The Israelites though, unlike ANY other race or group of people, has remained since ancient times.

you're kidding here, right?

[flip]

Bah, all bull★■◆● Slick, according to your own way of looking at things, The Jews have original documented claim and current possession. I call that success and the regaining of their right to exist autonomously. Funny how you try and make americans eat the ★■◆● yall are trying to pour down our throats, yet don't apply the same standards to others. All I can say is, I'm siding with the jews, they have a track record to out-do all others .

[callmeslick]

Bah, all **** Slick, according to your own way of looking at things, The Jews have original documented claim and current possession. I call that success and the regaining of their right to exist autonomously. Funny how you try and make americans eat the **** yall our trying to pour down our throats, yet don't apply the same standards to others. All I can say is, I'm siding with the jews, they have a track record to out-do all others .

this whole garbled mess makes no sense whatsoever. Feel free to back the first group of modern Terrorists is their ongoing efforts to oppress their neighbors. In time, you will realize what a disaster that tack has been for the interests of the US. Taking sides, any sides, in a region which we don't understand at all is the mistake the US has repeated since WW II, but this is the prime example. A nation addicted to oil, blindly supports a regime that has raped it's neighbors, who have the oil we will need for the next half-century. Not a recipe for something that ends well.......

[CUDA]

yet, Jews coexisted alongside Arabs, Africans, Persians, Turks at all with little other that the same levels of ethnic strife that one sees in any settled region. Only since the nation of Israel was stolen, er, formed, did this stuff get bad., and continue to get worse.

I think you might wish to take a more advanced history class on the region

[flip]

I understand the problem over there perfectly. You would too if it wasn't in direct conflict with your interests.

[Spidey]

I seem to recall that somebody’s ancestors gave Sacagawea fire water, pulled down her panties…raped her, then stole all of her land, to plant tobacco and cotton.

Just Sayin…

[Top Gun]

Netanyahu really is a massive ★■◆● for continuing the "settlement" process. There is absolutely no reason for Israelis to be building housing in those regions...hell, it's pretty much the most sure-fire way to stir up ★■◆● there is. And yet the doucherag keeps going.

[woodchip]

Netanyahu really is a massive ★■◆● for continuing the "settlement" process. There is absolutely no reason for Israelis to be building housing in those regions...hell, it's pretty much the most sure-fire way to stir up ★■◆● there is. And yet the doucherag keeps going.

I would like to remind you TG that when Israel ceased building housing in "those regions" they were still being rocket attacked by Hamas and Hezbollah. So Israel said screw it and started building again.

[Top Gun]

Well of course they were, because Hamas and Hezbollah are massive assholes themselves. But that doesn't make the settlement process any less ridiculous.

[callmeslick]

Well of course they were, because Hamas and Hezbollah are massive assholes themselves. But that doesn't make the settlement process any less ridiculous.

precisely why I said we have no national interest in taking sides. One of the best lines I hear regularly is that Israel is our best friend in the region(or sometimes in the world). Hmmmmm, howcome we always seem to catch them spying and/or stealing classified documents?

[flip]

Well, you got to put yourself in their shoes. They have demonstrably shown their character as a nation. They are the epitomy of democracy in the region, one good reason we should continue to support them. Considering.......... If you desire peace, but your adversary desires your destruction, you must meet the threat on your opponents terms.

[callmeslick]

Well, you got to put yourself in their shoes. They have demonstrably shown their character as a nation.

that they have, and to those of us not blinded by silly religious notions, what we've seen isn't pretty.

[flip]

Man, your leftist type attacks are weak and boresome. This is the only board I post on, ok? Nothing religious at all was mentioned but again your mind has been filled with campaign slogans and snappy bumper sticker quotes. Israel provides a way of life that closely mirrors ours and brightly contrasts against those in their own region.

[Nightshade]

that they have, and to those of us not blinded by silly religious notions, what we've seen isn't pretty.

I gather that you 'religion' dictates that Israel is evil and is out to murder innocent arabs that are only reacting to an imperialist power imposed upon them.

You will defend this religious precept of yours regardless of the evidence presented.

[woodchip]

Well of course they were, because Hamas and Hezbollah are massive assholes themselves. But that doesn't make the settlement process any less ridiculous.

precisely why I said we have no national interest in taking sides. One of the best lines I hear regularly is that Israel is our best friend in the region(or sometimes in the world). Hmmmmm, howcome we always seem to catch them spying and/or stealing classified documents?

Right. We have no stake when a mad man, religious controlled state wants to eliminate a couple of million jews and you have no problem with this? I bet you and Adolf Eichmann would have been great pals.

[flip]

On top of that, how could you support going to war against 2 nations under the mantra of spreading democracy, and then not do everything in your power to support and stablize the one that is already well-established. Smells like duck to me.

I laughed

[Krom]

One interesting thing to note is that the Arabs who were displaced from Israel roughly balance out the similar number of Jews who were displaced from the nearby Arab states. The big difference between the two groups is Israel nationalized the Jewish refugees giving them land and citizenship, while the Arabs continue to force their "Arab Brothers" to remain in refugee camps.

Perhaps you could call it a misstep by Israel, if they had kept all the displaced Jews as refugees then they too could claim to be the victims the whole time while cultivating hearty crops of terrorists and extremists.

[callmeslick]

Man, your leftist type attacks are weak and boresome. This is the only board I post on, ok? Nothing religious at all was mentioned but again your mind has been filled with campaign slogans and snappy bumper sticker quotes. Israel provides a way of life that closely mirrors ours and brightly contrasts against those in their own region.

If you simmer down, I wasn't citing you, per se. It is just that the settlement process is aided substantially by US Evangelicals, and much of the demand for support in this nation comes from both that group and American Jews. Those are the 'religious' colorations I referred to. My point is this: the ONLY realpolitik reason we have for interest in that region of the world is, or ought to be, oil supply. There is one point I agree with Ron Paul on.....we have to let go of this crap about propping up folks because we have some notion that their system is akin to ours. I could go and quibble about the details some of the rest of these folks cited about how damned good the Israeli Arabs have things, but that would be off my point. If protection of the oil supply ought to be our focus, and given that they have 35% of the world oil reserves and we have 2% it should, then we should focus on maintaining and protecting the flow of petroleum. So, no, that doesn't entail coddling Iran in it's aggression, nor Hezbollah or Hamas in their instigation. But it also shouldn't entail us providing 30 years worth of covering the Israeli Military budget. If they wish to arm themselves and not be more flexible, let them pay for it. We have, at this point, allowed Israel to become far too inflexible, and served as a lightning rod for their opposition to organize and recruit for an ongoing campaign against Israel due to its own intransigence. In short, the US is an enabler for a situation that will perpetually keep the oil production unstable. And THAT, nothing more, is my beef with US policy in the region. It has not put OUR interests before those of a nation more than willing to spy on us and thumb their noses at us when it serves their interests.

[flip]

I see it as a preventative measure against a numerous amount of future police actions, and therein lies my whole point in your response. We don't live there. It's not our oil. I also disagree with Ron Paul on the point of Israel. It serves our interest to strengthen an already nuclear and friendly nation to us in that region, because, considering your other point, we need to have friendly business relations with those that occupy the land the oil is under. I agree with Obama on that point, although I don't think he really means it, but I'm just optimistic enough to think that diplomacy could work, but not until their threat level goes down. The fact remains, it's their oil.

[callmeslick]

and, I'll end the night by agreeing with Flip's final point. It is their oil.

[Top Gun]

The disturbing thing to me is that a lot of this fervent evangelical support of Israel in the US is tied to a kooky literalist interpretation of Revelation, and the need for the Temple in Jerusalem to be rebuilt as a precursor to the Apocalypse. Talk about some twisted reasoning.

[Tunnelcat]

Some back room negotiating going on, and no one's talking. Duck and dodge?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/whit ... 15454.html

[flip]

The way things are going, there's gonna be a apocalypse regardless. Barney Frank had to do a timeout today and sit in the corner =/. I think what happens is the world grows to large for one group to manage. All the in-fighting will eventually do so much destruction to the world system that they will have to give power over to just one person. I've always wondered how dictatorships come about at the very start. Maybe that's why. Too much in-fighting.

[flip]

In total, over 200 rockets were been fired into Israel since hostilities began on Friday, including 50 with ranges of over 20 kilometers. Some of the rockets were manufactured domestically in the Gaza Strip.

This is not gonna stop. Hmm, who here agrees with assassinations?