Why are all hubcaps terrible?

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:43 pm

Hubcaps are the worst form of art ever created. Fact: there has never been a good looking hubcap.

Rims are just as bad, except for utility vehicles. Utility trucks look fine. That should be the standard. A lot of 60's rims look good.

All regular snap-on hubcaps should be this:

Smooth curved disks painted to match the body.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:55 pm

But that looks very strange

sdfgeoff · Post by **sdfgeoff** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:04 pm

I agree with Isaac. It only looks strange because barely any cars have it. If all cars had solid hubcaps the idea of putting holes in them would be strange.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:04 am

So now that your rims are "pretty" according to you... how are you going to cool your brakes? That is what the holes are for, to allow airflow to the rotors and pads.

sdfgeoff · Post by **sdfgeoff** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:06 am

Do the brakes of civilian, non racing vehicles need it though? I think not.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:15 am

sdfgeoff wrote:Do the brakes of civilian, non racing vehicles need it though? I think not.

So you're the type that rides the brake all the way down the mountain?

sdfgeoff · Post by **sdfgeoff** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Urrgh, hadn't thought about hills....

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:50 pm

So the air that comes from under the vehicle, which hit the inside of the wheel, is not enough to cool the breaks? If not, air get sucked in or out through the tire's rim like a fan? Hmm... That means when you stop the breaks a extra hot because you're no longer moving, assuming you don't ride the break.

Code: Select all

1: Car stopped = Breaks@ 100%
2: Car moving = Breaks @ 0 to .11111% # light tapping or no breaks
3: Car stops = Breaks@ 50% to 100%
4: Go back to 1

Air flow at 1 is 0%. Air at 2 is 100%. Air flow at 3 declines as pressure increases, making heat inicrease. When the process returns to 1, from 3, then the breaks are at their highest tempreature.

It's like a CPU fan that turns off when you need it most.

So I'll need to look this up to see how neccessary it really is to have an "air hole"...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Brake systems in electric cars create substancial less heat at the wheels...

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:46 pm

I'm sure everyone here already knows this but to properly ventilate and diffuse heat you need two openings -- one where the cold air comes in and absorbs the heat from the wheel and one to let the now-hot air out.

Now I've totally aroused my curiosity.

Do you think it works better in a really cold climate (like ya know here?). I'd imagine that the wheels get so much hotter than the regular air that the ambient air temperature doesn't really matter but would it make a difference if you were in Mexico City in summer opposed to, say, Winnipeg in winter (with the normal -50 Celsius windchill, not like this winter

)?
For that matter, does humidity make a difference?

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:07 pm

sdfgeoff wrote:Do the brakes of civilian, non racing vehicles need it though? I think not.

Umm yes they do... unless you want to replace your warped rotors and cooked pads every two months.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:11 pm

Grendel wrote:Brake systems in electric cars create substancial less heat at the wheels...

As does down shifting.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:57 pm

You know what hubcaps are called in a Japanese car, at least Toyota's, owner's manual?

Wheel ornaments!

Kind of sounds more apropos somehow. They cover the whole wheel, not just the bearing hubs.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Spidey wrote:
Grendel wrote:Brake systems in electric cars create substancial less heat at the wheels...
As does down shifting.

I hope you don't break with the clutch...

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:55 pm

No, the clutch is only used to shift gears…the engine provides the braking.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:49 pm

Spidey wrote:the engine provides the braking.

So you're going 60 and you need to go 30. If you let "the engine provide the breaking", you put it 4th and let the engine slow your speed. Dude, that's breaking with the clutch. You don't know how to drive a stick.

People do that when I let them drive my car, they get corrected. They don't do it twice.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:56 pm

sdfgeoff wrote:Do the brakes of civilian, non racing vehicles need it though? I think not.

um er um er ummm

Brakes on civilian vehicles (your beater, commuter, whatever you call it) need the cooling MORE because most discs are solid, and the larger ones are vented. The air gets taken inside through the vents on the wheels and is used to cool them off. Some of the brakes can get up to about 500 to 700 C. any more and they will be too hot to provide any decent braking and that's when you get fade. So blocking off any vents will let those suckers get to about 1000C and that's when they die.

oh and issac.. you're wrong. and here's why.

braking with the engine doesn't involve the clutch at all. You're going sixty and you want to slow down to fourty. you de clutch, bring up the RPM to match the new speed, shift into gear and let the clutch out. Done right with the revs matched the clutch sees no friction whatsoever.

source: i do friggin autocross and i wrench on my own vehicle.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:44 pm

Isaac wrote:
Spidey wrote:the engine provides the braking.
So you're going 60 and you need to go 30. If you let "the engine provide the breaking", you put it 4th and let the engine slow your speed. Dude, that's breaking with the clutch. You don't know how to drive a stick.
People do that when I let them drive my car, they get corrected. They don't do it twice.

No that's braking with the engine.
The clutch is only disengaged (slipping) during the SHIFT. Once you release the clutch pedal to begin the engine braking the clutch pads are totally clamped on the clutch disc's. No slipping or "clutching" happening.
Its the compression of the engine slowing the car.
So the clutch is not accruing any wear during engine braking.

The clutch pads see the most wear during the initial launch from a complete stop when you have to let the clutch out slowly, slipping it.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:37 pm

It gets even more involved when you factor in CVT transmissions. Not only is engine compression at work but on the fly gear changes too.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:09 am

These guys are correct, Isaac. Using the engine to decelerate by shifting to a lower gear doesn't wear the clutch, and it's fine on the engine.

Those of us who drive around the mountains know how crucial it is to be able to do so. (I still chuckle at all the tourists riding their brakes down Pike's Peak who get stopped at the checkpoint to wait 'til their red-hot brakes cool off.)

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:33 am

oh god, i can imagine how much their interior just REEKS of brake smell after that, foil.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:08 am

All of this makes me glad I drive a dinky little automatic.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:36 am

All of this makes me glad I take the bus.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:18 am

Sorry dudes. Engine breaking / clutch breaking is not normal use AT ALL. You should avoid engine breaking when possible. The only reason you do it is in specific cases when you A) have no other choice B) because you're worried about loosing your breaks. Every other case is wrong.

For starters, I have driven the same car for over 19 years and nothing on the transition, including the clutch, has ever needed to be replaced. If you had to replace a clutch or a transition it's your fault.

FINE!! Don't listen to me, because I'm crazy Isaac, so listen to the experts:

ray wrote:Let's take "normal driving" first. It's not the engine that gets takes the brunt of downshifting. It's the clutch that takes the punishment. Think about it. If you shifted up from first gear to fifth and then downshifted all the way back down again, you'd be using your clutch twice as often, and therefore wearing it out twice as fast, right? And a clutch can cost many hundreds of dollars.

http://cars.cartalk.com/content/columns ... er/07.html

Maybe you live in a place with 10 billion hills? I guess it can depend on where you live. In Texas, especially south Texas, it's rare.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:01 am

Isaac, that column you posted said exactly what the folks here said:
- For driving on relatively flat roads, use normal brakes.
- For driving on inclines, use engine braking (downshifting).

No one here is suggesting using engine braking on flat roads.

P.S. Driving in mountainous/inclined roads *is* "normal driving" in many many places.
P.S.S. Just because this is bugging me: It's "brakes"/"braking", not "breaks"/"breaking".

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:37 am

Or use an electric car to be able to have closed wheels

Click.

Man, I wish they had done something w/ the EV-1 besides canning it

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:54 pm

Electric vehicles still need traditional friction brakes because the amount of braking torque at the motors is limited by the maximum electrical resistance of the battery which varies by charge level (unless your car uses super capacitors as a buffer).

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:09 pm

Gee, noone here has some imagination what the future looks like ? I said "able to". E-car development focusses on trying to minimize energy waste (which a conventional braking system does very well, wasting energy.) I'm pretty confident that there's major research going on trying to minimize energy loss by heat, thus making closed-rim wheel very possible in the near future (and likely since there's reduced air resistance in this too.)

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:24 pm

I even downshift and use the engine for braking on flat roads. It works and what I have to show for it are pads that are three years old that STILL look brand new. Even the rotors have almost zero wear on them.

How do I know this? well, I changed out my CV joints last night and had a good look at em.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:15 pm

I think Isaac is thinking in terms of stop and go city driving, where for the most part you would use your brake to come to a stop at all of the red lights, using the clutch only to shift up thru the gears.

Not all driving is done in stop and go traffic…on highways and rural roads you up and down shift accordingly…

Example:

You are moving at 60mph, and you approach a turn you must take at 35, you then downshift before the turn, then accelerate out of the turn, and return to the higher gear, after you gain the speed back.

If you apply stop and go thinking to that scenario, you would brake before the turn, slow down to 35, then have to downshift after the turn anyway. (or face the bog)

You and me on a race track Isaac, I would eat you alive.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:34 pm

Spidey wrote:You and me on a race track Isaac, I would eat you alive.

My crappy Ford Escort vs your?

...eat you ALIVE, MAN!

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:52 pm

Heh, I just bought a 2007 Altima 3.5 SL. Rides low and like it on rails . Lol, I'll race you for pinks

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:59 pm

Oh no…a Ferd Escort…I give up.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:26 pm

Me, flip, and spidey, racing at 60, until we have to drop to 35 on a turn.
Spidey, stripping gears, breaks with his engine.
Me, taps my breaks and glides around the corner, until the breaks go out. Dies.
Flip, flips his car. Buys a new Altima.

edit:
Foil, in a hot air balloon, shouts from above, "B. R. A. K. E. S.! BRAKES, mother fucker!"

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:43 pm

and then i blow past you all going at a suicidal rate and overtake you issac on that last corner.

lewwwwwsers!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:18 pm

And I'll be munching on popcorn while observing the whole train wreck from a helicopter at a safe altitude overhead.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:24 pm

This thread is screwed, amusing tho lol

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:56 pm

No, Flip approaches corner at 85, let's go off gas a touch, downshifts 2 gears, plants the suspension in the curve and throttles out at about 105.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:31 pm

Page 2 of this thread = win.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm

Krom, eating popcorn while on duty, sees Flip fly past him. Pulls him over.

Muahaha no one won!