Sham Leader

[Tunnelcat]

Will this be his leadership in a time of disaster? A staged relief effort to make the man look like he's doing something to help with the storm relief? All that cheap Wal-mart food that probably didn't even go to anybody on the East Coast and who most likely would've rather had help with shelter and rebuilding efforts. Romney's got the cash, so why didn't he make a big heroic effort and give a BIG donation to the Red Cross? This from the guy who want's to get rid of FEMA.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... nned-food/

http://www.politicolnews.com/romney-fak ... dy-relief/

[CUDA]

I'm sure Romney's leadership will rate right up there with the Presidents

Partisan MSNBC bull★■◆● TC

[CobGobbler]

I don't understand that picture Cuda.

This is kind of funny, when Paul Bremer announced that Saddam had been captured he said "we got him". No one complained that Bremer didn't say "A task force from the Fourth Infantry Division got him." In fact, I doubt many people here even knew which unit was responsible for his capture.

I just don't get how dense some of you people are. Even Chris Christie, who is no friend of the President, can give him praise when it's called for, but not you guys. You guys find issue with every single thing the man does.

Romney's non-campaign event thing looks like it was done without much thinking. All politicians do photo-ops, they don't bother me, but at least try to not make it look so staged. Just as silly as Paul Ryan rolling into a soup kitchen with his family and washing three already-cleaned pots.

Give me Dick Cheney back. At least he didn't bother trying to do any of that, I respect that position far more than just screwing with everyone.

[woodchip]

Cob, one of the navy seals that died was painting a terrorist position and calling for a spectre gun ship to hit the target. The seal got no support and in turn, because of the laser, he in turn was targeted with mortar fire and killed.

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, it gets even better. Romney's campaign staff was worried that there would be an empty truck for their little staged "relief rally", so staffers went to Wal-Mart and "bought" $5000 worth of food and diapers, just so people could be seen handing Romney a donation.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/th ... lief-event

Is Romney really that stupid? If he'd wanted to make a huge political statement, he could have whipped out his own checkbook at that rally, if he even has one that is , and written out a donation to the Red Cross right then and there. But I'm willing to bet he's never donated any money to any "charity" other than the Mormon Church. If Romney is this incompetent at running a campaign, I'd hate to see him as pres.

CUDA, I don't get your picture either. What SEAL mission are you talking about woody?

[woodchip]

The Benghazi debacle. As for staged events:

"In a beautifully scripted account of the storm, a question was asked of Obama, the only question allowed; “How will this storm affect the election?”

In another beautifully scripted response, Obama said, “The election is the last thing on my mind. The first and foremost concern is the safety of the people….” and yakity yak. That question and answer were no doubt safely on the teleprompter. It was a staged question and answer.

The clincher is that [in] a fleeting view of the attendees of the press briefing, the one who asked the question appeared to be David Axelrod, the architect of the Obama campaign. A second quick view of the attendees seemed to confirm that indeed, it was Axelrod. This holds true to Obama’s slogan: Never let a good crisis go to waste."

[vision]

I've seen some of the coldest people ever on this forum. I'm continually amazed. I now understand reality TV addiction. The extent of hate and stupidity some people harbor is scary.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, the Republican Governor, Chris Christie, is obviously happy with what Obama is doing at the moment.

[Spidey]

What is Obama doing at the moment, besides handing out platitudes?

Oh, and I love the line about red tape and bureaucracy…no Democrats don’t tolerate that stuff…they create it.

[CUDA]

I don't understand that picture Cuda.

CUDA, I don't get your picture either. What SEAL mission are you talking about woody?

you dont get that picture because you've been spoon feed a BS story by the likes of the liberal media. maybe you both should try doing some real research in the matter of Benghazi. maybe you should have a desire to know the truth of the matter instead of what Chris Matthews, Andrea Mitchell, and Michael Moore want you to believe.

[CobGobbler]

Oh ok, the second statement was in reference to Libya. I thought it was about Bin Laden as well; that's why I didn't understand it.

As for Benghazi, I'm not sure there is enough actual information to warrant such a claim. These ideas seem to fall in line with those that think that Bush purposefully let Al Qaeda attack us on 9/11 to start a war in the Middle East. Do you guys honestly believe that the President, in the middle of a re-election campaign, literally told those under attack that they weren't getting help? That seems pretty silly. The CIA says there was no stand down order, but Fox News says there was. I'm not sure who to believe.

[CUDA]

Oh ok, the second statement was in reference to Libya. I thought it was about Bin Laden as well; that's why I didn't understand it.

it was.
the point was just as it said. Obama asked for the SEAL's help they responded. when the SEAL's asked for Obama's help, they were told to stand down

Do you guys honestly believe that the President, in the middle of a re-election campaign, literally told those under attack that they weren't getting help? That seems pretty silly.

it goes MUCH deeper than just that. it probably wouldn't hurt to look into it, just for your own peace of mind

The CIA says there was no stand down order, but Fox News says there was. I'm not sure who to believe.

apparently this information is in the form of an email from a highly regarded Senator. again research on my part as well would be in order. I'll see what more I can dig up.

[callmeslick]

Bottom line is this, and it goes beyond Obama vs Romney: A storm like Sandy demonstrates exactly HOW MUCH and to how great an extent, a large diverse nation in modern times relies on central governance. That goes to the absolute core of the GOP premise that the least government is the best.
Over and out from Delaware....
all 3 houses standing, no power in Berks county PA, all fine in Delaware, minor screen and awning damage in VA. My fishing beach is f-ed up, but otherwise all is well.

[Tunnelcat]

What is Obama doing at the moment, besides handing out platitudes?

Oh, and I love the line about red tape and bureaucracy…no Democrats don’t tolerate that stuff…they create it.

Like Bush did when he flew over New Orleans after Katrina, and put in "heck-of-a-job-Brownie into FEMA to run things, AFTER he got done with his oh-so-important vacation? I see things worked out quite well with a Republican in office.

CUDA, these SEALS are blaming Obama for what? How the hell do they know who denied their damn request? Did Obama tell them to go to hell to their faces? Last I heard, that's what military generals, officers and CIA wienies are there for, to decide the best use of resources during some national security crisis and THEN ADVISE the President of those facts. The Commander in Chief just doesn't plan things down to the plebe level and gnat's eyebrow. He's not Superman. Besides, 2 hours, the time it would have taken a special ops team to get to Benghazi, wouldn't have been enough time to even save anyone from the first assault anyway. It's a moot point and another anti-Obama meme.

And why in the hell is this group of anti-Obama military personnel, called SOS, even going around command and dissing their Commander in Chief like a bunch of rogue assholes? Where's the protocol, decorum and respect here, well before the truth even comes out? Why aren't these guys being court martialed for questioning their commander's decisions and judgement? The founder of this SOS group is a Birther for crying out loud too! There's an unbiased and intelligent opinion. This guy wants to take to the streets because he thinks Obama has mistreated military personnel? Why isn't he going after Republicans instead for cutting the funding of the Veterans Administration or Veterans Education Programs that leaves our veterans hanging out to dry after they return from war? Republicans use and dispose of more veterans than anyone on the planet.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts ... _a_birther

[CUDA]

Oh, and I love the line about red tape and bureaucracy…no Democrats don’t tolerate that stuff…they create it.

Like Bush did when he flew over New Orleans after Katrina, and put in "heck-of-a-job-Brownie into FEMA to run things, AFTER he got done with his oh-so-important vacation? I see things worked out quite well with a Republican in office.

I knew you couldnt resist making this about Bush, just cant control yourself can you

CUDA, these SEALS are blaming Obama for what? How the hell do they know who denied their damn request? Did Obama tell them to go to hell to their faces? Last I heard, that's what military generals, officers and CIA wienies are there for, to decide the best use of resources during some national security crisis and THEN ADVISE the President of those facts. The Commander in Chief just doesn't plan things down to the plebe level and gnat's eyebrow. He's not Superman. Besides, 2 hours, the time it would have taken a special ops team to get to Benghazi, wouldn't have been enough time to even save anyone from the first assault anyway. It's a moot point and another anti-Obama meme.

until you choose to look at any of the facts in this discussion i'm not wasting my breath talking to partisan hack that will ultimately blame GW for what happened anyways

And why in the hell is this group of anti-Obama military personnel, called SOS, even going around command and dissing their Commander in Chief like a bunch of rogue assholes? Where's the protocol, decorum and respect here, well before the truth even comes out? Why aren't these guys being court martialed for questioning their commander's decisions and judgement? The founder of this SOS group is a Birther for crying out loud too! There's an unbiased and intelligent opinion. This guy wants to take to the streets because he thinks Obama has mistreated military personnel? Why isn't he going after Republicans instead for cutting the funding of the Veterans Administration or Veterans Education Programs that leaves our veterans hanging out to dry after they return from war? Republicans use and dispose of more veterans than anyone on the planet.

just like you blame GW for everything, are you a rogue ★■◆● too?

[flip]

All I can say, is the best that can be said about our government, taking 9/11 and Benghazi into account, is that they are completely friggin incompetent altogether.

[CobGobbler]

No I think 9/11 and Benghazi prove that we cannot protect every place on Earth at all times. This ★■◆● is going to happen no matter how well protected places are. As sad as it is, this is going to happen from time to time. It's all about mitigating how bad and how often. I didn't blame Bush for 9/11 and I don't blame Obama for this. Every once in awhile we get caught with our pants down, we did in 2001 and we did again this year. It will happen again sometime in the future. Only a matter of time.

[Tunnelcat]

The CIA was more involved than we thought. The Birther nutcases need to find another scapegoat other than the Black President they don't like or respect.

CUDA, the military is not a democracy. You either give orders or you follow orders. You don't question orders. If you don't like those orders, though sh*t. If you diss your commander, you're in tough sh*t. Plebes don't get to vote, or raise a ruckus. You cause a ruckus, you can be court martialed if the higher ups take exception to your ruckus.

http://news.yahoo.com/detailed-account- ... itics.html

[CUDA]

The Bush nutcases need to find another scapegoat other than the Ex-President they don't like or respect.

Fixed it for you. because we all know you were going to say it anyways

CUDA, the military is not a democracy. You either give orders or you follow orders. You don't question orders. If you don't like those orders, though sh*t. If you diss your commander, you're in tough sh*t. Plebes don't get to vote, or raise a ruckus. You cause a ruckus, you can be court martialed if the higher ups take exception to your ruckus.

WRONG never served in the Military did you. there are certain types of orders that you need to question. the military does not want a blind adherence.

[Tunnelcat]

Well then, prove me wrong. I had relatives in the military. Last time I heard, if a plebe questioned the orders of a superior officer, the plebe is usually told to shut up. If he refused an order, things went far worse for him. I stand by my statement. The military is not a democracy. It has rules of order and decorum that wouldn't go over well in the general populace.

Besides, the CIA involvement here is a whole different ball game now anyway. Quit your Birther-based Obama bashing.

[CUDA]

Quit your Birther-based Obama bashing.

and of course you have proof that I'm a birther and your not doing what you tend to ALWAYS do and lay blame on people based on a liberal media bias and nothing to back that up but your opinion

[Heretic]

article 90 (iv) Relationship to statutory or constitutional rights. The order must not conflict with the statutory or constitutional rights of the person receiving the order.

There a few more than that also.

What if you have captured 20 pows and you commanding officer gives you the order to gun them down would you fallow that order TC?

[vision]

What if you have captured 20 pows and you commanding officer gives you the order to gun them down would you fallow that order TC?

My dad had to do that in Vietnam. He still has nightmares about killing unarmed men. Of course, he was in a life or death situation. It's hard to use military examples when talking about ethics since there is a lot of unethical, dehumanizing practices in any military. Fear is used to control people, not rationality.

[Heretic]

That is true, and I did my years in the service refuse many of orders, was also cleared of all charges at court martial each time. I was dislike by more then one commanding officer. People who think that the military want people to blindly follow orders are greatly mistaken in their mind.

[Foil]

So you were ordered to do unethical/illegal things, refused, and were cleared multiple times? Anything you can talk about? [Sounds like it would make a really interesting thread.]

[Heretic]

It would indeed but the telling of those tales would have me in more hot water than disobeying those orders.

[Isaac]

And that's just what we need. Government agents monitoring this forum..

[Flatlander]

just like you blame GW for everything, are you a rogue ★■◆● too?

Oh, oh, can I be a rogue ★■◆● too?

[CUDA]

just like you blame GW for everything, are you a rogue ★■◆● too?

Oh, oh, can I be a rogue ★■◆● too?

SURE!!!!! if you're going to pull the same stupid blame GW for everything that's wrong in the world crap that TC has pulled everyday for the last 4 years, we be more than happy to give you the same Moniker that she started doling out herself.

[Tunnelcat]

SURE!!!!! if you're going to pull the same stupid blame GW for everything that's wrong in the world crap that TC has pulled everyday for the last 4 years, we be more than happy to give you the same Moniker that she started doling out herself.

Apparently, I'm not alone. More people in this country blame Bush for our present mess than Obama.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... r-economy/

And CUDA, I'm not calling you a Birther. I just think an intelligent guy like you should quit getting sucked into the Fox News/Birther conspiracy theories like they're facts written in stone.

[CUDA]

SURE!!!!! if you're going to pull the same stupid blame GW for everything that's wrong in the world crap that TC has pulled everyday for the last 4 years, we be more than happy to give you the same Moniker that she started doling out herself.

Apparently, I'm not alone. More people in this country blame Bush for our present mess than Obama.

and they're all Democrats but the problem is that the one Obama and the Democrats don't want to blame is themselves. they are just as much to blame for whats gone on as your Antichrist. they just done have the courage to take the blame for their actions., thats so Sigmund Freud of them. all of my problems are my Parents fault. if I would have just had a better upbringing then I wouldn't be so screwed up

And CUDA, I'm not calling you a Birther. I just think an intelligent guy like you should quit getting sucked into the Fox News/Birther conspiracy theories like they're facts written in stone.

you keep saying I believe the birther conspiracy. First off the birther Conspiracy is a Donald Trump thing NOT FOX news, you really should stop believing the left wing wacko's on MSBNC like Olberman and the likes. second I don't believe in the birther thing, I've said it Multiple times, you know it.... why do you keep repeating it????

[Tunnelcat]

...and they're all Democrats but the problem is that the one Obama and the Democrats don't want to blame is themselves. they are just as much to blame for whats gone on as your Antichrist. they just done have the courage to take the blame for their actions., thats so Sigmund Freud of them. all of my problems are my Parents fault. if I would have just had a better upbringing then I wouldn't be so screwed up

You don't think the tea party coming into power in 2010 and almost every Republican in the House blocking any and ALL legislation had anything to do with our problems. It was bad enough in 2008, but it really ramped up in 2010 after the midterms. The Senate is devolving into chaos with the use of formal rules to block anything and everything, using tactics such as the filibuster and "the hold", many of which are done anonymously. And although both parties are guilty of using "the hold", several prominent Republicans, Tom Coburn and Jim DeMint, are the undisputed champions of abusing it.The graph in the next link below is all the evidence you need. If you don't believe what mostly Republican actions have done, you're blind. Right now, the Republican party needs to take the lion's share of the blame for being the most obstructionist under this President.

http://mirroronamerica.blogspot.com/201 ... sured.html

http://www.american.com/archive/2008/ma ... ken-senate

However, obstructionism only goes so far. Putting in a President from the other party isn't going to solve the problems in Congress. If Romney wins, he'll still have a Democratic Senate. If Romney want's to get anything done and not look as weak as Obama, the Republicans will have to hold their collective noses and cave in at times so that ol' "moderate Mitt" won't look "weak". Heaven forbid they feminize their guy.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/oc ... or-reform/

you keep saying I believe the birther conspiracy. First off the birther Conspiracy is a Donald Trump thing NOT FOX news, you really should stop believing the left wing wacko's on MSBNC like Olberman and the likes. second I don't believe in the birther thing, I've said it Multiple times, you know it.... why do you keep repeating it????

Fox News is one of the ONLY news outlets to give these crazies any substantial air time, AS SERIOUS NEWS, including giving that Birther SEAL a national platform to spew his propaganda about the Benghazi attacks.