goofy shutdown/restart (WinXP, of course!) - [now new build]

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:11 am

Windows XP (still!!!) to be precise. I was screwing around with an sd card reader and when I plugged it into the USB port via an extension cable, my screen just went blank, then the light at the bottom started slowly blinking, like there was no signal. Held the power button down and restarted the thing several times, but still couldn't get the monitor to work. Thought maybe I'd blown the power supply.

Crap.

After messing with it for another half an hour, I just unplugged the power cord at the back of the pc, waited a few seconds, and then plugged it back in. Then the pc booted up normally , and apparently now all is well.

What the hell. What just happened there? Did I just spend an hour in the twilight zone, or does this kind of behavior sound familiar to any of you folks?

I just hate it when stuff doesn't make sense, but I just don't have the background to figure this out by myself.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:22 am

Sounds like the part was shorted or defective and your power supply went into protection mode.

Just a guess tho.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:16 am

One thing I've learned about computers over the years: if something stops working, then magically fixes itself, it's best not to tempt fate by questioning it further. The computer gods don't like it.

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:22 am

hmm... my guess would be that the USB drew too much power and the whole system undervolted (that's a word right?).
unfortunately, i couldn't tell you what caused it. Either the device drawing more power than it's rated for, the USB bus (ie: the mobo) itself drawing more power than it should have, or the PSU not giving enough power.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:10 pm

yup, sounds like a short and PSU Went into protection

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:10 pm

Top Gun wrote:One thing I've learned about computers over the years: if something stops working, then magically fixes itself, it's best not to tempt fate by questioning it further. The computer gods don't like it.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:45 pm

roid wrote:hmm... my guess would be that the USB drew too much power and the whole system undervolted (that's a word right?).
unfortunately, i couldn't tell you what caused it. Either the device drawing more power than it's rated for, the USB bus (ie: the mobo) itself drawing more power than it should have, or the PSU not giving enough power.

You don't happen to have one of the original-design 3d pro USB converters, do you? I self-built a couple (so the solders aren't guaranteed to be perfect) and they both seemed to fail with a short/high current draw that made my mobo do all kinds of funky things. Incidentally, the only two power supply failures that I've had have both occurred a few months after each adapter failed.

All that to say: I think people are on the right track. My experience is that the old AT-mega8-based 3d pro adapter was my number one suspect.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:59 pm

Thanks for the replies, all !! I just got back into town after a long weekend of vacationing. Went to the Black Hills. It was fun.

Yeah, I was a bit spooked by the bad timing (for me) of the PSU (potentially) going bonkers just before I left for vacation. Frankly, I'd like to just junk my current desktop and build a new one, which would be a first for me. My current C: drive is running out of room and it's past time already to have a Win7 box. Video used to run fine on this system, but lately seems to be slower and slower. I will try to collect a newer set of parts bit by bit, but first I'll need to allocate some spare monies.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:08 pm

Tell us what you want to do with the machine and we will help you figure out how much you money you should spend on it.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:38 pm

Thanks Krom. I'd appreciate your and anyone else's input, as you guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

I mostly use the computer for internet, Office apps and several other commercial software packages (e.g my family history program). I still mess around with my old Descent installs, but I'm not a big gamer. I have some music, but not really an audiophile. Photo storage is becoming an issue. Probably move to get Photoshop at some point. Do a reasonable amount of graphics and photo editing, so it would be great if files could load faster. Rather have more usb ports than fewer. Will need to move up to Win 7 and Office 2010. Not interested in going touch screen on Win 8.

So, moderate graphics performance, moderate system speed, more inside storage. Any suggestions, tutorials, helpful websites for novice builders, etc. welcomed.

Then maybe I can take my old system and just convert it into a big old backup storage location. (

)

edit: more power on the PSU desired (I guess), but quiet is at a premium. A little bling on the case is OK, but not too many flashing lights, since I just tend to leave the system on, and it lives where I sleep.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:26 pm

Shouldn't be too demanding, I built some machines that could handle the bulk of that for around $650 each. In your case it sounds like you could use a little more storage, pictures add up surprisingly fast and since you never know with hard drives, something as important as pictures should probably be protected with redundancy. Intel CPUs are the way to go right now, Ivy Bridge has an effective graphics core built right into the CPU so you don't even need a video card if you aren't gaming (and with the correct motherboard, if you changed your mind later you can always upgrade to a higher performing video card). Toss in a newer SSD and its probably going to come in under $1000 for at least 5 years worth of rock solid office/internet performance. So I'd say save up $1000 and you will be able to comfortably build a system with that amount of lifespan in mind without having to compromise on anything.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:11 pm

yeah, I think I can do something in the $500 $1K range. I'd probably opt for non-ssd drives, since it seems that ssd $/GB is still a fair bit higher than mechanical drives (?). So how many watts of a power supply is typical for this sort of application?

roid · Post by **roid** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:51 am

snoopy wrote:
roid wrote:hmm... my guess would be that the USB drew too much power and the whole system undervolted (that's a word right?).
unfortunately, i couldn't tell you what caused it. Either the device drawing more power than it's rated for, the USB bus (ie: the mobo) itself drawing more power than it should have, or the PSU not giving enough power.
You don't happen to have one of the original-design 3d pro USB converters, do you? I self-built a couple (so the solders aren't guaranteed to be perfect) and they both seemed to fail with a short/high current draw that made my mobo do all kinds of funky things. Incidentally, the only two power supply failures that I've had have both occurred a few months after each adapter failed.

All that to say: I think people are on the right track. My experience is that the old AT-mega8-based 3d pro adapter was my number one suspect.

i have one, not sure if it's original design though. And in any case i have as yet not plugged it into this computer

Nah my experience with this is more just from seeing the problem a bunch. The latest example being that my (new) computer sometimes refuses to get past BIOS if i'm currently USB charging my ebook reader from it. Doesn't crash or anything, it just sits there waiting, with an error code, until i unplug the ebook, then the error code changes to what i guess is an "i'm ok you're ok" code and it continues it's startup. Bossy little thing hehe.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:01 am

A stock clocked Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge system with no video card and just a couple drives will run on a really puny PSU. The ones I built draw 30-60w at the outlet, literally so small a load that the PSU is probably drawing a third of that itself (granted, they are dual cores not quad cores, add 30 watts for a quad core). I could run those PCs in practice on a 90w PSU; but for the record they are built on Antec 380w PSUs.

And on the SSD price/capacity front, that is inherent of the type of memory used in SSDs so they will pretty much always be more expensive per gigabyte than mechanical drives. But the capacity isn't really the point of a SSD, they were built to address performance and they make a huge difference at that. The general idea is you get a 128 or 256 GB SSD to run your OS and programs which generally like lots of performance but aren't particularly demanding on capacity. And then you store everything else (pictures, music, etc) on mechanical hard drives that can get a lot more capacity for your buck. I have a 160 GB SSD in my computer, but I also have 6 TB worth of mechanical hard drives in it. These days you can get a 128 GB SSD for around $100 so it really isn't that much of an expense, and it is totally worth it. Especially if you have $1k to throw around there really isn't any reason not to include a SSD in a build. You could get a 128 GB SSD and a pair of 1.5 TB hard drives in RAID1 for around $250 on the tag, leaving $750 for the rest which is easily doable even with a quad core CPU.

Edit: If I were building this machine *today* with a $1000 budget this is what I'd do:
Rosewill Blackbone Mid Tower
Intel BOXDZ77BH55K Motherboard
Antec EarthWatts 380
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge
Samsung 830 Series 128 GB SSD
Crucial 8 GB DDR3/1600 MHz
Segate Barracuda Green 1.5 TB (x2)
Asus 24x DVD-RW
Windows 7 Professional x64
Total: $933 + Shipping.
Optional: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO +$35 = $968

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:07 pm

Thanks Krom. Yeah, I later read through the discussion on ssd drives you had on the 2012 PC and Workstations thread and I started to understand better what what going on there. Thanks also for the equipment list - I'll be reading up on it. Sounds like it will easily blow past what I'm running on now.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:46 pm

Krom, Asus apparently had some kind of firmware issue with those DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS drives, and they released a 24B3ST version.

something about getting the rotational speed soo high they shattered/exploded the discs, from what i read somewhere i forget now, the 24B3ST version prohibits that rotational speed by about 2-3%

personally i have the B1S drives, 2 of them actually..... and i have yet to have a disc shatter/explode inside the drive, but just putting that up for you

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:15 pm

Sounds pretty fishy, if you look for some burn graphs of that drive it is clearly a 24x CAV type, which means it spins at a constant ~14,000 RPM when going at full throttle (580 RPM on the outer edge x 24 = 13,920). The physical limits of DVD media is around 32,000 RPM (~56x CAV) so there is plenty of safety margin left in the disk.

Theoretically it'd be possible to hit the physical limit at 24x with a CLV (constant linear velocity) drive, which at the inner edge would require almost 37,000 RPM (1x DVD is CLV 1530 - 580 RPM), but no optical drive even approaches that velocity.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:09 pm

i dont know, i just thought id share that.......

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:11 pm

Krom wrote:A stock clocked Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge system with no video card and just a couple drives will run on a really puny PSU. The ones I built draw 30-60w at the outlet, literally so small a load that the PSU is probably drawing a third of that itself (granted, they are dual cores not quad cores, add 30 watts for a quad core). I could run those PCs in practice on a 90w PSU; but for the record they are built on Antec 380w PSUs.

And on the SSD price/capacity front, that is inherent of the type of memory used in SSDs so they will pretty much always be more expensive per gigabyte than mechanical drives. But the capacity isn't really the point of a SSD, they were built to address performance and they make a huge difference at that. The general idea is you get a 128 or 256 GB SSD to run your OS and programs which generally like lots of performance but aren't particularly demanding on capacity. And then you store everything else (pictures, music, etc) on mechanical hard drives that can get a lot more capacity for your buck. I have a 160 GB SSD in my computer, but I also have 6 TB worth of mechanical hard drives in it. These days you can get a 128 GB SSD for around $100 so it really isn't that much of an expense, and it is totally worth it. Especially if you have $1k to throw around there really isn't any reason not to include a SSD in a build. You could get a 128 GB SSD and a pair of 1.5 TB hard drives in RAID1 for around $250 on the tag, leaving $750 for the rest which is easily doable even with a quad core CPU.

Edit: If I were building this machine *today* with a $1000 budget this is what I'd do:
Rosewill Blackbone Mid Tower
Intel BOXDZ77BH55K Motherboard
Antec EarthWatts 380
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge
Samsung 830 Series 128 GB SSD
Crucial 8 GB DDR3/1600 MHz
Segate Barracuda Green 1.5 TB (x2)
Asus 24x DVD-RW
Windows 7 Professional x64
Total: $933 + Shipping.
Optional: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO +$35 = $968

I think I'm finally getting up the gumption to pull the trigger on this list, Krom. Sounds like this AHCI thing is something I'll need to pay attention to when I do the BIOS setup and Win7 install (based on what I read in one of the other recent threads). Are there any other items that come to mind that I might encounter (as an utter noob) while doing this build?

Also, would the Asus DVD drive also be able to be installed in an older PC (Dell unit running XP)? I'm thinking of picking up an extra one to install in a friend's PC.

Thanks.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:35 am

As long as your friend has a free SATA port and power/data cables for his PC it should work fine.

The only things you might run into on a build like that are mostly just mechanical assembly/layout work. Pretty common things like the motherboard standoffs aren't factory installed in the case, so you have to install them. The I/O shield that comes with the motherboard should be installed in the case but you have to get the orientation right and it is an extremely tight fit so it is never easy to snap in. The case has some holes in the motherboard tray for routing cables behind it, I usually run the bulk of the cables behind there since it improves airflow but it takes some planning.

There is a somewhat variable order to assembly that I use: the first thing I do is take the case out of the box and put in the motherboard standoffs and I/O shield, then before I take anything else out of the anti-static bags I install the PSU into the case and I plug it into a grounded wall socket so the case is grounded. Depending on the clearance from the screw holes and if the cooler has a back plate, I'll often install the CPU, RAM and CPU cooler into the motherboard before putting it in the case. And often it takes a couple tries to get the motherboard lined up properly with the I/O shield, occasionally it can't be done without gently bending up a couple of the tabs on the shield with your finger to keep them from hitting. After that it is making the front panel connections, routing cables and installing drives/add on cards.

Perhaps the most important thing is to read the install sections of the manuals and install guides fully before you start, and make sure you have all the tools you will need. (The only real oddballs are the motherboard standoffs which require a metric hex driver.)

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:57 am

I do find this thread humorous - starting from the title
Goofy shutdown and reboot(Windows of course)"

You plug in new hardware and your system Sh!ts the bed ...

Must be windows

Still using XP - you haven't had an issue since its release in 2001

Must be windows

Took several reboots - and it's through a "USB extension cord"

Must be Windows

Reality = PEBKAC, stop piece mealing your systems with crap

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:39 pm

BUBBALOU wrote:I do find this thread humorous - starting from the title
Goofy shutdown and reboot(Windows of course)"

Reality = PEBKAC, . . .

Obviously. That's why I pleaded for help for a new build. Noob's gotta start somewhere.

Well, Krom, I just went for the items in the list you supplied. Thanks for that. I looked over specs and thought I might look at a couple other things, but then I said screw it, I'll just stick with this for a first build. Only issue was that the Samsung 830 128MB ssd was now out of stock. Figures. Just my luck. I see two other similar Samsung models (MZ-7PC128D/AM and MZ-7PC064D/AM); would those be pretty much the same thing as the one you listed, albeit a few bucks more expensive. Should I just wait a few days and get one of the new 840 series ones that are coming out?

I'm really looking forward to this. When the parts come in, anyone's prayers would be welcomed. Murphy and I have a real love/hate relationship thing going on lately, so I'd be grateful for the help.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:56 pm

The MZ-7PC128D/AM is the desktop upgrade kit, so it includes a few extra items from the bare drive version, like a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter along with power and data cables and disk cloning software (Norton Ghost 15.0). Some of the extras are a bit redundant but they won't hurt, the drive itself is the same. The other one you listed is probably the 64 GB model, since I'm pretty good at policing my data and even my OS partition is at 60 GB (~1 year in, and 20 GB of it is from system restore), I'd say its probably too small for comfort.

Otherwise the 840 Pro is brand new and currently is pretty much the single fastest SSD available on the market, but being the newest isn't always a good thing as it is considerably more expensive and the 830 has had way more time in use to have all the bugs worked out. The non-pro 840 is still pretty fast, but uses a different/less expensive type of flash memory which hurts its performance and endurance a bit, plus that type of flash memory has rarely been used in SSDs before so there is more potential for bugs and glitches to show up in the short term till they work them all out.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:30 pm

heh. Yeah,, went looking for that info and by the time I got back you had already posted. I copied in the wrong number of the 064D model, but i guess it doesn't matter. I guess I should just spring for the MZ-7PC128D/AM kit anyway, since I'm gonna need the 2.5 to 3.5 drive adapter doohickey anyways, aren't I? If not it looks like I can still get the bare drive now from B&H.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:42 am

Yeah, the bracket could come in handy because I don't think that particular case comes with one.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:42 pm

woohoo, the parts all came in. Let's get to buildin' . . .

ok, all put together. I've got one plug left over, labelled "HD Audio". I don't see where the plug is for this on the mobo. Let me poke around some more. Oh, and I have to find a spare power plug to plug it in.

And I think I'll get a new keyboard and mouse for this system. I've had a wireless keyboard and mouse for a while now and like it, so can anyone give me some recommends of some good wireless combos.

EDIT - ahhh, I see now where the bright yellow plug on the board next to the PCI slots is where the HD Audio plug from the front panel goes.

Incidentally, how far do you tighten down on the screws on the retention bracket on the Hyper 212 EVO cooler. I've got it on fairly snug, but I don't want to under do it (or over do it)?

EDIT2 - lol, I was going to power it all up tonight, then realized that my monitor has a DVI connector, not displayport. I'll have to run out to get an adapter. Wow, things really change when you're out of the hardware market for just a few years (well, it SEEMED like just a few years!).

oh . . . . should I be plugging the monitor into the hdmi port?

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:22 pm

ok, got a displayport to vga adapter for the old vga monitor that I have, so plugged everything in and fired up the new system.

cool, lights come on and all fans spin . . . . unfortunately, the system doesn't POST properly. I get repeating three beeps and a POST code 32 on the board. three beeps indicates a memory error, but I'm not making sense from the manual as to what the "32" refers to.

crapper.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:40 pm

the 3* Range of POST codes is indicating a recovery module initialization for the BIOS should it become corrupted or after a bad flash. this is coming from the Intel website itself, however, i cannot find a specific code for the number 32. have you tried flashing the BIOS already? did it get interrupted ? have you tried the fail safe BIOS recovery from the CD?

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:48 pm

hi ace. no, i haven't tried anything yet. just turned the system on to see if it would at least POST, then maybe install windows if I was lucky.

i'm not lucky.

how do you flash the bios? (just to show you how much of a noob i am).

EDIT - Incidentally, anyone, the Win7 Pro x64 OS noted in Krom's list came labeled as an "OEM System Builder Pack" and has a line in the description that says "if . . . , it must be preinstalled on the hard drive of the fully assembled computer system, using the OEM Preinstallation kit (OPK)." What is this all about?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:34 am

sounds like it came from the factory with a bad flash of BIOS. your manual should have all the info necessary to do flash... just follow it step by step.

OEM Builds just dont have Tech Support IIRC. nothing out of the ordinary for a OEM Build Pack

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:34 pm

Windows RETAIL : includes limited tech support from Microsoft

Windows OEM : tech support comes from system builder (you) and not from Microsoft

Heretic · Post by **Heretic** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:04 pm

I do believe your bios has to post before you can flash from a floppy or other method.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:01 pm

I'm not prepared to crap on the bios just yet. I pulled the two 4GB sticks and then tested each one in the DIMM1 slot. One of the sticks seemed to start up fine, but when I pulled that one and put in the second stick, I got the three beeps again and the same post code 32 on the board. So I am returning the apparently faulty memory for replacement. I'll try again in a couple of days, once the new sticks arrive.

Too bad. It purred so pretty with just the one (good) stick in. Spin, clock - SPIN!!

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:04 pm

No joy on the new set up Crucial memory sticks; with both in the DIMM1 and DIMM2 (blue) slots, I still get 3 beeps and the 32 post code. However, this time, when I test each stick individually in the DIMM1 slot, I get no beeps and a "00" on the post code display. I also notice that not all of the board status LEDs are lit. It looks like one of them is labeled "CPU", so I guess that's bad. Also, the two VR status LEDs nearest 2x4 power plug on the board are slowly flashing on and off.

Anyone have some diagnostic hints they can throw my way??

EDIT: scrap all that. I can get to the BIOS screen (after connecting the monitor, duh), with one mem stick in the DIMM1 slot. BIOS version is 0057; not the most recent one. The SSD is detected, I changed it to number 1 in drive order on the BIOS page. Hmm, the SSD and the optical drive show up on the configuration screen, but neither of the 2 Seagate drives are listed (under SATA devices), but the 2 Seagate drives DO show up on the BIOS screen under Drive Order.

Should I just go ahead and see if I can install windows with the 4 GB mem installed? What else should I be looking for in the BIOS utility to make sure the system is at least capable of booting properly. I've never started up a system totally from the ground up, so I don't know what I should be seeing as "normal" behavior.

Heretic · Post by **Heretic** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:29 pm

Here ya go http://www.intel.com/support/motherboar ... 025434.htm

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Thanks Heretic. Every little bit's gonna help. Unfortunately this doesn't tell me what the "32" post code means, but that may not be the primary issue at the moment. I put up a post in the on the Intel community boards, and it seems like at least several other people have had a similar problem with some flavors of memory and this board.

On the BIOS config screen, for SATA devices, SATA port 0 is the Samsung SSD and SATA port 2 is the ASUS DVD. the two Seagate hard drives are not listed. I have them plugged in to the gray SATA port on the board; should they be in the black plug??

http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/hi ... dz77bh-55k

Heretic · Post by **Heretic** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:39 pm

Yes put them in the black controller. http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20955/e ... uide02.pdf

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:32 pm

OK, I see where the blue and the black SATA ports on the board run through the Platform Controller Hub. So what is the "discrete controller" that the gray SATA port is supposed to connect to? Just curious.

dissent · Post by **dissent** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:53 am

Should I be suspicious of an incompatibility of the DZ77BH-55K board with the Crucial memory?? Would that be a common thing that any of you have run into when spec-ing out board/memory combinations? Crucial's web page says that the CT2KIT51264BA160B is a bona fide upgrade kit for this board, but Intel's web page doesn't list it. Instead they have this and this.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:19 am

I've used crucial memory in a half dozen Intel motherboards with no issues, it should work fine. And yeah, you can install windows with just 1 stick of RAM in without having to worry about issues from adding the second one in later.