Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250
)--I think the best goal we can hope for on this board is an accurate understanding of the ramifications of the positions we ascribe to, and where they are in relation to each other, and I think that is a tall order for most people, and it's really, I believe, where an awful lot of argument hails from. The sooner we get THERE, the sooner the bar will actually be raised.
Not so fast. The difference between an America under Obama and an America under, say Ron Paul, or even an America under Romney, justifies this sort of language. I think you're reading into it too much. You and many other American's who back Obama consider that you have won in this election. That's not because you have steered the evolution of a unified America, it's because the conservative desires of people like myself have been shut out, effectively. You believe that Obama is the champion of many of the goals you have for this country (in your particular case I allow this may actually be true). If he is the champion, them what are we moving into if not Obama's America? It is what Obama as the president is making of America! This is not blatant Obama bashing, it is a realistic appraisal of our administrational situation, whether you're sympathetic or not.callmeslick wrote:...and before anyone wonders or questions why I would dismiss this tripe out of hand, there is no 'Obama's America', just as there was no Bush's America or Clinton's America or so on.
I reject the notion of a slowly evolving nation--I don't think this convenient and picturesque wording does justice to what you yourself have admitted is taking place--the steering of ignorant masses, along with the education of our nations children over the years away from more conservative notions toward more socialist or liberal ideas. This is not a natural evolution, and it's not a healthy thing. Also the pendulum is a very crude and conveniently simple notion for describing what takes place in this country, IMO. I think it's more like a sort of ratcheting worm-drive, except that does not do justice to the fact that some things which make for a loss of freedom have occurred under ostensibly conservative leadership, not just under the liberals.callmeslick wrote:America is and has been a slowly evolving nation. Elections show that, along with the pendulum swings along the way.
This is the internet--I was linking, not "regurgitating", ya forum Nazi.callmeslick wrote:Thorne to sell people on why they need to prepare for this supposed "New America", why don't you fill us in on your thoughts, instead of regurgitating some twit's online video garbage.
My goal is not so ambitious or decided. I just think he makes some good points. I could have posted it to the Cafe, but why when it will lead to E&C discussion if anywhere?Well I look at Detroit and how they tried to "reject the rich white man" way of governance and see the results. Now they are reduced to share cropper status depending on the rich white man to supply them with money to operate on. Heaven help us if the whole country winds up in this model.callmeslick wrote:...and before anyone wonders or questions why I would dismiss this tripe out of hand, there is no 'Obama's America', just as there was no Bush's America or Clinton's America or so on. America is and has been a slowly evolving nation. Elections show that, along with the pendulum swings along the way. The last election showed more about America rejecting Conservative Social agendas, and rejecting a rich, white guy running the economy than it did about Obama himself, or his policies. If you are trying, Thorne to sell people on why they need to prepare for this supposed "New America", why don't you fill us in on your thoughts, instead of regurgitating some twit's online video garbage.
No, while "white flight" was part of it, anyone with means including blacks/hispanics or any other race, left because of a deteriorating city. Your blaming Detroits woes on rich white people leaving is the real pantload. The real problem is the democratic machine has controlled the city for 40 years and has done so incompetently. And nice try comrade on blaming the state for rigged tax distribution. I guess you want to include Jennifer Granholm, who was the governor (democrat) for 8 years as also rigging the taxes. You're so loopy at times Slick it ain't even funny.callmeslick wrote:Geez, what a pantload. If anything, Detroit reflects the 'rich white man' abandoning the city and then the State backing them up by rigging the distribution of tax moneys.
Well how come the evil democratic machine hasn't destroyed New York, San Francisco, Chicago, or Houston? Something tells me there is more to the story here.woodchip wrote:The real problem is the democratic machine has controlled the city for 40 years and has done so incompetently.
