The fools of the left...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:43 pm

A New York newspaper published a helpful online map detailing gun permit holder households with their locations, NAMES and ADDRESSES.

Can anyone hold the paper accountable for robberies aided by this helpful home invaders' guide to unarmed families?

"Do you fools realize that you also made a map for criminals to use to find homes to rob that have no guns in them to protect themselves?" one reader wrote on Facebook.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12 ... t-holders/

A local New York newspaper is drawing the ire of its readers after publishing an interactive map that shows the names and addresses of thousands of residents who have handgun permits.

The online map was published by The Journal News along with an article under the headline: "The gun owner next door: What you don't know about the weapons in your neighborhood."

The newspaper obtained, and then published, the names and addresses of pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties through a Freedom of Information Act request.

The article, in explaining the decision to publish the information, pointed to the school massacre in nearby Newtown, Conn., and the concerns of some residents about which of their neighbors might have firearms.

But readers swiftly condemned the move. They pointed out that the interactive map could make the gun owners a target, but also make clear to would-be robbers which homes do not contain a gun.

"Do you fools realize that you also made a map for criminals to use to find homes to rob that have no guns in them to protect themselves?" one reader wrote on Facebook.

"You have just destroyed the privacy of these law abiding citizens and by releasing this list, you have equated them to that of sex offenders and murders," wrote another. "These are law abiding gun owners, they are no danger to anyone except for criminals. And with this information you have made them targets for both criminals and anti gun lobbyist who i am sure are going to treat them like monsters."

The newspaper, in a written statement, defended the decision to run the names.

"The massacre in Newtown remains top-of-mind for many of our readers," the statement said. "In the past week, conversation on our opinion pages and on our website, LoHud.com, has been keenly focused on gun control.

"Our readers are understandably interested to know about guns in their neighborhoods. We obtained the names and addresses of Westchester and Rockland residents who are licensed to own handguns through routine Freedom of Information law public-records requests."

The map showed the locations of pistol permit holders -- though did not specify whether those shown actually owned a weapon. Since rifles and shotguns can be bought without a permit, that information was not included.

The newspaper separately noted that the reporter on the story "owns a Smith & Wesson 686 .357 Magnum and has had a residence permit in New York City for that weapon since February 2011."

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:39 pm

Why do you think the paper is leftie? It could be being run by a family who loves kids. Sure, it was a stupid move, but just maybe it was voicing the concerns of all the women who probably wrote to the paper's opinion page. Mother's would be far more concerned about who owns guns in their kid's neighborhoods after Newtown. Maybe they caved to maternal public pressure.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:33 pm

"Stupid move" just doesn't say it, TC. Try criminally irresponsible. ★■◆● their excuses. That was so... terribly irresponsible, and the newspaper management should have been the final line of defense. I would be doing something about that ★■◆● if it happened around here.

The irony is in her attempt to shame or otherwise expose pistol owners to public harassment, she may very likely have struck a blow against those people without firearms.

And in case any of you are planning on defending this lady, consider that the paper could well have listed the numbers (by county, city, ...) without assigning a name and address to each one. The newspaper should be sued.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:31 pm

I wonder what the fallout would be if I listed the address's and family members names of every news reporter in the country

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:41 am

How dare the newspaper publish public information!

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:46 am

Couldn't anyone have gotten this information through a FOIA request?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:03 am

Well if it’s all so innocent and such, what other people can we gather information on and create a interactive map for…say gay married people…because it’s so harmless and all.

The fact that this kind of info is available anyway, seen to makes it a little too easy to dismiss what is going on here.

Motive is the issue here, and trying to scapegoat innocent people. (not to mention it’s not a newspapers job to make interactive maps, about law abiding citizens)

Where is the map of where all the illegal gun are?

How about a real service, instead of politically motivated kneejerk.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:13 pm

vision wrote:How dare the newspaper publish public information!

Jeff250 wrote:Couldn't anyone have gotten this information through a FOIA request?

I don't want to get all BlueFlames/Ferno/Top Gun, but some of you can really be fkin' dull sometimes... You're going to sit there and act like having the information publicly available, and having the information compiled into local, interactive, map form on popular public media highlighting specific people in your neighborhood are essentially the same thing. I'll just compile a list of Hispanics in my area as a public service to those who are interested, since the information is publicly available... To really have the full flavor, I would need the media in general to be pushing "go back to Mexico!". Now how about it? Publicly available so it's cool? I think I'll start handing out "Gun Owner" arm-bands...

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:13 pm

How about they publish an interactive map of which households are UNARMED. Lets see how that goes over....

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:36 pm

How dare they! The outrage!

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:14 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't want to get all BlueFlames/Ferno/Top Gun, but some of you can really be fkin' dull sometimes... You're going to sit there and act like having the information publicly available, and having the information compiled into local, interactive, map form on popular public media highlighting specific people in your neighborhood are essentially the same thing. I'll just compile a list of Hispanics in my area as a public service to those who are interested, since the information is publicly available... To really have the full flavor, I would need the media in general to be pushing "go back to Mexico!". Now how about it? Publicly available so it's cool? I think I'll start handing out "Gun Owner" arm-bands...

I'd be more angry at the government for making publicly available this information and for anyone who has already been secretly using it than at the newspaper who compiled it. For better or for worse, it's the day and age that we live in that any publicly available information will be compiled into a form that's easily searchable on the Internet. We can't stop the technology, so we have to demand control over information at its source.

Something happened here similarly when a local university paper FOIA'd all of the university employees' salaries and published them into a *.csv.

What if someone from the Ukraine had created the Web site instead? Give it another year, and someone from there would have figured it out too.

For better or for worse, you can't stop people from compiling publicly available information. You can stop the information from being public though.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:35 pm

Motive, people...Motive.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:15 pm

Jeff250 wrote:
Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't want to get all BlueFlames/Ferno/Top Gun, but some of you can really be fkin' dull sometimes... You're going to sit there and act like having the information publicly available, and having the information compiled into local, interactive, map form on popular public media highlighting specific people in your neighborhood are essentially the same thing. I'll just compile a list of Hispanics in my area as a public service to those who are interested, since the information is publicly available... To really have the full flavor, I would need the media in general to be pushing "go back to Mexico!". Now how about it? Publicly available so it's cool? I think I'll start handing out "Gun Owner" arm-bands...
I'd be more angry at the government for making publicly available this information and for anyone who has already been secretly using it than at the newspaper who compiled it. For better or for worse, it's the day and age that we live in that any publicly available information will be compiled into a form that's easily searchable on the Internet. We can't stop the technology, so we have to demand control over information at its source.

Something happened here similarly when a local university paper FOIA'd all of the university employee's salaries and published them into a *.csv.

What if someone from the Ukraine had created the Web site instead? Give it another year, and someone from there would have figured it out too.

For better or for worse, you can't stop people from compiling publicly available information. You can stop the information from being public though.

Jeff, I think you're being overly inventive. I happen to agree with you that information availability may be an issue, but that's where we part ways. Just because it could conceivably happen doesn't mean it's bound to, and just because the information is public doesn't absolve someone for using it to target people for fear, shame, or retribution in relation to terrible wrongs which many visible people in this country are attempting to UNJUSTLY associate with firearm availability and ownership (after all if gun availability and ownership is the problem, then owning a firearm makes you part of the problem).

Totally as an aside, I don't think anyone from the Ukraine could take advantage of the Freedom of Information Act, could they?

I guess part of what I'm saying is, by all means go ahead and be more angry at the government for making this information publicly available, and anyone who has been secretly using it (if it's secret I don't see what good it does you to be angry let along more angry at someone you're not even aware of...), but get the ★■◆● off of my back for simply being angry at the newspaper for painting a sign on the backs of gun owners, and at the same time essentially shouting that their neighbors are unarmed. Everybody should be pissed about this! And between you and me most perpetrators are not clever enough to abuse this "technology", so I don't know why anyone would argue that they could anyway.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:56 pm

Thorne, if we want to know who to be angry at, then sure, we can be angry at the newspaper all day long. But if we want to figure out how to prevent this from happening again, looking at the newspapers and all the other entities who could possibly compile this information won't be a scalable solution. We need to cut the information off from the original source.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:58 pm

Guns are cool! You can play cowboys and Indians!

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:40 pm

What? Does Ferno have the day off?

Jeff, I believe you're overstating the need for a "scalable" solution. Just because someone has abused something doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem--something we need to nail down. I think your concern really deserves another topic. If the mood strikes you, fire it up! I suppose it would help if it sparked from conversation, but I'm just getting over being riled up at you for dragging this topic into the realm of the over-analytical, and I don't have any thoughts on FOI, specifically.

I admit it did leave me wondering if that information SHOULD be available, but I didn't have an answer for that.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:19 pm

CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.

So what, the gun owners can shoot them? Or do something other than handle their distaste like the rational adults they aren't because they own guns in the first place?

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:33 pm

Are you channeling callmeslick? And you made the mistake of assuming that just because they were referred to as "gun owners", that he was talking about them using their guns for retribution. You see how that just worked?

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Are you channeling callmeslick?

Are you channeling CUDA?

See how that works?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:43 pm

Funny how quickly one can assign nefarious motives to legal gun owners, while seeing nothing suspicious in the interactive map.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:32 pm

Since you are all so god-damn outraged by maps, here are a bunch of maps that should really send you over the top with fury:

Map 1
Map 2
Map 3
Map 4
Map 5

Have a good night.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:09 am

vision wrote:
CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.
So what, the gun owners can shoot them? Or do something other than handle their distaste like the rational adults they aren't because they own guns in the first place?

I was thinking more about harassing phone calls, or the fear that people now know where they live, and the fact that they are being stigmatized just for living their lives working hard and doing nothing illegal. but since you made the stupid assumption they just because someone owns a gun that they would use it to shoot someone out of vengeance, because they wrote an article for a paper, just proves the whole point of the thread and the foolishness of the article. it was all about the motivation. it was about this news article telling people watch out a potential killer lives next door to you.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:37 am

vision wrote:Since you are all so god-damn outraged by maps, here are a bunch of maps that should really send you over the top with fury:

Map 1
Map 2
Map 3
Map 4
Map 5

Have a good night.

Funny thing vision, I didn't see the name of one person listed in your maps.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:06 am

I think vision using maps of famine and drought etc as a greater example illustrates his fear of that which he cant control. A Freudian slip of sorts. To him people with guns are just as scary and uncontrollable as the plague.

To vision, and many others, people+guns= a monolithic threat. He's afraid to peel back the layers of that group and examine the complex details within because he knows many of us point to the details as proof he is wrong. But his fear controls him so he remains ignorant.

As one of the millions of law abiding gun owners who never have and never will use it for murder I know his fear is irrational but I don't know how to cure him.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:38 am

Will Robinson wrote:As one of the millions of law abiding gun owners who never have and never will use it for murder I know his fear is irrational but I don't know how to cure him.

As a non-Gun owner I realize that it's an irrational fear. as much fear is
I understand that it's not the guns that will kill people. it's the person that pulls the trigger. if someone wants to go on a killing spree they will find a way to do it. be it with their bare hands, a Gun, or an airplane. they will most likely succeed.

so to quote an old Radio show..

"Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man? Only the shadow knows"

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:48 am

CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.

You got your wish:
offending paper's employees info published
Some interesting bits in there about just who makes up the list of gun permit holders, like the "...abused women who were under protective order and in hiding and they’re terribly afraid that now their names and addresses are all over the Internet and accessible through that map.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/b ... z2GGv33FBM

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:00 pm

CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.

And just what should the gun owners DO with that information? Go out and shoot them for their insolence? That'd work out real well I'll bet, and it might just make already gun-phobic people want even more gun laws put in place in reaction. We don't need any more reactionary thinking.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:"Stupid move" just doesn't say it, TC. Try criminally irresponsible. **** their excuses. That was so... terribly irresponsible, and the newspaper management should have been the final line of defense. I would be doing something about that **** if it happened around here.

The irony is in her attempt to shame or otherwise expose pistol owners to public harassment, she may very likely have struck a blow against those people without firearms.

And in case any of you are planning on defending this lady, consider that the paper could well have listed the numbers (by county, city, ...) without assigning a name and address to each one. The newspaper should be sued.

I'm not "defending" her actions, just trying to rationalize them.I seriously doubt that she was trying to shame gun owners. She was probably kowtowing to the whining of local parents, specifically, mothers with kids, who probably wanted to know who in their neighborhoods were gun owners. You obviously don't have a mother's emotional logic when it concerns the protection of their children. It can be a little crazy. Not that this knowledge would do them any good in the first place like you said. It would only cause idiot mothers, or even criminals, to go out and harass legitimate and responsible gun owners.

But you never know, do you? Who's going to be responsible and who's not. If the editor wanted to give a better metric for her readers, she should have indicated only those gun owners that also currently had an adolescent male(s) living in the same household with ready access to those guns. That would be far more informative. Besides, we no longer have any privacy. Just about everything can be found out about someone if you do a little research on the net. Their is so much public information out there that we don't even think about it until it comes back to haunt us.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:06 pm

tunnelcat wrote:
CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.
And just what should the gun owners DO with that information? Go out and shoot them for their insolence? That'd work out real well I'll bet, and it might just make already gun-phobic people want even more gun laws put in place in reaction. We don't need any more reactionary thinking.

way to knee jerk just like vision did.
commenting on a post without reading the rest of the following posts usually doesn't bode will for your stance.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:37 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I think vision using maps of famine and drought etc as a greater example illustrates his fear of that which he cant control. A Freudian slip of sorts. To him people with guns are just as scary and uncontrollable as the plague.

ROFL. Way to completely miss the point. Here, I'll spell it out for you: There are bigger problems in the world than this list, or even the whole gun rights argument. I don't own a gun and can't imagine a rational reason to own one under any circumstances.

@CUDA Harassing phone calls are a very mature way to handle this situation. That will really help win over public opinion on gun ownership. I'm glad you get your wish. Enjoy! hahaha.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:28 pm

vision wrote:@CUDA Harassing phone calls are a very mature way to handle this situation. That will really help win over public opinion on gun ownership. I'm glad you get your wish. Enjoy! hahaha.

and what exactly do you think the intent of the paper was by the printing of those addresses??

The act of printing them for everyone to see was harassment for those gun owners, but OBVIOUSLY you don't care.

and I cannot wait until one of those abused women sues them for the emotional duress that the paper put them under by reveling their addresses to their abusive spouses. but you OBVIOUSLY don't care about that either. so ENJOY!!!

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:48 pm

vision wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:I think vision using maps of famine and drought etc as a greater example illustrates his fear of that which he cant control. A Freudian slip of sorts. To him people with guns are just as scary and uncontrollable as the plague.
ROFL. Way to completely miss the point. Here, I'll spell it out for you: There are bigger problems in the world than this list, or even the whole gun rights argument. I don't own a gun and can't imagine a rational reason to own one under any circumstances.

.

I didn't miss the point you were hiding behind, I raised questions about your unfounded rationale for cowering there...

PS: just because you can't understand the need for something doesn't mean there is none. Every year thousands of Americans prove that your ignorance is no excuse for you being able to force them to become victims instead of defeating a violent threat!

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:19 pm

vision wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:I think vision using maps of famine and drought etc as a greater example illustrates his fear of that which he cant control. A Freudian slip of sorts. To him people with guns are just as scary and uncontrollable as the plague.
ROFL. Way to completely miss the point. Here, I'll spell it out for you: There are bigger problems in the world than this list, or even the whole gun rights argument. I don't own a gun and can't imagine a rational reason to own one under any circumstances.

@CUDA Harassing phone calls are a very mature way to handle this situation. That will really help win over public opinion on gun ownership. I'm glad you get your wish. Enjoy! hahaha.

So any time you post anything at all, Vision, I'll just reply that there are bigger and more important things than your skewed views on issues. In fact, we should completely ignore you from now on.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:31 pm

CUDA wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:
CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.
And just what should the gun owners DO with that information? Go out and shoot them for their insolence? That'd work out real well I'll bet, and it might just make already gun-phobic people want even more gun laws put in place in reaction. We don't need any more reactionary thinking.
way to knee jerk just like vision did.
commenting on a post without reading the rest of the following posts usually doesn't bode will for your stance.

There! I forgot to add those to the end of my post.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:32 pm

You guys all watch too many detective shows.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:42 pm

I’m trying to visualize all the people running to this particular woman, begging her to post a map of gun permit owners, so they can know where they are.

And if they did, any responsible person would have simply told them how to get the info.

Take two cups of blinders, and call me in the morning.

vision wrote:Here, I'll spell it out for you: There are bigger problems in the world than this list, or even the whole gun rights argument

Tell that to the ★■◆● who made the map.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:51 pm

vision wrote:
ROFL. Way to completely miss the point. Here, I'll spell it out for you: There are bigger problems in the world than this list, or even the whole gun rights argument.

Tell that to the people who have their names and addresses pasted all over the internet

vision wrote:I don't own a gun and can't imagine a rational reason to own one under any circumstances.

I guess the shooting events at the Olympics are beyond your imagination:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_a ... r_Olympics

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:56 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
CUDA wrote:Lets make an interactive map with the addresses and phone #'s of the editors and the person who wrote the story for the newspaper. I wonder how many of those gun owners would like to have that information.
You got your wish:
offending paper's employees info published
Some interesting bits in there about just who makes up the list of gun permit holders, like the "...abused women who were under protective order and in hiding and they’re terribly afraid that now their names and addresses are all over the Internet and accessible through that map.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/b ... z2GGv33FBM

Now now Will. I guess you didn't follow this last election as the Libs were making a big deal of catering to the women voters. As you can see they don't really care if women live or die as long as liberal anti gun rags print nice things about Obama.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:20 pm

Sorry, I didn't know you were all Olympic level marksmen. I'm sure all the legitimate gun owners in the US just want to shoot targets all day. It's all the rage from what I hear, totally taking the country by storm. Shooting ranges are about as popular as nail salons these days.

Also, hurray guns!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:59 pm

vision wrote:Sorry, I didn't know you were all Olympic level marksmen. I'm sure all the legitimate gun owners in the US just want to shoot targets all day. It's all the rage from what I hear, totally taking the country by storm. Shooting ranges are about as popular as nail salons these days.

Also, hurray guns!

Do you want to know what a complete sounding idiot you are. Someday why don't you look up the national trap shooting event and see how many people attend and participate. I went to one and the range is fully a mile long with shooting stations every 50 feet. All of them have contestants.

Try looking up Camp Perry and find out how many participate there.

Then look up sporting clay association. After awhile you will realize just how poorly informed you really are.