The fools of the left...

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:12 pm

Honestly, unless a justice dies or decides to retire (unlikely right now), I don't worry too much about it. It's doubtful any real legislation concerning gun control will even be heard right now. Only person that is keeping that ball rolling is Piers. I'd gladly sign that petition to deport that guy. Cobgobbler (did I just say that?) lol, is right though. One day we will look back and realize our 2nd amendment rights were completely undermined. It's obvious to me, especially under the atmosphere at the time of the Bill of Rights writing and other supporting documents that the intent of the 2nd amendment was intended to give the people recourse should the government become oppressive, but that's a moot point now. Anyone that thinks they can beat the technology the government owns now is seriously delusional. I would still worry about armed mobs of thugs roaming the street during a time of crisis, but not to overthrow the government. You gotta do that from within now

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:45 pm

I think both left and right can agree that the move described in the OP was simply stupid. No political affiliation necessary.
And if there are differing opinions on the degree of its stupidity, they probably have nothing to do with political stripe either.

Honestly I believe the only objective source for politically charged news is a centrist one. In my opinion Fox News is definitely not that.

CobGobbler · Post by **CobGobbler** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:09 pm

Yes you said it right flip.

If anyone here thinks their little arsenal of weapons would do anything against the government, why don't they go ask David Koresh or those guys at Ruby Ridge how they fared when the govt decided to act?

Our 'freedom' exists at the pleasure of the United States Govt. Do any of you really believe they are even the slightest bit worried about some small Michigan militia guys or some backwoods yokels in Georgia? Hell no. If they wanted to steamroll us they could do it at any time and no court or lawyer can stop an Abrams tank or a jdam.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:15 pm

I actually think those militia's are the ones who proliferate this sense of paranoia and suspicion. Makes you wonder if they have ever voted or done anything civic minded in their whole lives. The government is made up of people we elect from our own communities, then after we send them there we act like they are some kind of aliens. LOL, it's gonna end a self fulfilled apocalypse eventually because of those guys.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 am

CobGobbler wrote:?...
Our 'freedom' exists at the pleasure of the United States Govt. ...
... If they wanted to steamroll us they could do it at any time and no court or lawyer can stop an Abrams tank or a jdam.

Another way to see it is, if our freedom is taken away niether the US Gov. nor America, will exist anymore either. Because what separates the US Gov. from any old tyrant who steamrolls his people is the doctrine of the Constitution. If we let reactionary, short sighted and/or greedy power hungry fools dissect and toss out pieces of that body of principles then there will be no need to steamroll us, we will have killed ourselves.

As for the mismatch and overwhelming power of the US Army versus 50 or 100 million citizens armed with rifles, pistols and whatever destructive devices they can cobble together. Or an unarmed population.
It is the difference between a nice clean coup where the tyrant suddenly owns the place as he found it or a battle like Afgahnastan that never really ends.

Taking over a body of helpless unarmed people is appealing to cowards. Americans wont be willing to go down like that. Taking America isnt the kind of thing a selfish coward will even try to accomplish precisely because If you want to steamroll us you have to be willing to pay a terrible price.
So don't tell me I need to be some cowards ★■◆● because you can't figure out how to keep your children from growing up thugs or recognize that crazy isn't caused by an inanimate object. You are going to need a much better reason to get most of us to lay down.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:39 am

There are better ways to think right now though. I don't know about where you live, but here I know the mayor of Villa Rica and the Mayor of Carrollton. They are even friends on my Facebook. Well, those guys are personal friends of the Clinton's, the Governor, many Congressmen.....etc. They are all just people too. I have found that you can influence your local politicians with soundness and it will carry right to the top. They all know each other in some form or another. I think if people would just get involved locally and in a productive manner, that voice and spirit eventually will sound right in the halls of Congress and the Presidents ear.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:46 am

returning to the points I was misread on earlier, regarding people out there starting to suspect the value of the 2nd, I'm glad flip brought up Piers Morgan.
That interview he had the other night that has gone near-viral with the radio host(Alex somebody?) is a perfect example of what I was trying to convey. If enough middle class suburban moms see that loon, eyes bugged out and looking for all the world to be mentally unstable, bragging about the 50 guns he owns, they are going to step back and go, "wait a minute.....". He, as a gun rights advocate did far more damage to the cause of responsible gun ownership than anyone on the 'anti' side ever could. The demographics of this nation have changed. Far more people live in cities and suburbs, which are not the traditional strength of the gun lobby. Women control the voting outcomes more than ever. Thus, every time some intemperate loon starts ranting about a 'new revolution', and irrationally defends access beyond a reasonable level to high-powered firearms, THEN the 2nd Amendment gets weakened a little bit. In a related example, the NRA yesterday objected to a gun buyback program that was run in Tucson(coincided with the Giffords shooting anniversary). What did they object to? That the guns the cops bought were to be destroyed. The NRA wants them sold to the public. THAT is exactly the sort of thing that will have a negative resonance with the public as a whole, and, as pointed out above, the public as a whole elects representatives that can ultimately affect this whole issue.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:48 am

flip wrote:There are better ways to think right now though. I don't know about where you live, but here I know the mayor of Villa Rica and the Mayor of Carrollton. They are even friends on my Facebook. Well, those guys are personal friends of the Clinton's, the Governor, many Congressmen.....etc. They are all just people too. I have found that you can influence your local politicians with soundness and it will carry right to the top. They all know each other in some form or another. I think if people would just get involved locally and in a productive manner, that voice and spirit eventually will sound right in the halls of Congress and the Presidents ear.

very good, Flip!! That is just the sort of networking and working within the system I have been advocating for here. Whether or not I agree with all of your positions makes no difference, this is just a great example of how our system is designed to work.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:02 am

He, as a gun rights advocate did far more damage to the cause of responsible gun ownership than anyone on the 'anti' side ever could.

That's exactly what I have against Piers though, among others things. He put that nut on TV to use him as representative of the pro-gun lobby, when actually he is a very fringe element. Altogether dishonest and irresponsible to give that guy a national voice to influence anyone. I found it altogether dishonest, cunning and manipulative. That's just the point I was trying to make in my previous post. It's not a matter of agreeing on a certain issue. It's a matter of creating a positive and peaceful atmosphere. One in which everyone can agree to disagree but still respect the others opinion and try reach decisions that everyone can be happy with. Not some atmosphere of impending war.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:17 am

callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:still waiting for Woody to grow a pair and address his bald-faced lie above........
Actually I was being kind. What you really want is for the 2nd amendment to be repealed and no one to be able to protect them selves. You already stated how anyone who chooses to carry a firearm is both fearful and a coward and how good looks and charm will save you from a bad guy. You live in a fantasy world slick. Carrying a cell phone on your hip is not the personal protection you think it is.
You're a liar. I never said anything close, and now you're dancing. Grow a pair, and admit you made something up. Please, feel free to locate where I ever suggested a limit on firearm caliber for self-protection or for any reason whatsoever. Please, show where I said I WANTED the 2nd Amendment to be repealed. Please, show where I ever suggested that taking guns from current, legal owners was an idea I supported. Please, show where I even said I carry a cell phone most of the time, or suggested 'good looks and charm'(I mentioned WITS, something you are clearly short of). I could go on, but that should be enough of your blatant LIES on this board to atone for at the moment. But, then again, you don't have the stones to cop to it, do you, little fella?

Your sad and emotionally angst ridden replies paint you as a prime example of why people like you should not be allowed access to firearms.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:28 am

flip wrote:
He, as a gun rights advocate did far more damage to the cause of responsible gun ownership than anyone on the 'anti' side ever could.
That's exactly what I have against Piers though, among others things. He put that nut on TV to use him as representative of the pro-gun lobby, when actually he is a very fringe element. Altogether dishonest and irresponsible to give that guy a national voice to influence anyone. I found it altogether dishonest, cunning and manipulative. That's just the point I was trying to make in my previous post. It's not a matter of agreeing on a certain issue. It's a matter of creating a positive and peaceful atmosphere. One in which everyone can agree to disagree but still respect the others opinion and try reach decisions that everyone can be happy with. Not some atmosphere of impending war.

as you might note, I saw your other point and congratulated you on it. I think what Morgan did was simply journalism at it's simplest. He has been hosting all points of view, and has repeatedly invited 'reasonable' NRA spokepersons, yet they refuse. If ALL that he put on there were the extremists, I'd agree with you, but putting on the whole range of views, including the extremes from all sides, seems fair enough to me.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:30 am

woodchip wrote:Your sad and emotionally angst ridden replies paint you as a prime example of why people like you should not be allowed access to firearms.

and what does your pathetic use of bald-faced lies make you an example of? I'd say the answer is obvious......

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:42 am

CobGobbler wrote:Yes you said it right flip.

If anyone here thinks their little arsenal of weapons would do anything against the government, why don't they go ask David Koresh or those guys at Ruby Ridge how they fared when the govt decided to act?

Our 'freedom' exists at the pleasure of the United States Govt. Do any of you really believe they are even the slightest bit worried about some small Michigan militia guys or some backwoods yokels in Georgia? Hell no. If they wanted to steamroll us they could do it at any time and no court or lawyer can stop an Abrams tank or a jdam.

You take a few examples where a few individuals were surrounded and killed as proof positive that armed insurrection will not work. Just ask Moammar Khadafy (oh wait...he's dead) or Bashar Assad what they think about people with a small arsenal can do. If you think when it reaches the point that the govt. is using tanks and bombs against it's citizens that somehow it is all over, you are sadly mistaken. It has been shown over and over again that as a govt. uses more and more force, more and more people join the rebellion. Just wait until the first pictures of the corpses and burned bodies of American babies caused by a jdam or tank round hit the internet and international news outlets. at that point you will find segments of the military joining the rebellion.

So keep thinking that the rebellion will be by some crackpot militia guys. It won't. The govt. knows this and even though there is talk of Obama using a executive order to somehow ban firearms, it won't happen precisely because even the libs understand what a tipping point is. So they will continue to mouth inanities and in the end pass some meaningless restrictions. More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:46 am

loony talk like the above about 'revolutions' and suggesting gun toting citizens fighting the government(by the way, Cob is dead-on, the government didn't really break into a rhetorical sweat crushing the examples he gave) will eventually tip the balance Woody refers to. One can see it happening, and it preceded the Newtown thing. One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:02 am

callmeslick wrote:loony talk like the above about 'revolutions' and suggesting gun toting citizens fighting the government(by the way, Cob is dead-on, the government didn't really break into a rhetorical sweat crushing the examples he gave) will eventually tip the balance Woody refers to.

Yeah the FBI didn't break into a sweat:

"FBI snipers took their positions around the Weaver cabin a few minutes after 5 p.m. on Aug. 22. Within an hour, every adult in the cabin was either dead or severely wounded -- even though they had not fired a shot at any FBI agent.

Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and 16-year-old Sara Weaver stepped out of the cabin a few minutes before 6 p.m. to go to the shed where Sammy's body lay. FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shot Randy Weaver in the back. As Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and Sara Weaver struggled to get back into the cabin, Vicki Weaver stood in the cabin doorway holding a baby. Agent Horiuchi fired again; his bullet passed through a window in the door, hit Vicki Weaver in the head, killing her instantly, and then hit Mr. Harris in the chest."

Is this another of your cheering moments slick? A FBI sniper shooting a mother in the head while she is holding her baby? And you compare this action as akin to the govt controlling a million armed citizens rising up in revolt. Dream on little man.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:08 am

callmeslick wrote:loony talk like the above about 'revolutions' and suggesting gun toting citizens fighting the government(by the way, Cob is dead-on, the government didn't really break into a rhetorical sweat crushing the examples he gave) will eventually tip the balance Woody refers to. One can see it happening, and it preceded the Newtown thing. One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.

Just as the current administration has caused gun sales to break all records they also have caused the NRA to become more relevant again by talking out of both sides of their mouth regarding gun confiscation. If they try to circumvent the individuals right you will see the NRA become quite effective. I let my membership lapse 20+ years ago because they were too unreasonable....yesterday I considered sending them a couple hundred dollars because they now seem to be the best chance we gun owners have.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:10 am

woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:loony talk like the above about 'revolutions' and suggesting gun toting citizens fighting the government(by the way, Cob is dead-on, the government didn't really break into a rhetorical sweat crushing the examples he gave) will eventually tip the balance Woody refers to.
Yeah the FBI didn't break into a sweat:

"FBI snipers took their positions around the Weaver cabin a few minutes after 5 p.m. on Aug. 22. Within an hour, every adult in the cabin was either dead or severely wounded -- even though they had not fired a shot at any FBI agent.

Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and 16-year-old Sara Weaver stepped out of the cabin a few minutes before 6 p.m. to go to the shed where Sammy's body lay. FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shot Randy Weaver in the back. As Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and Sara Weaver struggled to get back into the cabin, Vicki Weaver stood in the cabin doorway holding a baby. Agent Horiuchi fired again; his bullet passed through a window in the door, hit Vicki Weaver in the head, killing her instantly, and then hit Mr. Harris in the chest."

Is this another of your cheering moments slick? A FBI sniper shooting a mother in the head while she is holding her baby? And you compare this action as akin to the govt controlling a million armed citizens rising up in revolt. Dream on little man.

hardly cheering anything, woody, just stating the obvious. The govt has far more firepower and weaponry at its disposal that was remotely close to being used at Ruby Ridge or Waco. That's all I'm saying, although I have very little sympathy for people thumbing their noses at the government like those loons did. We are a nation of laws, and nothing gave them the right to behave as they did. If you think some sort of major uprising has the slightest chance of success, it is you who is dreaming.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:12 am

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:loony talk like the above about 'revolutions' and suggesting gun toting citizens fighting the government(by the way, Cob is dead-on, the government didn't really break into a rhetorical sweat crushing the examples he gave) will eventually tip the balance Woody refers to. One can see it happening, and it preceded the Newtown thing. One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.
Just as the current administration has caused gun sales to break all records they also have caused the NRA to become more relevant again by talking out of both sides of their mouth regarding gun confiscation. If they try to circumvent the individuals right you will see the NRA become quite effective. I let my membership lapse 20+ years ago because they were too unreasonable....yesterday I considered sending them a couple hundred dollars because they now seem to be the best chance we gun owners have.

and, my Dad and I have agreed, after a brief meeting to discuss the matter last weekend, to help fund Gabby Giffords PAC. Isn't political giving wonderful!

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:21 am

this is the sort of data that is finally starting to sink in on the American citizenry. And, bear in mind, as recent election data has shown, that citizenry is becoming far less rural, far less angry white men and somewhat more conscious of facts such as these:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... peers?lite

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:54 am

The problem I have with that Morgan character is the same problem I have with most anti-gun talking heads. They always portray the pro-gun side as "the gun culture", loons like Alex Jones and worse and the anti-gun side as weeping mothers of recently slain children and 'all of us reasonable people who feel their pain and want an end to it'.

The gun culture is then immediately highlighted as 'the reason' gang bangers are murdering each other at a rate of 20 times above the average. The gun culture is immediately highlighted as the cause for deranged shooters who kill innocent children. The anti- gun talking heads present the argument that if not for the 'gun culture' we wouldn't have these problems. Nothing could be further from the truth!

If you magically removed all guns from the earth overnight by the end of the week the thugs and crazies will have rearmed themselves with the best weapons available. That is the way the real world works.

Guns have always had a substantial presence in American culture. That presence is made up of tens of millions of hunters, millions of sport shooters of countless varieties, collectors of many types and periods, family heirlooms passed down, squirt guns and BB guns and pellet guns and potato guns. And millions of everyday people with legitimate self defense concerns...120,000 times a year people use guns lawfully and successfully to ward of a violent attacker, etc etc.

That is the real 'gun culture' in America and it has no more connection to the cause of gang bangers and crazies shooting innocents than Morgan and all the other anti-gun talking heads do!

The anti-gunner talking heads creation and marketing of the 'evil gun culture' enemy is a propaganda tactic.
It is the same thing as saying 'Republicans want to poison the water and starve school children'. It is the result of letting political expediency define the debate.

Some how that kind of rhetorical tactic (euphemism for blatent lie), has become completely acceptable in political campaigns and now that same kind of propaganda is accepted as "journalism"! Oh how far they have fallen in that industry. They see how easy it is to steer voters to accept complete poseurs with it so why not use those same tactics to shape public opinion with their 'reporting'?!?

It is very difficult for any intelligent gun owner to accept the argument that we just need to calmly state our case and everyone will come together in a moment of logical problem solving when we are on the recieving end of a decades long illogical and agenda driven campaign to portray all gun owners as a monolithic gang of paranoid loonies!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:59 am

callmeslick wrote:this is the sort of data that is finally starting to sink in on the American citizenry. And, bear in mind, as recent election data has shown, that citizenry is becoming far less rural, far less angry white men and somewhat more conscious of facts such as these:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01 ... peers?lite

You do realize that homicides have been going down since 1971? Even during the assault weapons ban era, our homicide rate is lower today than what is was during the ban?

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:18 am

The whole notion of US Army vs gun owners was raised by cobgobbler in the context of a question he asked. To paraphrase, he asked, 'what the heck are a bunch of gun owners going to do against the army if the government wants to take the guns? You can't beat tanks and planes with rifles....'

Well the question is flawed because you also can't confiscate the citizens weapons using tanks and planes. You have to locate the offenders and send some people to that location to secure the target or contraband.
So it quickly becomes a battle against insurgents. You can bomb Atlanta and Dallas and every other population concentration if you want but you won't have taken a single gun nor will you have won the hearts and minds of anyone left alive, or anyone observing as Woody pointed out.

300 million guns to locate and sieze and thanks to Obama the factories are on up to a year back order...churning out new weapons daily as if it was 1942 and we were on the way to fight the Germans all over again!

So long before it ever gets to US troops seizing American towns and searching for guns like nazis looking for Jews you will have Governors of southern states declaring the order to be unconstitutional and declaring a state of emergency. Whether it be their sense of patriotic duty or a power grab they will draw the line in the sand very quickly.
The Governors will command Sheriffs departments, police departments, state police, etc etc and they will be the authority around those towns that are filled with now very angry armed citizens. There wont be a call to turn in your arms, it will be a Call to Arms!

The weapons and gear in state national guard armory will be the Governors property. Military bases in those states may fall under control of Governors....if not fall they will become under siege and no longer an asset to the Feds.

If the stand off holds for any length of time you will see some strange alliances formed. Cuba starts resupplying the south via Florida.....Texas and Mexico making some arrangements hmmmm....

Another thing, a wildcard, the percentage of American military, who all swore an oath, not to the president, but to the Constitution will have to decide if they are going to follow the order to kill their fellow gun owners. A majority of those troops are gun owners too and they have their own private weapons 'back home'....back home is under attack?!?

You will see how a civil war is started long before you will see how the US Army can "steamroll" a bunch gun culture loonies.
And that is exactly why you won't see the army steamroll anyone over the 2nd amendment. And it is the 'real' culture of America that makes that line in the sand inevitable.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:17 am

callmeslick wrote:...
One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.

I don't know if that math is the only math politicians will look at concerning the NRA... the NRA polling up, even post Newtown massacre...gun violence trending downward...need for gun control polling downward...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:12 pm

Will Robinson wrote:It is very difficult for any intelligent gun owner to accept the argument that we just need to calmly state our case and everyone will come together in a moment of logical problem solving when we are on the recieving end of a decades long illogical and agenda driven campaign to portray all gun owners as a monolithic gang of paranoid loonies!

actually, the best antidote to getting branded as a bunch of crazy loons IS exactly that: calmly state your case, and reject loudly and publicly those folks who harm your cause with talk of revolution, talk about arming teachers, and other radical crap. I see no problem with gun ownership, albeit with a FAR longer and more thorough background check period, ZERO tolerance for exchange of weaponry outside those check systems and legal responsibility for storage and safety imposed upon the gun owners.
Most gun owners I know(and I know a lot of them) are just fine with every one of those caveats. If more of them came forward and repudiated the NRA(who really speaks for gun makers, not owners) and the lone-wolf loons, you would see a coming together that would likely result in logical problem solving. Unfortunately public discourse in 2013 is short on such ration exchange, and, as you note, the news business doesn't thrive on 'calm and logical'.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...
One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.
I don't know if that math is the only math politicians will look at concerning the NRA... the NRA polling up, even post Newtown massacre...gun violence trending downward...need for gun control polling downward...

out of date numbers.....those 52% support figures are now down to 42%, thanks in large part to the LaPierre presentation(your data pool ended the day of the speech). A ten percent drop in two weeks indicates precisely the point I was making. People are starting to stop and reconsider.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:49 pm

woodchip wrote:More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.

So because a bunch of nutjobs who masturbate over their wang compensators are afraid of the ebil gub'mint taking their guns, and so have responded to the Newtown shooting in the most counter-productive way possible, that's somehow Obama's fault too?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:34 pm

callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...
One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.
I don't know if that math is the only math politicians will look at concerning the NRA... the NRA polling up, even post Newtown massacre...gun violence trending downward...need for gun control polling downward...
out of date numbers.....those 52% support figures are now down to 42%, thanks in large part to the LaPierre presentation(your data pool ended the day of the speech). A ten percent drop in two weeks indicates precisely the point I was making. People are starting to stop and reconsider.

Wow comrade, just where do you get your info? Off bazooka bubble gum cartoons?:

"NRA Sees Huge Spike in Membership After Sandy Hook Massacre; Numbers Said to ‘Dwarf Past Trends’"

"The National Rifle Association's paying member ranks have grown by 100,000 in the wake of the December school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the organization told Politico on Thursday."

So riddle me this Bat ★■◆●, If membership increases how do the percentages decline?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Top Gun wrote:
woodchip wrote:More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.
So because a bunch of nutjobs who masturbate over their wang compensators are afraid of the ebil gub'mint taking their guns, and so have responded to the Newtown shooting in the most counter-productive way possible, that's somehow Obama's fault too?

Well if the wang in charge didn't go off spouting "Gun Control" at the top of his lungs, perhaps the nut-jobs would not of come out shouting at the top of their lungs also.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Top Gun wrote:
woodchip wrote:More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.
So because a bunch of nutjobs who masturbate over their wang compensators are afraid of the ebil gub'mint taking their guns, and so have responded to the Newtown shooting in the most counter-productive way possible, that's somehow Obama's fault too?

Of course it is. And, of course, it's also the fault of all those little kids having the nerve to get killed, too. Damned alarmists!

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:40 pm

woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...
One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.
I don't know if that math is the only math politicians will look at concerning the NRA... the NRA polling up, even post Newtown massacre...gun violence trending downward...need for gun control polling downward...
out of date numbers.....those 52% support figures are now down to 42%, thanks in large part to the LaPierre presentation(your data pool ended the day of the speech). A ten percent drop in two weeks indicates precisely the point I was making. People are starting to stop and reconsider.
Wow comrade, just where do you get your info? Off bazooka bubble gum cartoons?:

"NRA Sees Huge Spike in Membership After Sandy Hook Massacre; Numbers Said to ‘Dwarf Past Trends’"

"The National Rifle Association's paying member ranks have grown by 100,000 in the wake of the December school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the organization told Politico on Thursday."

So riddle me this Bat ****, If membership increases how do the percentages decline?

logic isn't your friend, huh? Let's see, a hundred thousand people paid their dues, out of a population of, how many??

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:42 pm

let's start with this, Woody:
"Two surveys conducted by Public Policy Polling three weeks apart - one days after the elementary school massacre, and the other between Jan. 3 and 6 - show support from the gun advocacy organization dropped from 48 percent to 42 percent, while negative views of the group increased from 41 percent to 45 percent."

source: Newsmax, longer article

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:51 pm

All I know is NO ONE around where I live is advocating gun control. Down to the nurses and school teachers. Would be alot more productive if everyone was talking about building community and working together to, if not prevent mass shootings, at least to have a common sense defense strategy. That conversation is gonna be near impossible with loons like Piers Morgan constantly confronting everyone with his supposed end all solution.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:52 pm

callmeslick wrote:
woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...
One TV host last night pointed out the NRA success rate in the 2012 elections: 0.8%. In other words, 99.2% of their campaign cash went into campaigns that lost. It won't take long for politicians to see that math.
I don't know if that math is the only math politicians will look at concerning the NRA... the NRA polling up, even post Newtown massacre...gun violence trending downward...need for gun control polling downward...
out of date numbers.....those 52% support figures are now down to 42%, thanks in large part to the LaPierre presentation(your data pool ended the day of the speech). A ten percent drop in two weeks indicates precisely the point I was making. People are starting to stop and reconsider.
Wow comrade, just where do you get your info? Off bazooka bubble gum cartoons?:

"NRA Sees Huge Spike in Membership After Sandy Hook Massacre; Numbers Said to ‘Dwarf Past Trends’"

"The National Rifle Association's paying member ranks have grown by 100,000 in the wake of the December school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the organization told Politico on Thursday."

So riddle me this Bat ****, If membership increases how do the percentages decline?
logic isn't your friend, huh? Let's see, a hundred thousand people paid their dues, out of a population of, how many??

Let me 'splain it so even you understand,that 100k figure is extra to what they already had. Ask any trend watcher, people who actually shell out money to a oranization represent a far larger group who may not have the money to pay for membership. Good thing Obama has kept the bad economy going or there would be even more people subscribing.

While your assertion that among the general population may or may not be true, it's the 100 million a year the NRA rakes in is a amount that even you may appreciate.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:57 pm

flip wrote:All I know is NO ONE around where I live is advocating gun control. Down to the nurses and school teachers. Would be alot more productive if everyone was talking about building community and working together to, if not prevent mass shootings, at least to have a common sense defense strategy. That conversation is gonna be near impossible with loons like Piers Morgan constantly confronting everyone with his supposed end all solution.

have you even WATCHED Morgan? Because I have, and have no clue what you're talking about. By contrast, on the public opinion front, back where I used to live, in Central PA, a gun market(annual event) drew picketers last weekend. Would've never thought that possible, as that is gun country.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:59 pm

woodchip wrote:While your assertion that among the general population may or may not be true, it's the 100 million a year the NRA rakes in is a amount that even you may appreciate.

as I stated above, in the last election, they had exactly 0.83% success rate with their vaunted money. It isn't the money, it's what success it garners. And, a hundred thousand new loons(and I am sure they were far from all New members) doesn't make a dent in a nation where 45 Million women voted in the last election. Why is that significant? Because Mothers are the group that will beat the NRA to a well-deserved political death.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:12 pm

I watch that guy from time to time, don't care for him too much. Lol, and maybe you should travel to the South, we are kinda like that line from Roadhouse "I want you to be nice until it's time not to be nice." You really have no idea I don't think but we say yes maam and yes sir not because we are subservient, but because we expect a certain respect in return. Piers is doing nothing to enable a productive conversation on the gun issue. Nothing. It's been said in this thread but I don't see him any different in spirit as I do the paranoid. They are doing exactly the same thing, only difference is, Piers is a coward about how he does it

. It's obvious his whole goal is to relieve people of weapons he deems dangerous and unnecessary. It's a very short-sighted and arrogant view he has. Unless you confiscate every single weapon in America, the criminal and deranged will still find a way to access one and all you have really done is make criminals of law-abiding citizens. It's plain stupidity to think that banning weapons will accomplish anything and that whole conversation does nothing but prevent an intelligent one and just serves to inflame the loons on both sides of the issue, Chicken-headed Piers included.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:16 pm

callmeslick wrote:
flip wrote:All I know is NO ONE around where I live is advocating gun control. Down to the nurses and school teachers. Would be alot more productive if everyone was talking about building community and working together to, if not prevent mass shootings, at least to have a common sense defense strategy. That conversation is gonna be near impossible with loons like Piers Morgan constantly confronting everyone with his supposed end all solution.
have you even WATCHED Morgan? Because I have, and have no clue what you're talking about. By contrast, on the public opinion front, back where I used to live, in Central PA, a gun market(annual event) drew picketers last weekend. Would've never thought that possible, as that is gun country.

Picketers or labor union thugs brought in and paid to pose as protesters, as they have been employed numerous times in the recent past by the Obama administration/campaign every time the dems want to shape public opinion on an issue they want elevated? Remember the Obama phone lady and all her supposed friends protesting?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:24 pm

callmeslick wrote:
Top Gun wrote:
woodchip wrote:More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.
So because a bunch of nutjobs who masturbate over their wang compensators are afraid of the ebil gub'mint taking their guns, and so have responded to the Newtown shooting in the most counter-productive way possible, that's somehow Obama's fault too?
Of course it is. And, of course, it's also the fault of all those little kids having the nerve to get killed, too. Damned alarmists!

Is this an example of how you will carry out problem solving in a calm rational way if we take your advice and respectfully come to share our concerns that your side is fomenting hateful propaganda about us?!?
You jump to join in topguns stupid hateful hyperbole and inflame the discourse like a trained agitator. Lol! Way to show your true colors and prove my point slick.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:53 pm

flip wrote:I watch that guy from time to time, don't care for him too much. Lol, and maybe you should travel to the South, we are kinda like that line from Roadhouse "I want you to be nice until it's time not to be nice." You really have no idea I don't think but we say yes maam and yes sir not because we are subservient, but because we expect a certain respect in return.

not sure you are aware, but I was born in the South, partially raised in the South, and my family has ties to Virginia going back over 300 years. I get the South, trust me. Some of my closest friends on the planet live in places like Missisippi, Louisiana, Georgia and North Carolina as well as VA.
As for Piers Morgan, all he reflects, I suspect, is the tendency in for-profit, round the clock news to milk the profit out of controversy. I will bet that Piers' ratings are comparatively high now, so he keeps playing the gun issue for all he can generate in ad revenue. Fox is no different, nor are any of the others.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:55 pm

woodchip wrote:
Top Gun wrote:
woodchip wrote:More telling is since this conversation began, I ask you Cob, how many AR-15's have been sold? How many high capacity magazines? In the end all the anti gun talk has done has been to put millions more of the very guns they want to ban into the public hands. Nice job.
So because a bunch of nutjobs who masturbate over their wang compensators are afraid of the ebil gub'mint taking their guns, and so have responded to the Newtown shooting in the most counter-productive way possible, that's somehow Obama's fault too?
Well if the wang in charge didn't go off spouting "Gun Control" at the top of his lungs, perhaps the nut-jobs would not of come out shouting at the top of their lungs also.

Except that gun control is a sane proposition, whereas people who ran out and started hoarding AR-15s are not.