when you're in a hole, best to stop digging

[callmeslick]

most of us understand that advice we got as kids.....
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... =obnetwork

[Top Gun]

Hoo boy.

And I mean I understand the gist of what he's trying to say, and it's at least a tad saner than the earlier comments, but holy ★■◆● dude how have you not learned the lesson by now?

[callmeslick]

my point, exactly.

[Sergeant Thorne]

So he wasn't just making ★■◆● up, but he was mistaken. That's not called "partly right", last I checked.

[Will Robinson]

This wasn't Akin talking this time, it was someone else talking about what Akin said and their guess as to what Akin was trying to convey. If you read the article closely you see the author changed the chronology of the commentary so that he could open with the premise of 'Look, another republican says the same thing' but actually the other republican began his answer to a question by telling his audience that Akin and Murdoch hurt themselves and their party by what they said. He then went on to say he understood the science behind what Akin was trying to convey with the comment, and it was partially correct, etc. He was merely giving context to Akin's screw up. In the part that NBC didn't put in he refers to Akin's comments as "saying stupid things"...'that he doesn't defend' but that part didn't make the article though.
But the way the headline is written, and the way the author changed the order of what the man said he led the reader to infer that which slick and top gun has taken from it...the 'here they go again'...

So I don't get the "when you're in a hole..." comment. This is a different speaker and he isn't trying promote the same philosophy re: abortion. He's at least smart enough to not go down that road. Your title should be 'Lets see if we can edit an observers off the cuff comments on the event and make it seem like it he did it too'.
Maybe you could change the title to..'Hey look, another dumbass repub walked too close to the Akin hole...kick him in and we'll ask him on camera why he went in the hole!'

Reading the full reporting of the guys comments in the marrietta daily journal and especially listening to the recording of it he doesn't come off as nearly the loon slick is implying he is or that the NBC author managed to make him out to be with that fine piece of selective 'journalism'...

[Top Gun]

But the way the headline is written, and the way the author changed the order of what the man said he led the reader to infer that which slick and top gun has taken from it...the 'here they go again'...

I've read the full quote by him, in its proper context. It's still an asinine thing to say, especially given the continued negative vibes from the prior comments. Any Republican hopeful with common sense should be staying as far away from the entire subject of rape as humanly possible at the moment.

[woodchip]

Sounds like another Zimmerman story where the newsy's selectively edited out the important parts

[callmeslick]

uh, not really, and TopGun got the key point I had in posting this: When are these folks going to learn that politicians spouting off about rape and pregnancy is a political disaster waiting to happen? That the phenomenon seems isolated in the GOP camp, this is just further evidence of that march to self-destruction I mentioned in another thread. As TG pointed out, it's easy to jump to, and read, the entire quote, with utterly no editorial embellishment needed.

[Will Robinson]

You have to listen to the tape recording to hear his complete comments and to hear it in his voice to get a feel for emphasis etc.

Without listening to it you are left to the mercy of the integrity of a NBC employee....
For me the motives and practices of the alleged journalist is the only thing i find noteworthy. What the guy actually said is pretty darn innocuous.
If you consider everything he said that day you would think his comments regarding gun control would have been the focus of a journalist considering that is on the forefront of most news outlets today and he gave some moderate views for a southern republican but the 'editorial' decision shows NBC looking to harvest a different fruit.

As for Repubs and whether they should dare to talk about rape...I don't care about their collective political fate any more than the Dems so if you are a cheerleader for one of those despicable teams then by all means invest yourselves accordingly.

[callmeslick]

believe it or not, my perspective, Will is this: It is NOT a good thing for one party(either party) to self-obliterate. Then, in a few short years, you are left with a single party of entrenched power, and to my mind, that isn't a good thing. Right now, here in Delaware, that is what we have. Where we long had two viable parties, the GOP has become an electoral joke, in the state that produced Republican leaders like Bill Roth, Caleb Boggs, Pete DuPont and Mike Castle. Now the GOP can't win an election, statewide, for even minor posts. Ultimately, I am sure this will lead to excess power in the hands of one unquestioned party. Frankly, I'd long for a return of the GOP of my youth, which held to the principles of balanced budgets, sensible long-term planning, avoided International involvement whenever possible and stayed the hell out of people's personal morality. But, that's just me......

[Tunnelcat]

believe it or not, my perspective, Will is this: It is NOT a good thing for one party(either party) to self-obliterate. Then, in a few short years, you are left with a single party of entrenched power, and to my mind, that isn't a good thing. Right now, here in Delaware, that is what we have. Where we long had two viable parties, the GOP has become an electoral joke, in the state that produced Republican leaders like Bill Roth, Caleb Boggs, Pete DuPont and Mike Castle. Now the GOP can't win an election, statewide, for even minor posts. Ultimately, I am sure this will lead to excess power in the hands of one unquestioned party. Frankly, I'd long for a return of the GOP of my youth, which held to the principles of balanced budgets, sensible long-term planning, avoided International involvement whenever possible and stayed the hell out of people's personal morality. But, that's just me......

Ditto here. The GOP has become the party of "Let's have the state intrude on the sexual morality of every woman in the country", despite their consistent platform of "Keep government out of our lives" ideas. They keep it up, they're gonna keep on losing. Morons.

[Heretic]

Really http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/24/pro- ... onvention/

[callmeslick]

if your point, Heretic, in citing a 6 month old news piece, is to show that the Dems have enough sense to stay out of the morass of making stupid pronouncements about how women choose, I guess I see the point. Otherwise.....

[Spidey]

Stop it...I'm getting dizzy.

[Will Robinson]

believe it or not, my perspective, Will is this: It is NOT a good thing for one party(either party) to self-obliterate. Then, in a few short years, you are left with a single party of entrenched power, and to my mind, that isn't a good thing. Right now, here in Delaware, that is what we have. Where we long had two viable parties, the GOP has become an electoral joke, in the state that produced Republican leaders like Bill Roth, Caleb Boggs, Pete DuPont and Mike Castle. Now the GOP can't win an election, statewide, for even minor posts. Ultimately, I am sure this will lead to excess power in the hands of one unquestioned party. Frankly, I'd long for a return of the GOP of my youth, which held to the principles of balanced budgets, sensible long-term planning, avoided International involvement whenever possible and stayed the hell out of people's personal morality. But, that's just me......

We are seeing the Dems beginning to behave like an entrenched party because of the one sided effort of news, editorial and pop culture media. You can't have the selective application of scrutiny and negative media stories favor the efforts of one party relentlessly for decades without tipping the scales in a deep rooted way and now we are seeing the Dems in office flaunt their perceived untouchable stature. Perhaps they are untouchable. The Dems don't own all the Governorships so rigging districts isn't always in their favor but that is the only real bump in their road and it isn't going to hold if the media keeps up their 'good work'.

So, in my view, all the things you worry about from a single party dominating are playing out on a national scale with very little exception. I think we are in for a disaster. Very soon the majority of voters will be addicted to government subsidies in one form or another and with the right changes put in play by Obama it will be the Dems who get to campaign on delivering those payouts. He is doing a good job of getting those things implemented too, he's going to go down in history as being the transformative figure he wants to be but I think in the end history wont look kindly on his results. If he takes the House and the Supreme Court before he's out it is game over for America land of the free, home of the brave.

The only way America works is if the media/press is both relentlessly objective and vicious to liars and frauds. They have abandoned their post and the enemy is in the wire.

[callmeslick]

We are seeing the Dems beginning to behave like an entrenched party because of the one sided effort of news, editorial and pop culture media. You can't have the selective application of scrutiny and negative media stories favor the efforts of one party relentlessly for decades without tipping the scales in a deep rooted way and now we are seeing the Dems in office flaunt their perceived untouchable stature. Perhaps they are untouchable. The Dems don't own all the Governorships so rigging districts isn't always in their favor but that is the only real bump in their road and it isn't going to hold if the media keeps up their 'good work'.

sorry, but this is largely a fallacy promoted by the likes of Fox News and conservative bloggers. Just ain't true, in other words.

So, in my view, all the things you worry about from a single party dominating are playing out on a national scale with very little exception. I think we are in for a disaster. Very soon the majority of voters will be addicted to government subsidies in one form or another and with the right changes put in play by Obama it will be the Dems who get to campaign on delivering those payouts.

do you feel the same way about the grand tradition of largesse handed out to wealthy Americans, especially old-money landowners? Because, that
giveaway has been happening for, like, forever, and continues largely unabated.

He is doing a good job of getting those things implemented too, he's going to go down in history as being the transformative figure he wants to be but I think in the end history wont look kindly on his results. If he takes the House and the Supreme Court before he's out it is game over for America land of the free, home of the brave.

once again, the sort of alarmist thinking that marks the right wing media and blogs. The notion that Obama is anything other than a largely centrist pol with a bit of a populist streak is laughable. If you find him, or his policies, to be 'far left', you really need to go out and see the range of US political thought. Obama is, as I have stated here before, rather akin to the political thinking of D. Eisenhower, certainly more so that to any leftwing Socialist thinkers.

The only way America works is if the media/press is both relentlessly objective and vicious to liars and frauds. They have abandoned their post and the enemy is in the wire.

the press abandons such things, to my mind, only to the extent that most of the citizenry isn't paying attention. If investigative journalism sold well, it would be prominent. It doesn't, so it isn't. Not to say that very, very good work isn't being done. One just has to seek it out. The actual danger, at the current time, is sorting out the real journalism from the numerous ideologically-driven frauds that make the greater level of noise.

[Will Robinson]

We are seeing the Dems beginning to behave like an entrenched party because of the one sided effort of news, editorial and pop culture media. You can't have the selective application of scrutiny and negative media stories favor the efforts of one party relentlessly for decades without tipping the scales in a deep rooted way and now we are seeing the Dems in office flaunt their perceived untouchable stature. Perhaps they are untouchable. The Dems don't own all the Governorships so rigging districts isn't always in their favor but that is the only real bump in their road and it isn't going to hold if the media keeps up their 'good work'.

sorry, but this is largely a fallacy promoted by the likes of Fox News and conservative bloggers. Just ain't true, in other words.

So, in my view, all the things you worry about from a single party dominating are playing out on a national scale with very little exception. I think we are in for a disaster. Very soon the majority of voters will be addicted to government subsidies in one form or another and with the right changes put in play by Obama it will be the Dems who get to campaign on delivering those payouts.

do you feel the same way about the grand tradition of largesse handed out to wealthy Americans, especially old-money landowners? Because, that
giveaway has been happening for, like, forever, and continues largely unabated.

He is doing a good job of getting those things implemented too, he's going to go down in history as being the transformative figure he wants to be but I think in the end history wont look kindly on his results. If he takes the House and the Supreme Court before he's out it is game over for America land of the free, home of the brave.

once again, the sort of alarmist thinking that marks the right wing media and blogs. The notion that Obama is anything other than a largely centrist pol with a bit of a populist streak is laughable. If you find him, or his policies, to be 'far left', you really need to go out and see the range of US political thought. Obama is, as I have stated here before, rather akin to the political thinking of D. Eisenhower, certainly more so that to any leftwing Socialist thinkers.

The only way America works is if the media/press is both relentlessly objective and vicious to liars and frauds. They have abandoned their post and the enemy is in the wire.

the press abandons such things, to my mind, only to the extent that most of the citizenry isn't paying attention. If investigative journalism sold well, it would be prominent. It doesn't, so it isn't. Not to say that very, very good work isn't being done. One just has to seek it out. The actual danger, at the current time, is sorting out the real journalism from the numerous ideologically-driven frauds that make the greater level of noise.

The mainstream media is quite selective in pumping up stories of rightwingers misdeeds compared to leftwingers. When is the last time the leaders of the major news outlets got together to honor a Fox News talking head with an award after he was found to have fabricated a story to undermine a leftwing candidate? No, only the left gets that kind of treatment.cough*Dan Rather*cough

During the recent election cycle the ratio of negative stories was quite one sided. You can choose to ignore it but that doesn't change the reality.

If investigative journalism sold well, it would be prominent. It doesn't, so it isn't.

That is it in a nutshell really. Objective, hard nosed reporting isn't supposed to be cut in favor of sensationalism and partisan editorializing because the consumer buys it more readily! Responsible reporting isn't a product to be shaped by consumer demand, it either is performed or it isn't. When it isn't system breaks down.
The difference in the way the mainstream media and pop culture loudmouths reacted to Bob Packwoods behavior compared to President Clinton's is a nice little study in the way the narrative is tilted. They both should have been kicked to the curb. The Nat. Assoc. of Women suddenly forgot what the definition of sexual harassment was in between those two events as did the main stream media...

I think you don't notice the difference a lot of times because you agree with the ideology of the mainstream reporters.
Here is an example where the New York Times writes and publishes an initial story then goes back to add in their partisan content to keep the underlying narrative flowing strong and deletes the original. Or can you offer some reason for their injecting editorial content into their reporting that has an objective non-biased motive?

Candy Crowely, moderator in the debate?!? She just happened to have the transcript and hold it up on Obama's cue during the debate?!? Come on!! She knew perfectly well that the assertion she helped him make by being the prop girl was factually incorrect because his administrations official line for two weeks after the Rose Garden event was exactly as Romney claimed it was. Of course she apologized a few days later but the damage was done.

[Heretic]

Didn't a Harvard study conclude media biased towards democrats a few years ago?

[Will Robinson]

Didn't a Harvard study conclude media biased towards democrats a few years ago?

Yes, in the 2008 election McCain had three times as many negative stories compared to Obama. Campaign contributions from network news media members were around 95% for Obama 5% for McCain.
Not sure what the numbers were in the recent election but my guess is they were no less tiltled.

[callmeslick]

some of you all ought to pick cherries for a living. From a much, much longer report:

"But that’s not the end of the story. A “meta-analysis” of bias studies — that is, a study of studies — shows something different: When all is said and done, left-leaning reporting is balanced by reporting more favorable to conservatives. “The net effect is zero,” said David D’Alessio, a communications sciences professor at the University of Connecticut at Stamford.

D’Alessio drew his conclusion from reviewing 99 studies of campaign news coverage undertaken over six decades for his newly published work, “Media Bias in Presidential Election Coverage 1948-2008: Evaluation via Formal Measurement.” The research, he says, shows that news reporting tends to point toward the middle, “because that’s where the people are, and that’s where the [advertising] money is. . . . There’s nuance there, but when you add it all and subtract it down, you end up with nothing.”

so, I would put Dr. D'Alessio's 99 studies up versus your total of, um, one. Any day.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I think "fantastic" is the best descriptor I can come up with for that, slick. Some good self-deception material there.

[Krom]

I think both parties tend to believe that if they just dig their respective holes deep enough they may eventually strike gold. It doesn't work, but they delude themselves into thinking it does because on occasion the other team buries themselves first.

It is a race to the bottom and always has been.

[callmeslick]

I think "fantastic" is the best descriptor I can come up with for that, slick. Some good self-deception material there.

why? It's the most thorough academic study of the subject at hand.

[Heretic]

Did you read the whole book there slick or just post what others think?

Benoit and colleagues found pro Democrat in the coverage of the times whereas we did not, Given the difference between or study and theirs I would conclude that they are closer to the truth than we are.

That's in chapter 5 if you did know.

[Will Robinson]

I think "fantastic" is the best descriptor I can come up with for that, slick. Some good self-deception material there.

why? It's the most thorough academic study of the subject at hand.

So if you study the results from far enough back the leanings tend to even out over all?!?

Lol! Are you that silly or just think the rest of us are?
Are people being transported to the future from those less biased times to cast votes based on their 1948 perceptions so over all it's OK that in recent decades the leaning has been left? Lol!

And we are cherry picking?!? You have some pretty old cherries yourself there slick. But you did illustrate Spideys observation on people manipulating perception by the selective use of statistics so you get a cookie for that at least...but first finish your crow...

[Spidey]

The bias in the news media wouldn’t be so bad if it was the only bias, but liberalism pervades all aspects of popular culture.

The perfect example was that show “Politically Incorrect” that touted itself as a fair balanced show where the two sides squared off over the issues, except every show they loaded the panel with one right wing wacko, and three level headed lefties.

And of course it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what was going on there…

The idea was to project the right as a fringe, and the left as the moderate majority.

And there are countless other examples...in drama shows, comedy, entertainment...etc.

[Will Robinson]

Since the '60's the narrative has been shaped to favor the left largely thanks to Nixon and VietNam. The hippies are all grown up and in Washington and they have had the real bully pulpit secured, Hollywood, ever since.

[vision]

Damn that peace and love stuff to hell. Don't take away my America!

[Top Gun]

The bias in the news media wouldn’t be so bad if it was the only bias, but liberalism pervades all aspects of popular culture.

Ah, the good old "reality has a liberal bias" argument.

[Heretic]

Pretty bad when the left wing media starts asking the though questions.

[youtube]xQyWxuidPTo[/youtube]

[Spidey]

Damn that peace and love stuff to hell. Don't take away my America!

I’m pretty sure “Peace” & “Love” lost out to…they killed my wife and kids…MUST…TAKE…REVENGE…long ago.

The bias in the news media wouldn’t be so bad if it was the only bias, but liberalism pervades all aspects of popular culture.

Ah, the good old "reality has a liberal bias" argument.

I hope you're not trying to imply popular culture in any way represents reality…LOL!

Please note TG “popular culture” in this context means the media culture…not actual American culture.

[Tunnelcat]

Really http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/24/pro- ... onvention/

Did I say I was a Democrat? Not.

However, the Republicans in the House and many Republican Governors are the primary culprits who are going after women's rights in most of the states that have passed recent restrictions on abortions, birth control and Planned Parenthood. The House has wasted more votes than I can count on the subject, much to their detriment in the eyes of most women in this country.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... House.html

[Heretic]

Democrats for Life cited a 2011 Gallup poll, which found the following:

61 percent of Democrats support parental consent for minors.
60 percent support a 24-hour waiting period for women seeking an abortion.
Nearly 60 percent support a ban on partial birth abortions.

and of course you didn't say democrat because the would go against your hate towards republicans.

[callmeslick]

Democrats for Life cited a 2011 Gallup poll, which found the following:

61 percent of Democrats support parental consent for minors.
60 percent support a 24-hour waiting period for women seeking an abortion.
Nearly 60 percent support a ban on partial birth abortions.

and of course you didn't say democrat because the would go against your hate towards republicans.

every one of those things is very reasonable. I support the first two, and the third with provisions for health of mother added in. Not a surprise that most Democrats do, as well. Those are very different things from, say, mandatory vaginal ultrasounds, complete shutdown of all abortion providers, and 'personhood' amendments. Wouldn't you agree?

[Heretic]

I agree that the baby's DNA is human from the time of conception, and is separate from his/her mother's. Yes, it proves that it is human from the very beginning. People will try and say anything to make legalized murder ok, and call it choice.

[callmeslick]

I agree that the baby's DNA is human from the time of conception, and is separate from his/her mother's. Yes, it proves that it is human from the very beginning. People will try and say anything to make legalized murder ok, and call it choice.

haven't you(and we, as as a group)beaten this to death by now? There is another thread or three for the Abortion issue, that was NOT the issue of this thread. The topic here is political stupidity.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I agree with callmeslick. Heretic has clearly settled that issue. No need to beat a dead horse.

I believe we were talking about the well-educated public's inability to recognize bankrupt statistical excuses for political monopolies in bed with the media and entertainment industry. Or did you want to go back further?

[Heretic]

Really http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/24/pro- ... onvention/

Did I say I was a Democrat? Not.

However, the Republicans in the House and many Republican Governors are the primary culprits who are going after women's rights in most of the states that have passed recent restrictions on abortions, birth control and Planned Parenthood. The House has wasted more votes than I can count on the subject, much to their detriment in the eyes of most women in this country.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... House.html

And abortions were brought up by?

[callmeslick]

only tangentally.

[snoopy]

I agree that the baby's DNA is human from the time of conception, and is separate from his/her mother's. Yes, it proves that it is human from the very beginning. People will try and say anything to make legalized murder ok, and call it choice.

haven't you(and we, as as a group)beaten this to death by now? There is another thread or three for the Abortion issue, that was NOT the issue of this thread. The topic here is political stupidity.

I see it as a good example of what the democratic party is doing - the video is another example:

If it's a hard subject that's going to require sacrifice from the voters, then avoid the subject and do as little as possible. If it's something that benefits the current voters in some personal way, then make sure it happens and take the credit.

The problem is, future voters are either silenced or will be paying the price for today's indulgences.