Just who is the real tiger?

[Nightshade]

The Chinese are becoming increasingly bellicose in their 'warnings' to the rest of the Asian-Pacific countries. They 'OWN' Asia and will not tolerate competing powers. They have already claimed all of the South China sea (well into the territorial waters of Vietnam, the Philippines and Japan.) Now they are threatening Australia not to 'side' with the USA and Japan.

BEIJING: A Chinese military officer has raised the spectre of nuclear weapons and warned Australia not to side with the United States and Japan as a territorial dispute in the East China Sea continues to escalate.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political ... 2d52d.html

A Chinese officer is not going to 'go rogue' and speak out of school. He is doing this with the support of the military. Threats from Chinese generals and politicians- not to mention state media, are nothing new but the increasing frequency and brazenness are.

China is not doing well internally. Its economy is a lie and its ruling class knows it. Unless they can find some way to unite the country, they will find themselves in revolution.

'Miscalculation' is an understatement. Weakness from Obama at this time is especially dangerous. His appointments of Hagel and Kerry telegraph his complete lack of understanding and weakness to our enemies.

Make no mistake, they ARE our enemies because they themselves describe us as the enemy. Weakness invites war.

[callmeslick]

worth noting, the most immediate enemy of the US in the region is North Korea. Recently, and for the first time, China signed on to a UN sanctions agreement regarding NK and nuke testing/missle testing. This shows how quiet diplomacy from the Obama admin has actually yielded results, as NK starves without China's support, and China being onboard with the sanction regime means something to the North Koreans. We cannot absolutely control Southeast Asia, and we definitely are in no position to saber-rattle with anyone. You could appoint John Bolton and Dick Cheney instead of Kerry and Hegel and the outcome wouldn't be any better, and likely far, far, worse. So what point were you attempting to make, TB?

[Nightshade]

Recently, and for the first time, China signed on to a UN sanctions agreement regarding NK and nuke testing/missle testing. This shows how quiet diplomacy from the Obama admin has actually yielded results, as NK starves without China's support, and China being onboard with the sanction regime means something to the North Koreans.

I see you trust the UN and UN agreements. Naive at best, dangerously stupid at worst.

China is keeping NK on life support as a buffer against a united Korea and the west. It's convenient faux 'loose cannon' that China wields to irritate and keep the west off its doorstep.

China can be trusted about as far as you can throw it.

[callmeslick]

China needs us to keep their economy growing, because their people now have a heightened expectation for their economic future. We need China to keep trading in our currency. It's a relationship that works well for both countries. Kerry and Hegel get that, you clearly do not.

[Nightshade]

China needs us to keep their economy growing, because their people now have a heightened expectation for their economic future.

It is exactly because of this that China is failing. Its economy is an empty shell about to be crushed under its own weight. Materials sit unused on docks. Goods unsold. Ghost cities left lifeless and empty. The citizenry grows restive since expectations have become unsustainable.

It's a relationship that works well for both countries.

China's predatory mercantilism has only fattened the pockets of the corrupt princelings and their families. Trillions plundered, capital flight and the peasantry fleeced along with China's 'trade partners.'

Kerry and Hegel get that, you clearly do not.

Two clueless narcissists to join Obama, the main clueless narcissist...all leading us down the hole. I hope you're proud of yourself.

[flip]

http://www.cfr.org/china/south-china-se ... ons/p29790

There is actually good journalism here on the subject, void of sensationalism. There are alot of good reads on the subject but this is fairly recent. I have been watching this since I found that huge cesspool call Malaysia last year

[callmeslick]

China needs us to keep their economy growing, because their people now have a heightened expectation for their economic future.

It is exactly because of this that China is failing. Its economy is an empty shell about to be crushed under its own weight. Materials sit unused on docks. Goods unsold. Ghost cities left lifeless and empty. The citizenry grows restive since expectations have become unsustainable.

their economy is growing at an 8% annual clip. What are you using as a source of info?

It's a relationship that works well for both countries.

China's predatory mercantilism has only fattened the pockets of the corrupt princelings and their families. Trillions plundered, capital flight and the peasantry fleeced along with China's 'trade partners.'

I'd agree, to a great extent, but what you are overlooking is that to people who were dirt-poor farmers, the money currently available is a big jump up.
Labor, health, working condition issues? Of course, but then again, look at the US in the 1875-1925 timeframe, and you'd see that is part of a society moving toward industrial capitalism, which is what is happening in China.

Kerry and Hegel get that, you clearly do not.

Two clueless narcissists to join Obama, the main clueless narcissist...all leading us down the hole. I hope you're proud of yourself.

I had little to do with it, beyond ponying up a little cash. But, yes, I'm damned proud of the job Obama has done, overall, and even prouder that my fellow citizens didn't buy into the bellicose snakeoil that passes for reason in the anti-Obama camp. Nice of you to call two decorated Vietnam vets, what was it again.....'clueless narcissists'? Uh-huh.....

[woodchip]

Slick not sure what info you are using but TB is right, china's GDP has fallen during 2012:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth

You might want to at least try a simple google before making untrue statements.

[callmeslick]

Slick not sure what info you are using but TB is right, china's GDP has fallen during 2012:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth

You might want to at least try a simple google before making untrue statements.

I'm looking at 4th quarter and current trends, I'll trust my money manager's opinion. Yes, they slumped badly in early 2012, but the GDP did not fall, the rate of growth fell....to 3% or so, which we would LOVE to see the US economy hit. Chinese stocks were a good buy in Q3, if you knew where to look.

edit--Geezus, woody, do you read your own link? That was rosier than what I stated above. They said the quarterly rate of growth slumped only to 1.5% in the early part of 2012. Quarterly growth times 4 is annual growth......

[callmeslick]

'untrue statements'....Woody, that's just pricelessly funny!

(headline below graph touts Chinese annual growth at 8%, comments note that size of Chinese economy at this trajectory catches the US by 2014-15)

feel free to apologize any time it's convenient.....

[woodchip]

The graph clearly shows a fall in gdp from 2011. Whats there to apologize for?

[callmeslick]

The graph clearly shows a fall in gdp from 2011. Whats there to apologize for?

your lack of graph interpretation skills, to start with. The graph shows a drop in the GROWTH RATE of GDP, not a drop in actual GDP, which hasn't had a negative quarter in years. Then, you can consider your idiotic remark that I wasn't saying a truthful thing in stating current or 2012 GDP growth, and wonder why you persist in making a fool of yourself, when you should know by now that I don't make things up when I post. Apology to me not necessary, I suppose, because, by now, you've shown me your level of personal integrity and character.

[Tunnelcat]

As we leave, China now sees an opportunity. You think they can do something with this mess of a country, or will they too get bogged down in this quagmire of an Islamist State. Good luck commie boys. It'll keep you so occupied, Asia Pacific has nothing to worry about.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... n/1866571/

[callmeslick]

well, I guess it's not this guy....tiger blood and all:

[callmeslick]

ok, now I found the real tiger!

[woodchip]

The graph clearly shows a fall in gdp from 2011. Whats there to apologize for?

your lack of graph interpretation skills, to start with. The graph shows a drop in the GROWTH RATE of GDP, not a drop in actual GDP, which hasn't had a negative quarter in years. Then, you can consider your idiotic remark that I wasn't saying a truthful thing in stating current or 2012 GDP growth, and wonder why you persist in making a fool of yourself, when you should know by now that I don't make things up when I post. Apology to me not necessary, I suppose, because, by now, you've shown me your level of personal integrity and character.

Ah yes, so if the growth rate is dropping you are trying to say that the gdp is not dropping either. So by your self proclaimed brilliance if the gdp was growing at a rate of 10% one year and the next year it grew at a rate of 5% the actual gdp did not drop. Do you take us all for idiots? I want you to think real hard in mathematical terms beyond the "if johnny had 2 apples" level you seem to be almost capable of handling. As to making things up you seem to be the board champion at it.

[callmeslick]

Ah yes, so if the growth rate is dropping you are trying to say that the gdp is not dropping either. So by your self proclaimed brilliance if the gdp was growing at a rate of 10% one year and the next year it grew at a rate of 5% the actual gdp did not drop.

geez-o-pete, are you really that stupid? If the GDP growthwas 5%, the GDP went up by 5%.

Do you take us all for idiots?

nah, pretty much just you.

I want you to think real hard in mathematical terms beyond the "if johnny had 2 apples" level you seem to be almost capable of handling. As to making things up you seem to be the board champion at it.

see above, and ponder if I'm the only one reading your drivel and laughing at you.

[woodchip]

Ah yes, so if the growth rate is dropping you are trying to say that the gdp is not dropping either. So by your self proclaimed brilliance if the gdp was growing at a rate of 10% one year and the next year it grew at a rate of 5% the actual gdp did not drop.

geez-o-pete, are you really that stupid? If the GDP growthwas 5%, the GDP went up by 5%.

Do you take us all for idiots?

Yeah, it went up by 5% but the year before it went up by 10%. So COMPARED to the previous year there was less earned. Here so even you understand. Little Johnny sold 10 apples last year. The year before that he sold 9 apples and thus had almost a 10% rise in gross sales. This year he sold 10.5 apples (he ate half of one just so you don't get confused). If he would of had better self control he could of sold 11 apples and made more money. Now comrade I hope I don't have to make up a coloring book so you can understand better whats going on.

[callmeslick]

yup, you ARE that stupid.

[Foil]

Alright boys.

Woody said the gdp dropped, Slick shot that down, and then Woody clarified. We've all now been thoroughly educated on the difference between a "value drop" and a "growth-rate drop". Are you both done?

[callmeslick]

I was done before anyone came in here and claimed I was misrepresenting facts.