....A Well-Regulated Militia.....

[flip]

LOL! Your whole response proves my point and the fact that you don't realize that causes me peaceful and uninterrupted sleep at night . See Slick, I remember the things you've forgotten you've said You deny and confirm in the same response. Good luck with that.

[callmeslick]

in what way.....not that uninterrupted sleep isn't a good thing? You see, Flip, I look around me and know full well that the general public is nothing near as well-educated as prior generations, especially on grasp of current events and critical thinking. I look around and see a populace filled with folks who depend on religion(superstition) to guide their judgement about things completely outside religion's reach. I see a population of people obsessed with shallow thinking, even-shallower culture and all the above make me quite certain you are wrong to suggest otherwise. I see a political system which to this day rewards the same old families that it always has and I know you are wrong. I see grassroots groups as diverse as the Tea Party and Occupy get crushed once they fail to prove useful for the old guard and know you will be proven wrong. Explain yourself, because your cryptic words above don't even start to....

[flip]

I've seen cockroaches run like hell when the lights are turned on. LOL! My words are not cryptic. I know exactly how you think. It permeates your every post.

[woodchip]

...as one lawyer from North Carolina, who has argued before the SCOTUS, told me: "It is settled law that you can own a gun for self defense, or for property defense. It is marginally accepted that you can own one for the purpose of national defense(militia idea), but ownership for the purpose of hunting or other sporting use is clearly a privilege, and the extent to which the types of and ammunition for firearms can be regulated is EXTREMELY murky." My take is that if it is murky to him, a 72 year old, very accomplished barrister, no one in here can be quite as certain as some wish to be.....

Curious how you always seem to know some "expert" whose opinion is something we need to take as indisputable fact. You can say all you want but with a link at least to back up what you are saying, a lot of us only take your assertions without even a grain of salt.

as opposed to you, I don't blatantly make things up, nor do I yell 'liar' at folks quoting provable facts. I'm not going to provide a link to my fishing buddy, and we've seen how openminded and honest you are, so why would I bother? You question MY credibility?

No one asked for a link to your fishing buddy. A link showing how SCOTUS reversed precedence regarding 2nd amendment was what I was after.

[callmeslick]

how do I think, Flip? Not expecting a full biochemical breakdown of brain function, but put it in words.....because you aren't getting anything across now, nor have you tried to address any of the points I countered with above. I am dealing in reality.....21st century reality, by the way, not that such in many ways, differs from Industrial Age reality. What's funny is how many folks who call themselves conservative seem to want to run backwards even further to an 18th century reality, not that it is possible. Those folks do so without much real knowledge of what that reality entailed for the average man or woman......

[callmeslick]

No one asked for a link to your fishing buddy. A link showing how SCOTUS reversed precedence regarding 2nd amendment was what I was after.

I thought such a thing is common knowledge, but here is a link:http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Mags/The-Se ... -Court.htm

there is much denser text in the SCOTUS review, but this is pretty straightforward.

[flip]

I gave my assessments already in the post above. The fact you dont see it is even more encouraging. You see, in the past people were simple minded and overly trusting. Its no longer a conspiracy how you and yours have completely undermined this nations fundamental core. Its on the history channel for God's sake! Everything would stay fine as long as people are fed well, have good paying jobs and still believe in the American dream. But you guys are gonna screw it all up. Eventually people are gonna quit giving a crap and that kind of arrogance is what's gonna do it.

[callmeslick]

I gave my assessments already in the post above. The fact you dont see it is even more encouraging. You see, in the past people were simple minded and overly trusting.

and you think that has changed, for the better??

Its no longer a conspiracy how you and yours have completely undermined this nations fundamental core. Its on the history channel for God's sake! Everything would stay fine as long as people are fed well, have good paying jobs and still believe in the American dream. But you guys are gonna screw it all up. Eventually people are gonna quit giving a crap and that kind of arrogance is what's gonna do it.

and how does that change matters? Did anything change with the Great Depression? No, a patrician came and prevailed upon his fellow patricians to get the nation back on it's feet. People don't still believe in the American dream? Then why have a few million Mexicans showed up here? Why do south Asians flock here? What sort of delusions are you operating under? And, where do you get them from? You see arrogance, I see confidence in my facts. Things haven't changed like you think, and I hope you aren't too disappointed when it dawns on you that I was right.

[flip]

I just can't LOL. I imagine before long with the likes of you at the helm, and America looks just like another third world mismanaged mess, they will all wish they had just stayed at home

[Will Robinson]

...
People don't still believe in the American dream? Then why have a few million Mexicans showed up here? Why do south Asians flock here? ...

They don't flock here for 'the American Dream'. No one teaches that concept in the hell holes they come from. They flock here to avoid a bullet to the head or because they can trade real poverty for a guaranteed minimum living condition that is a major upgrade for them, 'American poverty' which is upper middle class where they come from...

That's the immigrants dream. When left to their own devices they don't even learn the language! They don't come here to be one of us they come here to be themselves in a safer and more bountiful environment.

And of course there are exceptions to the rule, I'm sure you go fishing with salvadorans who came here to study philanthropy and cure cancer...

[callmeslick]

They don't flock here for 'the American Dream'. No one teaches that concept in the hell holes they come from.

tell that to any of a few tens of thousands of Indians from, say, Mumbai......they come here, work hard, send their kids to top colleges because, and solely because, they understand how the American Dream concept works. Repeat that load of manure to any one of them and watch them double over laughing at your foolish ass.

That's the immigrants dream. When left to their own devices they don't even learn the language! They don't come here to be one of us they come here to be themselves in a safer and more bountiful environment.

once again, you must never have had a conversation with a south Asian. Also, I note a very nice assimilation of Mexicans and Guatamalens into rural Virginia culture. By the second generation, you can't tell them, behaviorally, from the Virginians. The ones that work hard, do pretty well. Some even own small businesses. Do you get out much? I ask, because your simplistic, ignorant generalizations seem to be the work of someone who never bothered to interact with too many people outside his tight circle.....
as for my personal contacts, I worked in healthcare for 3 decades. Tons of Indian, Vietnamese, Filipino workers in the workforce.
I trained one or two and got to know and understand, and further, APPRECIATE the level of sacrifice they put in, to better their childrens lives. Very interesting how south Asians value higher education, and strong educational achievement. The damn near demand it from their kids, unlike the average native these days. The results are clear in the rolls of top-notch scientific institutions nationwide. As for personal insights into Central Americans, if one lives in Eastern Virginia, you cannot avoid contact. Only an insulated redneck fool would fail to try to engage them in conversation and get to know them.

[woodchip]

Slick, Will was talking about illegal Mexicans, not people coming here legally.

[Spidey]

Hummmm…that’s funny, I could have sworn someone on this board said the American Dream was an illusion, or somesuch.

Well, I guess when it supports your argument……

[Will Robinson]

[...once again, you must never have had a conversation with a south Asian. ...

Not with the ones who don't speak English....

I have some real world experience too slick. I grew up on the borer of Juarez Mexico and El Paso Texas. I lived, loved and worked with my south of the border brothers and sisters and have a pretty good understanding of what motivated them to move north.
They didn't create the orginazation La Raza for assimilation purposes.
No, of course they don't all resist joining in but there are plenty of people coming here for their own dreams, not to capture some iconic over romantasized piece of fresh apple pie.

I also am aware of culturally isolated pockets of our larger cities where, as one example, they named it Chinatown for a reason. If I ever learn mandarin I'll have some conversations with them on my next visit. The same situation exists for many other nationalities, segregated by choice.

I'm not sure why you feel a need to attribute that motive to them, they don't need to have it for permission to come here. I wish assimilation was more of a priority though for lots of good reasons.

[callmeslick]

Slick, Will was talking about illegal Mexicans, not people coming here legally.

well, if so, he chose to do so in response to my statement which implied neither, actually. I was referring to ALL who come here.

[callmeslick]

[...once again, you must never have had a conversation with a south Asian. ...

Not with the ones who don't speak English....

I have some real world experience too slick. I grew up on the borer of Juarez Mexico and El Paso Texas. I lived, loved and worked with my south of the border brothers and sisters and have a pretty good understanding of what motivated them to move north.
They didn't create the orginazation La Raza for assimilation purposes.
No, of course they don't all resist joining in but there are plenty of people coming here for their own dreams, not to capture some iconic over romantasized piece of fresh apple pie.

I also am aware of culturally isolated pockets of our larger cities where, as one example, they named it Chinatown for a reason. If I ever learn mandarin I'll have some conversations with them on my next visit. The same situation exists for many other nationalities, segregated by choice.

I'm not sure why you feel a need to attribute that motive to them, they don't need to have it for permission to come here. I wish assimilation was more of a priority though for lots of good reasons.

you have no clue what you are talking about.....seriously. You can't go to your local Chinatown and speak in English to anyone? Wanna bet most of their kids are near the top of the class in the local school system? Same with Indians who come here. Most speak English, and usually about 3 other languages or dialects as well. The Spanish speakers DO, for a generation or so, stay insulated by language skills. As did the Italians, Poles and about 15 other nationalities that this nation has assimilated successfully.

[woodchip]

And yet the Obama administration goes so far as to go into Mexico and advertise how to collect welfare benny's once they illegally sneak in here. Wonder if that happens in Asian countries also.

[callmeslick]

And yet the Obama administration goes so far as to go into Mexico and advertise how to collect welfare benny's once they illegally sneak in here. Wonder if that happens in Asian countries also.

linkage, please? Or, should I simply assume you are making stuff up as usual?

[woodchip]

The U.S. government is teaming up with Mexico in order to expand the food stamps programme to more Latino communities, it has been revealed.

The controversial partnership could encourage immigrants who are unable to support themselves to move north of the border, according to a leading senator.

And it also raises questions about the racial element of federal welfare programmes, with government aid being explicitly directed at certain ethnic groups.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ramme.html

[callmeslick]

as I thought. Nowhere in the article does it state that the advertising is done in Mexico. Nowhere does it even suggest that such outreach is being made to illegal immigrants here in the US. It merely elists the assistance of Mexican government officials to better communicate to LEGAL immigrants here in the US about benefits they are legally entitled to. It's a communication outreach project, and all of the communication is being done in the US, not in Mexico.

Reading comprehension issue, or just trying to lie again to make a point that doesn't exist? Either way, a classic fail.

[woodchip]

Perhaps you should stop skim reading:

"This includes a series of pamphlets and posters in English and Spanish provided to Mexican officials for distribution to those seeking welfare benefits."

[Top Gun]

Slick, it's much easier to counter that by "lol Daily Mail."

[callmeslick]

Perhaps you should stop skim reading:

"This includes a series of pamphlets and posters in English and Spanish provided to Mexican officials for distribution to those seeking welfare benefits."

and, where did those Mexican officials work? Ever hear of the word 'consulate'......look it up, you might find enlightenment.

[callmeslick]

Slick, it's much easier to counter that by "lol Daily Mail."

nah, they're still a real newspaper, albeit with a political ax to grind. Generally, I find simple usage of the English language is enough to counter Woody.

[woodchip]

Slick, it's much easier to counter that by "lol Daily Mail."

As though the New York Times would write something bad about it's main squeeze.

[callmeslick]

Slick, it's much easier to counter that by "lol Daily Mail."

As though the New York Times would write something bad about it's main squeeze.

more personal insults for the President? Boy, do you ever contribute a big, fat, ZERO to intelligent discourse. Flip, by the way, would you like to rethink that bit about a far more educated population? Just because people have interweb access, doesn't mean they're prepared to use it to expand their thinking....in fact, studies have shown the effect to be narrowing upon intellect.

[Top Gun]

Slick, it's much easier to counter that by "lol Daily Mail."

As though the New York Times would write something bad about it's main squeeze.

You really have no ★■◆●ing clue what you're talking about. It's adorable.

[Will Robinson]

[...

you have no clue what you are talking about.....seriously. You can't go to your local Chinatown and speak in English to anyone? ...

I never said there were none in Chinatown who speak english. I referred to the creation of a place like that as an example of pockets of immigrants who are quite happy to come here and continue their own culture instead of learning to assimilate to a new one.

It isn't like everyone reading this doesn't already know that!

What they might find enlightening is how blatantly you resort to creating a straw man of my original assertion as a way to seek dominance in a discussion instead of dealing with reality....
And over what?!? That I dare say that lots of immigrants don't come here in pursuit of the American dream? How the hell can something so simple set you off in full spin mode? Lol!

[flip]

I'm not in the habit of condemning all people to be stupid and beneath me Slick. I elevate people, I do not box them in. First hand account of the dangers of disarming a population, a completely overwhelmed Police Officer by now:

From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real
figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to
surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own
government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria.....
lone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that
while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not
and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins andassaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late!
Will you be one of the sheep to turn yours in?
WHY? You will need it.

[callmeslick]

I never said there were none in Chinatown who speak english. I referred to the creation of a place like that as an example of pockets of immigrants who are quite happy to come here and continue their own culture instead of learning to assimilate to a new one.

and this differs from Little Italy, and countless Polish, Lithuanian, Russian and Irish enclaves that are and were found throughout this nation?

That I dare say that lots of immigrants don't come here in pursuit of the American dream? How the hell can something so simple set you off in full spin mode? Lol!

spin my ass....your comment showed both ignorance and insulation. And, you did little subsequently to dispel that impression.

[callmeslick]

@Flip.....nice article from Down Under. Now, explain WHO is suggesting you or anyone turn in your guns?

[CUDA]

I believe his point was controlling Guns does not deter or slow crime. that article, Chicago, the newspaper map from NYC all prove his point.

[flip]

You yourself wanted to ban certain firearms, repeal all concealed carry laws and have the guns left kept under lock and key. That is essentially disarming the whole population right there.

The above article is misinformation Slick , however, these allegations are not and if these allegations made by the very police officers themselves are true, then you wonder why numbers are being manipulated to support failed policy. Now, instead of just having failed policy , you also make you police have to start lying, and that does something to the brain .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rgets.html

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/14381214/201 ... ting-stats

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/nyreg ... d=all&_r=0

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ommit.html

The list goes on and on. So, if gun control actually doesn't work, what is the motivation to have those that enforce the law to actually lie to continue supporting it? Statistics are crap and unreliable.

[callmeslick]

You yourself wanted to ban certain firearms, repeal all concealed carry laws and have the guns left kept under lock and key. That is essentially disarming the whole population right there.

note that even you don't claim I wish to have people turn things in or have them removed from their premises.Which is, precisely, the boogie man in the link you posted. And, no, the evidence does not show anywhere near conclusively that gun regulations fail to protect the greater society. Data all over the place, to be honest.

[woodchip]

Statistics don't lie and liars use statistics.

[CUDA]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[flip]

No Slick, you don't want to confiscate them, you just want to turn them into relics! My point with the statistics is this. Statistics are supposed to be used to confirm or deny the success of whatever, just the very fact that the data is being manipulated and lied about proves gun control does not work, but instead of just admitting it's an ineffective way to control crime, they start lying and make others become liars right along with them. The point is that anyone with common sense knows that gun control only works against law-abiding citizens and actually lessens the threat and gives greater opportunity to criminals. Anyone that understands that is against any kind of gun control, because it does nothing to address the problem and lessens their security and peace of mind.

[woodchip]

Here's another little truism "First comes registration, then come confiscation"

[Will Robinson]

I never said there were none in Chinatown who speak english. I referred to the creation of a place like that as an example of pockets of immigrants who are quite happy to come here and continue their own culture instead of learning to assimilate to a new one.

and this differs from Little Italy, and countless Polish, Lithuanian, Russian and Irish enclaves that are and were found throughout this nation?

It was, as I stated at the time I mentioned it, "an example", I never implied it was exclusive. You love to comment on the reading comprehension skills of others, perhaps you should stop throwing those rocks from within your own glass house.

There are places in America where immigrants live together and they have maintained their own language and customs as best they could. It is a natural occurrence in human nature and your denial of it is comical. Even as recently as last year we have had Muslim immigrants try to get their religious law used in place of U.S. law to settle disputes among them. That obviously runs counter to separation of church and state and counter to the concept of assimilation. But since you know that many immigrants pursue your American Dream all the examples I give are magically wiped from existence. Thus the inhabitants of slickworld can continue to function unenlightened.

That I dare say that lots of immigrants don't come here in pursuit of the American dream? How the hell can something so simple set you off in full spin mode? Lol!

spin my ass....your comment showed both ignorance and insulation. And, you did little subsequently to dispel that impression.

I am aware of the reality. I gave examples of the reality. That is knowledge of reality not ignorance. I'm ignorant of your motive for ignoring reality.
And where do you get off speaking for all immigrants?!? Some of them might be insulted with your assertion that they pursue "the American Dream"!

[callmeslick]