And Now Its the Dems turn

[Ferno]

not a chance.....you'd then get my real name, and I don't want some of these characters stalking me!!

do it via pm then, ya party pooper.


oh and spidey, i'm sure that HUMAN rights for gays is such a leftist thing to do. This isn't the 1950's anymore...

[Spidey]

I never said anything about “HUMAN” rights for gay people, I believe the modern debate is pretty much about “legal” rights.

[Krom]

It would be wise to mind ones frame of reference when trying to call someone a leftest around here, the standard in this forum is generally so far right it is practically beyond lunar orbit.

[Spidey]

JFTR my judgments are based in common political beliefs…not this board’s, and was in no way intended to portray this board’s political leanings in any way…just one person in denial.

But it seems so many on the left are in denial of this fact that it’s hardly worth it.

[Ferno]

common. riiiight.

so, just because they're gay, means they're less than human somehow, and therefore shouldn't have the same legal rights as any other? is that it?

[Sergeant Thorne]

Don't be a twerp, Ferno. Anyone can see you're trying to create controversy where there is none because you don't like what Spidey said. If you have such a problem with Spidey's original 3 words, then start a topic on the subject instead of taking advantage to hijack this one. BTW, it is absolutely a "left" position. I know a lot of people who are conservative, not because of the team they chose but just because they are, and they cringe at the idea of homosexuality. Religious folks as well--who happen to also be conservative. That's no secret. I don't know what you're trying to pull. It has always been liberal/leftist folks who latch onto the Gay Rights movement and its cause. More recently there has been a move to try to re-frame it, and just make it the next big human rights movement. Fact of the matter there is that the public acceptance of any particular deviant behavior is not a natural right. But people have the right to be treated like human beings and not targeted out of hate.

[Top Gun]

JFTR my judgments are based in common political beliefs…not this board’s, and was in no way intended to portray this board’s political leanings in any way…just one person in denial.

But it seems so many on the left are in denial of this fact that it’s hardly worth it.

Actually, your listing there doesn't really mesh with a full spectrum of political views. By any political science diagram, the Democratic Party is slightly right-of-center on that axis, while the Republican Party is waaaay to the right. It's why the cries of "onoz socialism!" crack me up so much.

[Ferno]

he ran away topgun, so don't expect a reply from him anytime soon.

[Spidey]

Duh, my listing wasn’t supposed to “mesh with a full spectrum of political views” it’s only supposed to represent the side of each view I perceive slick to be on….jeeze…doesn’t any one know how to read.

And who said anything about socialism. Or even if any of those views are bad or good…I’m just trying to expose slick as being in denial of his real leanings.

Why all of the denial…that’s all I’m saying, I’m proud of my political beliefs…no matter what side of center they fall on.

Jeeze, there is so much denial going on, you would think there aren’t any liberals left. (no pun)

[callmeslick]

Well slick let’s take a tally…

Party…Democratregistered in Delaware as Independant

Issue…Position

Taxes…Leftwhat's left or right? I am in favor of balancing taxation and outlay.
Weed…Leftyup,but becoming a Centrist position
Abortion…Leftyup,but anti abortion is limited to the far right, more and more
Social Programs…Leftnot really. I support many programs, but within far more sensible bounds than the far left
Gay Rights…Left70% of the nation supports full gay rights. Call that one pure Centrist
Debt & Deficit…LeftI've repeatedly called for balanced budgets, and rainy day funds, paying down the debt over the long haul.
Guns…Leftsensible gun control is a leftist positon? Who knew?
Health Care…leftvery mainstream
Religion...Leftin what way? I'm a Methodist, but believe in church/state separation. Pretty traditional conservative.
Etc…in fact I can’t honestly think of one issue to credit a “right”.

the problem you encounter, Spidey, is your definition of 'left'. It essentially is anyone who disagrees with your positions. Traditional American conservative values include:
1. Balancing budgets over the long haul, with sensible use of deficit spending to build infrastructure or other long-term investments.
2.Separation of Church and State. I belong to the Sons of the American Revolution, a VERRRY traditional, conservative organization. This issue is one of their core issues.
3. Building the long-term economy. This includes sensible taxation(not LOW taxation), government investment in basic science, etc.

in many of the issues above, what you call 'LEFT' are positions held by the VAST MAJORITY of your fellow citizens. In other words, that makes such positions Centrist. And, at my core, I am a Centrist, who is likely a bit left of center on social matters, a bit right of center on certain positions around the economy and business. Your list, frankly, is a joke.

[callmeslick]

JFTR my judgments are based in common political beliefs…not this board’s, and was in no way intended to portray this board’s political leanings in any way…just one person in denial.

But it seems so many on the left are in denial of this fact that it’s hardly worth it.

If you believe the above to be accurate, you need to get out of the bunker and examine the positions of ALL of your fellow citizens.

[Spidey]

the problem you encounter, Spidey, is your definition of 'left'. It essentially is anyone who disagrees with your positions. .

I doubt if you even know what my positions are.

[callmeslick]

I'm just trying to figure out how you could brand mine as 'left'. The only logical explanation is that you are using some sort of personal benchmark, because I am pretty mainstream centrist on most issues. Personally, classifying virtually all postions of substance as left or right is WAY too simplistic for me. There is too much in the way of nuance in any position arrived at with real thought and insight.

[Spidey]

What’s wrong with being “left”. And why do so many run from the label?

Let me ask you a question slick…

What side of the spectrum do you think I fall on?

[callmeslick]

What’s wrong with being “left”. And why do so many run from the label?

left or right indicates both extremes, and also oversimplification.

Let me ask you a question slick…

What side of the spectrum do you think I fall on?

once again, oversimplification doesn't appeal to me. You seem to vary by issue, as do most of us, and at the end of the day, you'd likely be more centrist than at either extreme, overall. One has to work from the extreme inward, and most posters on this board aren't going to be at the farthest extremes.
Most of us, truth be told would be left of center or right of it, and the big lie of American politics is the folks who make money riling people up about the oppostion being 'extreme', or diametrically opposed to all that is good and proper.

[Spidey]

I see what the problem here is…you think being labeled to one side or other of center implies extremism.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[callmeslick]

I see what the problem here is…you think being labeled to one side or other of center implies extremism.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

no, it denotes GROSS oversimplification. Anyway, your post exclaiming that only one person here wouldn't consider my positions leftist prompted a poll.
Polls are fun!

[Spidey]

I hope people will at least try to honest.

[callmeslick]

I hope people will at least try to honest.

I always give them one obvious out. However, to get back to this discussion, you have not minced words. You called me simply 'left' or as 'spreading leftist propaganda' on another occaision. Sorry, but you don't get off the hook by backpedaling over really meaning 'left of center' or 'center-left' when stating these simplistic things. What is so 'leftist' in my positions?? I clearly laid out, above, in my response to your list, that most of my positions are very much Centrist, some would be deemed historically conservative. What's your rationale?

[Spidey]

And JFTR…I don’t really consider “centrist” anything to write home about anyway. If you really need the label so badly…you can have it.

As far as my rational...you came on this board posting one sided political humor, you constantly put down conservatives, while promoting liberals...etc

Look…it’s a perspective…and you are having a hard time convincing me otherwise, so let’s just drop it.

I hope you get the poll results you want….

[Ferno]

Duh, my listing wasn’t supposed to “mesh with a full spectrum of political views” it’s only supposed to represent the side of each view I perceive slick to be on….jeeze…doesn’t any one know how to read.

And who said anything about socialism. Or even if any of those views are bad or good…I’m just trying to expose slick as being in denial of his real leanings.

Why all of the denial…that’s all I’m saying, I’m proud of my political beliefs…no matter what side of center they fall on.

Jeeze, there is so much denial going on, you would think there aren’t any liberals left. (no pun)

backpedal, backpedal...

[Spidey]

Parrot…Parrot…

[Ferno]

you know.. you never really answered what I posted in here last, about gay rights. Why is that?

and the fact that you seem to go crazy whenever the left is mentioned, but duck out by saying that being left isn't bad. What's it going to be?

[Spidey]

Because you only get to goad me once a day.

[Ferno]

It was an actual question. But if you seem to look down on gays because you think they're different for some reason. that's a real problem you should look into.

You want to tell us why they don't deserve the same legal rights as the rest of us?

[Spidey]

You got all that from posting that I believe slick’s views on Gay Rights are on the left?

[Ferno]

Taxes…Left
Weed…Left
Abortion…Left
Social Programs…Left
Gay Rights…Left
Debt & Deficit…Left
Guns…Left
Health Care…left
Religion...Left
Etc…in fact I can’t honestly think of one issue to credit a “right”.

no, I got it from this.

I never said anything about “HUMAN” rights for gay people, I believe the modern debate is pretty much about “legal” rights.

and this.

So, you going to answer or are you going to continue dodging?

[callmeslick]

hell, he never even rebutted my claim that Gay rights was a mainstream Centrist issue at this point in time, Fermo......

[Ferno]

really....

[Spidey]

Slick, you should know by now I don’t do the line item opinion veto, that’s your thing. (when I raised the point, that you had said to revoke all conceal carry permits, you simply lied about ever saying it...so what's the point) Going back over everything is really a bore.

Ferno, “my” views are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make…and I also made that clear already.

[callmeslick]

Slick, you should know by now I don’t do the line item opinion veto, that’s your thing. (when I raised the point, that you had said to revoke all conceal carry permits, you simply lied about ever saying it...so what's the point) Going back over everything is really a bore.

I said in my ideal world I would do so, not that I thought it was something to do in the real world of 2013.....

Ferno, “my” views are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make…and I also made that clear already.

well, then, what WAS your point in describing my views as 'left'?? We sort of need to know the frame of reference, which is what Fermo was getting at.

[Spidey]

Ferno asked a loaded question, and you know it. Has no relevance to my point, which I have already conceded to you…so give it up already.

[callmeslick]

I'm merely pointing out that it wasn't really a loaded question<sigh>

[Ferno]

geez, i haven't seen a dodge like that since Darktalyn and I played 1v1...

Ferno, “my” views are irrelevant to the point I was trying to make…and I also made that clear already.

yes, and that point is: "I have no point".

But, if you DO have a point, make it. I can't chase you around forever.

[Spidey]

Fine, I will give either one of you the final chance of explaining why my position on gay rights has anything to do with slicks…and why not all of the others as well?
...........................

“You want to tell us why they don't deserve the same legal rights as the rest of us?”

Where did I say they didn’t?

That is the classic definition of a loaded question.

Hey slick….why do you believe all Republicans should be murdered in their sleep?

[flip]

Shucks. There go our summer road-trip plans. Where to in lieu, Woody, Will, Flip?

Lol! Stalk him? I can't even be bothered to debate him:p Plus, I already figured out his name unless he's entirely full of crap, Lee wasn't it?

[callmeslick]

Hey slick….why do you believe all Republicans should be murdered in their sleep?

no, of course not.....they should be fully awake.

[snoopy]

There are a few angles on the subject of gay rights that we can address. Maybe, in fact, it's more of an issue of "other issues, which will have an impact on gay rights."

As far as state issue of marriage licenses: I'd love for this to remain a state question. I'm in the libertarian camp of keeping as much governing power as local as possible. To that end, I'd love it if congress stays out, and SCOTUS (when/if they get involved) rules that it isn't the federal government's business. When it comes to matters that do touch federal government (I.E. tax code, healthcare benefits, etc.) there's got to be a way for them to simply differ to the states - I.E. you're allowed to file jointly (or the health insurance providers are required to offer you family coverage) if you have a state-issued certificate of union. That way, worst case, if your state doesn't let you marry your boyfriend and you don't like it, move somewhere where they do.

As far at right-wing thought goes: I think this is a stupid issue to fight over. There are more important issues... we (I'd consider myself a right-winger) should just drop the issue and move on to more important things. I thing that I would fight about: Along with approving gay marriage licenses (or whatever) they better not try to sneak in any sort of crap saying that churches (or clergy) are required to give equal opportunity to all types of couples. The religious aspect of marriage should be separate from the civil aspect of marriage, and if a particular clergy doesn't believe in heterosexual (or homosexual) marriage, he/she shouldn't be required to change. (I.E. maintain separation of church and state.) There is always the justice of the peace who can do the civil side of it.

[Spidey]

Honest Discourse…RIP

[callmeslick]

Shucks. There go our summer road-trip plans. Where to in lieu, Woody, Will, Flip?

Lol! Stalk him? I can't even be bothered to debate him:p Plus, I already figured out his name unless he's entirely full of crap, Lee wasn't it?

wrong. two people on this board know my real name, and you clearly aren't one of them.....