Giving women rights is a BAD idea!

[Nightshade]

Or so says the freely elected government of Egypt:

(Reuters) - Egypt's ruling Muslim Brotherhood warns that a U.N. declaration on women's rights could destroy society by allowing a woman to travel, work and use contraception without her husband's approval and letting her control family spending.

The Islamist movement that backs President Mohamed Mursi gave 10 reasons why Muslim countries should "reject and condemn" the declaration, which the U.N. Commission on the Status of Women is racing to negotiate a consensus deal on by Friday.

The Brotherhood, whose Freedom and Justice Party propelled Mursi to power in June, posted the statement on its website, http://www.ikhwanweb.com, and the website of the party on Thursday.

Egypt has joined Iran, Russia and the Vatican - dubbed an "unholy alliance" by some diplomats - in threatening to derail the women's rights declaration by objecting to language on sexual, reproductive and gay rights.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/ ... 3D20130315

Can you say, backward thinking?

[Tunnelcat]

Glad I'm not living in Egypt or amongst Muslims. They would have a subversive revolutionary on their hands that would take none of this paternalistic religious crap and would make their lives miserable. I'm betting quite a few Egyptian women aren't too happy about this either.

[Foil]

Heh, I still hear somewhat similar objections by Christians (most often older folk, but I've heard it among younger couples, too) who advocate returning to "traditional roles".

Personally, I think a women's-lib movement over there is inevitable. I gather Iran is already fairly engaged in that cultural battle.

[CDN_Merlin]

I believe that having women get into the work force has inflated the price of everything because companies think"hey, they are making twice as much, we'll charge 4 times as much for stuff now".

Seen the price of houses yet? My parents bought a house for 29K back in 1976. Today, a house similar, is worth nearly $500,000. Talk about inflation. It really isn't worth that much.

EDIT:Not saying Women's lib is bad, but just saying it's increased the cost of everything. Oh, and I also believe that kids are suffering and having no respect because someone isn't staying home during the young early days.

[CUDA]

I gather Iran is already fairly engaged in that cultural battle.

Ya they shoot people and throw them in jail all the time. how much more engaged can you be then that

[Will Robinson]

I believe that having women get into the work force has inflated the price of everything because companies think"hey, they are making twice as much, we'll charge 4 times as much for stuff now". ...

I think the competition in a free market keeps price gouging like that under control.

[vision]

I gather Iran is already fairly engaged in that cultural battle.

What most people don't seem to realize (because that would spoil the popular narrative) is that Iran is the most modern and secular Islamic country in the Middle East (even more than Turkey, which is sometimes considered European). Iran is the most western and the most like the United States. Of course, they still have a long way to go, having a brutal theocracy and all, but the point is they are leaps and bounds closer to what we consider "civilized" than any of their neighbors. The women have the fewest restrictions on dress code, partially because the hijab was only introduced recently as of the 1979 Revolution. I believe that Iran will only grow more successful as time goes on and that will lead other Islamic nations to follow suit (or be left behind).

[Krom]

I think the competition in a free market keeps price gouging like that under control.

Free markets are a fantasy, in reality there is no such thing. The market will either gravitate towards private monopolies or public monopolies. Competition is also a fantasy that everyone wakes up from when they realize they can profit more from consolidation.

[Spidey]

The true affect of women joining the workforce was to reduce overall wages, making it in fact an employers market.

And “competition” isn’t always the greatest thing since sliced bread, just think what it would be like if software developers actually had to write code for many many OS’s. And there is also the concept involving economy of scale…not to mention things like why the government consolidated the couple of dozen phone companies that once existed.

Sometimes competition has the effect of raising prices, and lowering services…as counter intuitive as that sounds, because no one company can acquire the raw materials at a price to have a truly efficient process. (among other reasons)

Competition also lowers wages. (in theory)

The trick to making economy of scale work…is proper regulation.

[Foil]

The true affect of women joining the workforce was to reduce overall wages, making it in fact an employers market.

Agreed, and I don't understand Merlin's assertion that women entering the workplace somehow caused housing inflation.

[Will Robinson]

I think the competition in a free market keeps price gouging like that under control.

Free markets are a fantasy, in reality there is no such thing. The market will either gravitate towards private monopolies or public monopolies. Competition is also a fantasy that everyone wakes up from when they realize they can profit more from consolidation.

Point taken on economics of scale, monopolies, etc. but in Merlin's example do you really believe his parents house, or anything else has had its price inflated simply on the basis of 'woman are now in the workforce therefore we can inflate prices'?!?

I think that is a non factor.

Markets, however not-really-free they are, will not have enough solidarity among vendors to keep one from not adopting the women work price gouge model in order to be the lowest priced option which in turn will lead to other vendors not maintaining the market price+'women work' price level. Call it something other than competition if I picked the wrong name for it but I'm pretty sure it will still hold true...

I know I don't price my goods and services with a working women markup factor included! And I'd love it if my competitors would do so.

[CDN_Merlin]

Will, my reason is that if you take a look at the price of things in the 70's and increase it for today's value, it's way over priced. I understand there is inflation but it's way overpriced now.

[Foil]

Merlin, where's the connection between women entering the workforce, and the inflation/overpricing? And what do the 1970s have to do with it?

Women were entering the workplace in significant numbers in the 1940s and 1960s, and inflation has been measurably occurring at varied rates for hundreds of years. [Plus, as has been noted above, women entering the workforce at lower wages tends to lower employer costs, which tends to reduce inflation.]

[Sergeant Thorne]

I don't see it, Merlin, but I wonder if you might actually be looking at the effects of "variable pricing"--something introduced by the big retail chains. Ever heard of it? Also, you have players like Wal-Mart. I learned recently that Wal-Mart, while effectively promoting the image of a large, low-cost shopping center, is actually designed (and equipped like no one else) to squeeze as much from the market they are in as is possible. Wal-Mart prices only stop going up when people stop buying, at which point they "roll-back" with a big yellow smiley face. I attended a retail training course recently where the instructor told us this.

[CDN_Merlin]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I just find that that value of our dollar doesn't buy us nearly as much as it used to.

[Sergeant Thorne]

Well, here's why variable pricing might explain some of what I think is an accurate perception on your part--it results in having to pay multiple times what certain items are worth, in order to justify extremely low prices on the most commonly purchased items that get people in the store. A store needs to operate on a certain profit margin in order to stay in business. Let's say it's 28%. Back in the day, you simply figured your prices across the board with this in mind. Today, milk, eggs, 2x4s, and quality power tools are sold at a sub-15% margin, and the difference is made up with insane margins on less common, or less "price sensitive" items--items that people do not price shop, or do not generally have an idea of what they cost. People are making as much money as they possibly can on the cheapest (most profitable) merchandise possible, in order to make up for the loss they're taking on the price-sensitive items in order to be viewed as competitive, and it's the big boys driving this trend (the little guys play the game to keep up). So you may very well be paying for a store's 50% margin (half profit), or 70% margin when you stop in to buy some items. You'll usually level out if you're shopping an entire project (in the case of building materials and hardware), but even then, more often than not, an easy third of it is profit if the "box" stores are doing their job.

[woodchip]

What most people don't seem to realize (because that would spoil the popular narrative) is that Iran is the most modern and secular Islamic country in the Middle East (even more than Turkey, which is sometimes considered European). Iran is the most western and the most like the United States.

I think you are mistaken. Iraq, even under Saddam, was the least secular Islamic country around.

[callmeslick]

Actually, Turkey has both Iran and Iraq beat....I think the point, however, that was being attempted was to state that Iran is the most inherently Western culture in the Arab/Persian world. That would be correct, if one looks at urban Iranians(rural folks, as they are everywhere, are more conservative and tied to religion), many of whose parents were educated by westerners or in many cases in western nations.

[Foil]

I wasn't actually making a general statement about Iran. I was simply pointing out that for women's-rights issues in predominantly Muslim countries, my understanding is that Iran is actually ahead of the curve (though still behind the western world). I've read that the women's movement there is fairly strong, though of course they are meeting a lot of resistance.

[CDN_Merlin]

We shouldn't be having these types of issues in 2013. It's sad to think that people want to live in the stone age still.