possible upgrade

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:10 pm

My wife said to me this morning, "why dont you upgrade your machine?" heh!
I havent upgraded in 4 years, but I bought well with my last upgrade.
Here's what I have:

asus p6t mb (vanilla not deluxe)
i7 920 (OC'ed at 3ghz)
Vigor monsoon 3 cooler
corsair 750w PSU
6gb corsair xms3 (3x2gb) DDR3 1333
GTX 670 4GB (only part I upgraded since 2009)

The system is running well, but since the wife is willing, I thought I should at least test the waters.

Would I be able to drop a more powerful processor on this mb so that I can avoid a new mb and RAM?
Or do I need the trifecta of upgrades: MB, CPU, RAM ?

If so, what would be a recommended upgrade (flying flight simulators is my main gaming need, which are notorious resource hogs)?

If I could just upgrade the CPU that would be great, but if needed, could probably scrounge up $900 (if I'm going to upgrade, I need a new case with better ventilation).

Thanks for any input!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:54 am

Hm, that is LGA 1366 based. You will have a hard time finding a 1366 CPU, but if you can go for it. Else you will have to get at least a new board and CPU, most likely LGA 1155 (LGA 2011 is quite jump in cost...) The RAM is recyclable, 1333 isn't the fastest tho.

Possible scenarios (things I have worked with recently):

Intel i7-3770, $290
Intel i5-3570K, $220

ASUS Maximus V Gene, $200
MSI Z77A-G45, $114

G.SKILL 2 x 8GB 1600, 1.5V, CL9, $125
G.SKILL 2 x 4GB 1600, 1.35V, CL9, $69

You should have enough money in that budget for a case even if you get all the expensive things. Right now is a good time to upgrade IMHO -- prices are low since the next generation of CPUs is around the corner and the current generation and chipsets are at their peak.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 am

If you aren't using one already, get a SSD. It will make a huge difference in the feel of a computer, even your current computer would probably start feeling a lot faster with it. Prices for some good ones are down, and capacity is up quite a bit (Crucial just introduced a 960 GB SSD, so they can be big if you really need it, but you probably want to stick to the 256 GB models such as the Samsung 840 pro which is a bit faster). I have a Intel 320 series / 160 GB SSD in my system, and it makes a huge difference compared to my previous reasonably fast 7200 RPM desktop hard drive. One good example is a malwarebytes "quick" scan: On my parents and my previous PCs which have typical modern mechanical drives the quick scan takes anywhere from 6-9 minutes, on this SSD it is consistently under 45 seconds. It is one of those things where once you get used to working on a PC with a SSD, you won't ever want to go back to working on a mechanical drive.

Keep in mind the vanilla 3770 CPU that Grendel linked cannot be overclocked, if you want to be able to overclock you must get a k series so that would be the 3570k he suggested or its big brother the 3770k. The major differences between the i5-3570k and the i7-3770k are: The i7 has a bigger cache, runs 100 MHz faster on both base and turbo clocks (3.5/3.9 vs 3.4/3.8), and has hyper threading support.

Keep your 670, it should be fine because Nvidia currently has no announced plans for a product refresh until some time next year and the 670 is 95% of a 680, the only thing faster is a Titan, but that is totally out of reasonable pricing brackets.

As for the motherboard, in my own system I have an Asus P8Z68-V which has served me very well, so I would have no trouble recommending a P8Z77-V for an uncomplicated ivy bridge based system.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:13 pm

Right, the 3770K is $40 more expensive tho (was assuming there's no need for an OC.) The i5 non-K is only $5 cheaper

2x on the SSD.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:11 pm

Thanks for the input and links!

The 3570k looks great (Yes, I'll OC it a bit, dont see a reason why not to).
The Asus Maximus Gene MB looks great also.
I guess I'll upgrade the RAM while I'm at it. Will that G-Skill RAM OC well? (I didnt buy well with this 1333 RAM...one of the reasons I'm likely only getting a 3.0 OC on it)

Also, from some of the articles I've read, it seems I wont see all that much speed increase from the 920 to the 3570 (some increase, just not a lot).
I dont think I've ever had a CPU this long without and upgrade, so I'm a bit surprised at the longevity of this 920.

I'm amazed at how much the SSD drives have come down. I'm currently using 408GB on my HD, but could trim this down quite easily I'm sure.

As for cases, I need one with good airflow (its hot in hawaii!), and is a mid size tower.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... alParent=1

The only problem with this one is that it's only USB 2. Seems that USB 3 would be better?

This HAF might be better since it has USB 3? (I am partial to blue LEDs

)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811119197

Any case suggestions?

And lastly, will my Vigor monsoon 3 cooler work with this new CPU?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:02 pm

You don't trim down your disk usage to fit it on a SSD, you split your disk usage between a SSD and a HDD. Big sequential files like videos, pictures, music, games, etc, go on a hard drive. More random access stuff like your OS/office/browser/utilities or smaller programs (and specific stuff you want to load especially fast) go on the SSD.

Nobody outside of laptops that can only fit a single drive use only a SSD for storage in their system, when it is a desktop pretty much everyone builds a SDD + HDD hybrid system. I have a 160 GB SSD, and 6 TB of mechanical drive capacity in my system. There is no substitute for a SSDs performance, but there is also no substitute for a hard drives cheap capacity, fortunately you can have both in one system.

You do not need to overclock your RAM with a 3570k CPU, K series CPUs are fully unlocked so you can simply adjust the multiplier (as high as 57x = 5.7 GHz) and leave your RAM and the remainder of the system clocks alone. Although the option exists so you can also independently overclock the RAM, but the usefulness of doing so beyond the 1600 MHz default is questionable since at best you are talking <5% performance differences for pushing as high as 2133 MHz. On brands, I haven't heard anything bad about g.skill, but memory is memory and there will always be a defective kit if you buy enough of it. I have gotten to like Crucial Ballistix Sport memory lately, in the last couple years I've picked up close to a dozen kits and haven't had a single defective one yet.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:17 pm

x2 to what Krom said.

Of all the G.Skill kits I put into computers in the last few years (~20 or so) none was DOA and only one gave up after about 2 years in a CAD workstation. It got exchanged under warranty by GS w/o any fuss. I'm going for stability in my builds so I never OC the RAM, w/ 1600 there's no need for that as far I can tell. And yes, your new case should definitely have USB 3.0 ports in the front.

For some visuals check out the Post your PC thread, I have the stuff I suggested running in my two main comps.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:17 pm

I could likely fit everything I have on a 256gb drive with room to spare, but you're right, might as well hook up my existing HD as storage.

So I'm down to a couple of questions.
The G-Skill ram states that you have to go into the bios to upgrade it to 1600, as it will register as 1333 if you just plug it in.
Is this easy to do?

Will this cooler work with an i7 3770k?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835702007

If not, will stock cooling work, or should I purchase another cooler? (suggestions?)

And then personal opinion for Krom/Grendel:
Do you think it's best to make do with my current system and wait for the technology to advance more in speed?

--EDIT-- one more question: My Sony DVD drive is finicky (It didnt want to read my windows 7 DVD, so I had to load it thru my printer DVD drive--it runs everything else great tho), so any suggestions on another drive?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:15 pm

Used to be common that you had to enter the RAM settings of higher speed RAMs in the BIOS manually (never understood why they didn't just added a SPD profile.) Intel finally created XMP profiles, making this pretty easy -- both boards support XMPP and the G.Skill modules come w/ them. Just select XMP in the BIOS, done.

That cooler is out of stock and discontinued, but it should work (not 100% sure if 1156 socket mounts are 1155 compatible.) The good thing about Ivy Bridge 22nm Chips is that they run pretty cool w/ a TDP of 77W

In a pinch the boxed cooler will do, I would suggest something a bit more beefy since you are looking into overclocking. These would all work (w/o breaking the bank): Rosewill ROCC-12001, ZALMAN CNPS9500, ARCTIC Freezer 13 CO.

Like I said, IMHO now is a great time to upgrade. The current chips are in their third iteration and have most problems ironed out plus the prices are right. There are also some definite performance updates in the newer chips -- USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, higher clocks, lower power. If you wait I would suggest to wait at least for the first refresh (should happen next year.)

If you only need a DVR drive, anything from ASUS, LG, or Samsung will do just fine and costs typically < $20. I got the older version of this LG BD burner, no complaints.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:02 pm

I have a lite-on Bluray burner as my current optical drive, but I've also used Pioneer and Plextor DVD burners in the past (And lite-on CDRW drives before that), I only replaced them because I bought faster/better drives. The quality of DVD burners these days has pretty much plateaued, anything in the $30 range with a major brand name on it is likely going to be fine.

On the subject of cooling, Anandtech just did a review on a bunch of popular coolers, but basically it comes down to the cooler master hyper 212 evo is enough for most jobs, is quiet and inexpensive. If you want to push harder than a 212 can go, only closed loop water coolers will really crank significantly better and even then it takes one with a BIG full copper radiator to really make it worth it (closed loop water coolers with dinky radiators are mostly a waste of time and money).

As for the wait or don't wait question, you could wait forever and there will always be something newer and faster around the corner. Like Grendel said, it is a good time to upgrade right now if you are shopping for one. IMHO your current system isn't *that* far behind the current generation parts, toss a couple upgrades (switch to a SSD for the primary drive and then double the ram at some point) and it would probably be fit to handle most games and applications for a couple more years without much trouble. The only way to really be sure is to compare benchmarks against a system similar to what you are looking at. Here is a comparison that is probably pretty close to what you are looking for and what you already have: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=287 (They also have the i5-3570k in bench, but didn't run any of the same games on it as the 900 series i7 chips, but the i7-2600k is close enough to make a reasonable substitute and did share some game benchmarks with the 900s.) What you need to ask yourself is if the performance boost is worth the cost.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:58 pm

Spent the afternoon reading everything I could on these components.
Decided to go with a Corsair Carbide 500R case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811139010

Having trouble deciding between the Arctic Freezer 13 CO heatsink and the Hyper 212 EVO. Are they pretty much the same, or is the 212 that much better?
The Arctic Freezer seems to be an easier install.
The Zalman is great but in the feedback many state how hard it is to install.

I'm a bit concerned with the Asus Maximus Gene MB ans it has only 3 expansion slots (2 PCI-E 3.0 and 1 PCI-E).
I'm only using a single GPU (the 670), and a Sound blaster sound card. Should I be concerned with the lack of expansion slots?
I use Grendel's 3dpro converter, but that doesnt take up a slot, just a space in the back of the case.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:36 am

The 212 Evo is the best performer of all mentioned sinks, very good price/performance ratio. The fan is its weak point, but that can easily be fixed.

I have no problems with the PCIe slots on the V Gene board. Similar setup -- a GPU and a soundcard (that sits in the x4 slot.) I'm not planning on running a 2nd GPU and I don't feel the need for a "spare" PCI slot -- I don't think I ever put more than 2 cards into a computer in the last 14 years

Looks like a nice case (esp. for $80 !), maybe a bit on the big (and heavy) side. Lots of room.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:18 am

Hah! Okay, that makes me feel better.
I cant seem to recall putting more than 2 cards in a case either....at least back to when I had to install a nic card.
If I did come across another card (not a graphics card, as I dont want to run SLi), I could use the other PCI-E 3.0 slot for it, right?

What would you recommend as a fix for the fan of the 212 EVO? (I'll get that one as I hope to OC this chip to 4.5 if I can)

--EDIT-- Does this DVD drive look ok?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827135240

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:54 am

I actually have an arctic cool freezer 13 in my system, in my old system I had a freezer pro 7 (revision 1). My main reason for getting the freezer pro 7 back in the day is because after I took down my water cooler I didn't want to have to remove the motherboard to put in an air cooler with a back plate, so I got one that used the standard mounting system from the top only. It is ok, but not as sturdy as something that mounts with a back plate, making sure all 4 pegs are installed and locked in is a bit of a chore and in the case of the freezer 13 it is even necessary to detach the fan from the heatsink in order to get it installed. As far as performance goes: the freezer 13 is silent at all times, while the old pro 7 had a slight whirring to it at full throttle (but was at a low pitch so it never bothered me). The freezer 13 keeps idle temps around 35C and full load rarely goes much over 60C, the pro 7 was a bit warmer but still never went much past 65C.

That DVD drive should be fine.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:04 pm

Looks like I have my build:

i7 3770k
16 GB G.Skill Ripjaws 1600 RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDeal ... bo.1249984

Asus Maximus V Gene MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131830

Asus DVD burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... llFullInfo

Corsair Carbide White 500R case
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Carbide-S ... escription

Corsair Air Series SP120 120mm fans (two pack)--for the top of the case--Case comes with one side 200mm fan, 2 front fans and a rear exhaust
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Series-Pe ... ries+SP120

Cooler Master Hyper 212 CPU cooler
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyp ... er+212+EVO

I'm still kind of debating between this cooler and the Arctic Freezer 13. I want to build this system myself (will be the first time, so I'm nervous about getting things right, DOAs, and having my system down for a considerable period of time), so I'm interested in what's easiest

--EDIT-- I read a few threads about the 212 EVO fan failing, which must be what Grendel is referring to. Seems like I can just use the EVO and if the fan fails, purchase another fan at that time. Or would it be better to get a better fan now before I put the build together?

I'll be re-using my current HD (SSD will likely be my next purchase), PSU (750w corsair), and SB x-fi.
(which makes me wonder if I shouldnt just get another PSU --this one is 3 years old or so-- and a SSD and build an entirely new system, which would allow me to keep my current system up and running in case I run into issues with the build....)

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:08 pm

Hrm. Any thoughts on these two items?

500gb SSD
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electroni ... ywords=SSD

Corsair 750w modular PSU
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Professio ... escription

I'm currently using 375 GB on my HD, and can easily delete 75GB of that, so I could install my entire HD on a 500gb SSD (which is only a little bit more than a 256gb SSD and a 600GB mechanical drive).
There's quite a price difference between the SSD drives...cant seem to tell the difference. (amazon ships to HI for free, so am saving a bit going with them)
It'll be tough to scrape together the extra $500 (but this will leave me with a working pc on my current system, which I can sell or give to my wife).

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:14 pm

Here is one of the best current consumer class SSDs available right now:

Get the 256 GB size of the Pro version and pair it up with your existing hard drive (or you can pick up a 3 TB hard drive for $135 these days). There are some good reasons to not keep everything you have on a SSD, mainly because in order to get optimal performance and endurance from one you should try to avoid filling them up to more than about 75% of capacity (a lot of people get the 256 GB drive and format it to 192 GB just to be sure). But beyond that, the vast majority of games do not benefit from loading off a SSD and pictures/music/video never benefit from being on a SSD.

I have a 160 GB SSD as my primary, it is currently at 64 GB used, 89 GB (57%) free. The only allowances I have made for controlling disk usage are: Downloads go to D:\Downloads (1.5 TB RAID1, 29% free) and Steam is installed on E:\Steam (3 TB single disk, 42% free). D: and E: mirror a fair amount of data between them, but otherwise stuff on E: has been backed up or is readily recoverable, stuff on D: hasn't been backed up yet. Steam and all the other games consume about 250 GB on E:, which also holds some virtual machine disk images and a regular system image of C:, otherwise everything on D: and E: is either pictures, music or video.

Trust me, it is a lot easier to split games/music/video/pictures to a hard drive in a dual drive system, than to scrape for capacity by constantly deleting stuff off a single drive. It also doesn't help at all that data is always getting bigger as time and storage capacity advances.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:06 pm

Replacing the fan on the Evo is very easy even w/ the sink already mounted. No problem using the fan it comes w/ and then later replacing it w/ something more serious.

Question about your X-Fi card -- is that a PCIe or an older PCI card ? If it's PCI you can't use it :/ (You could just use the on-board sound system, it's actually pretty decent.)

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Grendel wrote:
Question about your X-Fi card -- is that a PCIe or an older PCI card ? If it's PCI you can't use it :/ (You could just use the on-board sound system, it's actually pretty decent.)

I bought it in 12/2005, it's a Creative Labs X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 24-Bit, and my Device Manager says it's located in PCI bus 8, device 1, function 0
I dont know how else to tell.....I'm using an Asus P6T vanilla MB, and the sound card is currently plugged into the bottom slot on the mb.
I'm assuming that only a PCI slot?
Is there any other way to tell?

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:09 am

Seems the reviews of the onboard sound of the Maximus MB are good.
I dont know how they compare to a dedicated sound card tho....but I must admit that I've ALWAYS had a dedicated sound card in every PC I've had.
Is it time to just use onboard sound? (I must admit I have always had issues with the creative drivers...)
I have 2 speakers and a subwoofer, and a set of headphones (with a buttkicker amp) all funneled into my sound card.
Do you see any reason to think that this wouldnt work with an onboard sound solution?

As for the SSD/HD option, I guess I will yield to your expertise.
I am sort of a minimalist data keeper. I usually delete games I dont play anymore, and I dont have any movies/tv shows on my pc. Not even sure how I would get them, as the only time I watched anything on my pc was streaming shows/movies from netflix, till they messed with their pricing and I quit using netflix.
I was thinking the 500gb SSD would be good for not just the OS, but for my flight sim files, Office, etc.

Would a 1 TB HD like this one for $70 be a good idea (since I dont use much HD space -- I'm using a 600gb drive now)?
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda ... egate+1+tb

Seems like I'd be swimming in a 3 TB drive, tho if you think "stick with the 3TB", I'll go with that.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:09 am

Yep, that's a PCI card. You can tell by the size of the connector that goes into the slot -- PCI is at least 2" long, whereas a PCIe 1x connector measures less than an inch. Time to move on

I would suggest to give the V Gene onboard sound system a try before you make the decision to get another card. My guess is that you won't be disappointed. The on-board sound will handle your external setup just fine.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:10 am

Thanks Grendel. I'll let this SB die with my old pc. I did read a couple of good reviews of some Asus sound boards (for $60 or so), so at least there's some options.
I hope you and Krom make it to Oahu some day so I can buy you dinner to make up for all my noob questions

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:34 am

Yeah, the 1 TB would be fine.

I have Windows 7 Professional, Office 2007, a couple browsers, Windows XP mode and all that installed on my SSD, additionally system restore is turned on, hibernation is turned on, and the page file is also on the SSD. I also keep most of my word/excel documents left on the SSD, simply because it is easier that way and they don't take up that much space. So basically if you deflect downloads and games to a hard drive, everything else in a typical windows install doesn't require much space. I also recommend it because games and downloads are typically the easiest things to remember to keep on a different drive.

If you use Steam for just about every game like me, you should also check out a very handy little utility for people with multiple drives/SSDs called Steam Mover. This little application uses a couple tricks that NTFS supports to move most games on steam to a different drive while fooling steam into thinking they are still in the same place (so automatic patching and DLC / etc still works). I use it to occasionally move a game from my hard drive into a folder on my SSD to see if that particular game noticeably benefits from loading off the SSD (so far nothing has).

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:33 am

Is there anything I need to know about setting up two HDs in the system?
I've never had more than one HD.
I dont know anything about Raid and am not really interested in it. Just want to have an easy setup with no issues down the road.

Also, does this Corsair 750w modular PSU seem ok?
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Professio ... escription

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:04 pm

The PSU should be fine, I have lower rated ones in most of my builds.

As for having multiple HDDs -- my suggestion would be to hook up the SSD and install the OS. Once that's done hook up your other disk(s). That way nothing funny can happen during the OS installation.

If I'm ever in the Oahu area I'll certainly let you know

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:48 pm

Corsair PSUs have a pretty good reputation, it should be fine.

As for setting up a system with more than one drive, what I usually suggest and what I do myself is when I am installing windows is to disconnect the other drives. So when I initially set up windows on this system, I had 3 hard drives 1 SSD and 1 optical drive, and I disconnected the 3 hard drives before powering on to install. The reason I recommend that is because the windows installer has a habit of always installing the boot loader on the drive on port 0, even if you tell it to install on a different drive and BIOS is set to boot from that other drive first. I've seen cases where the boot loader and recovery partition end up on the drive that becomes D: while the rest is on C: where it should be. It isn't a problem that will keep windows from booting normally, it just looks silly in disk management and explorer when it happens and can make swapping drives a major headache. So install windows on the SSD before you physically connect the hard drive, you can slot the hard drive in to the case and route the cables, just don't actually plug it in until after windows has booted for the first time.

Once you have the drive connected, it will have to be initialized, partitioned and formatted, a quick walkthrough of that is here: http://www.ghacks.net/2010/09/15/how-to ... windows-7/

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:32 pm

Seems like everything is good to go, just have to order it all.
I've pushed my budget by $400 or so for the SSD/HDD/PSU, but it will give me the freedom to put this together
with no headaches if I run into a DOA or problems, since I will have my other pc up and running.
Looks like I'll try and sell my i7 920 system...no room for it, and that should pay for the $400 in extras ($500 seems like a good price?).

Anything else that I might be missing?
The HDD and the DVD drive are OEM I think. I should just be able to use the Sata cables from the mb for these, right?
I cant seem to find out if the SSD is OEM. I'm sure I have some cables sitting around, but have no idea what the SSD needs to
connect to the mb and the PSU.
I saw something on the mb video from Asus that I could connect the SSD right to the mb if I wanted? (something about USB connection IIRC)
Have no idea why that would be good or not.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:21 am

The SSD is a standard SATA drive, your motherboard should come with enough data cables and the PSU will have enough power leads.

The only thing you need to be careful about is making sure you plug the SSD into a 6 Gbps SATA port and not a 3 Gbps SATA port on the motherboard (it doesn't matter for the hard drive or DVD drive, just the SSD is fast enough to need 6). So be sure to read the manual/documentation before installing it, because it will detail installation and also show what ports are what speeds.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:15 pm

ReadyMan wrote:I cant seem to find out if the SSD is OEM. I'm sure I have some cables sitting around, but have no idea what the SSD needs to connect to the mb and the PSU.

Samsung drives are all retail. SSDs connect just like any other SATA drive -- via SATA cable to the MB and SATA power connector to the PSU. The V Gene comes w/ two SATA III cables, use one of those to connect the SSD to a SATA III port on the MB.

ReadyMan wrote:I saw something on the mb video from Asus that I could connect the SSD right to the mb if I wanted? (something about USB connection IIRC) Have no idea why that would be good or not.

The V Gene comes with a mPCIe/mSATA combo expansion carrier that can hold a mPCIe WiFi module (eg. this) and a mSATA drive (eg. this.) Just ignore that for now

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Wed May 01, 2013 3:24 am

One more question

I'm wondering about the Micro ATX mb...is there an advantage of this smaller board, to something like the P8Z77?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131820

The p8 277 has regular PCI slots (which I could use for my SB, tho this isnt a deal breaker), and is about 3" bigger, which is all I can see.
Is the Maximus V faster?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed May 01, 2013 8:25 am

Most of the major areas that determine the system speed are directly integrated in the CPU these days, so motherboards are basically sold on features only because the speed will be pretty much identical between them. The full size P8Z77-V has more/different connectivity, a different audio chip, a couple more SATA ports via some RAID chip most likely, DVI/VGA, PCI slots, more USB headers, etc, but otherwise should perform about the same (perhaps a tiny bit slower if only because it has more stuff on it, but would be impossibly small to measure because any difference would be far less than standard variance). You wouldn't want to use the extra two SATA ports for boot/OS drives if they are on an additional RAID chip anyway because doing so requires some extra complications from drivers (the native ports still work fine with no additional drivers though).

Basically MicroATX boards are ideal for simplicity, while standard ATX boards are for when you need the full suite of connectivity.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed May 01, 2013 9:01 pm

The Maximus is part of ASUS' ROG series of boards, they are designed w/ overclocking and gaming in mind (component, feature, included software, and BIOS wise) -- check here for some blurbs from ASUS. That P8Z77 should work for you as well, it's really a matter of personal preferences

Before buying it I would suggest you dig a bit into the features of both boards for comparison tho.

Why I like the Maximus:

- better VRM cooling
- more beefy VRM setup
- there's nothing on this board you can't control in the BIOS...
- smaller
- ROG (or Go) button (you will have to read up on that one

)
- debug POST display
- eSATA port

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Thu May 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Ugh. Having a tough time with this decision. Cost isnt the issue. It basically comes down to the expansion slots.
The only PCI card that I have is a Sound Blaster (and it's 8 years old).
I dont even know what other PCI or PCI-E cards I would use?
If the onboard sound wasnt enough (or it created issues with my buttkicker gamer 2), then I'd get a PCI-E sound card.
Other than that, what other expansion cards would I need/want?

If there's nothing else, why have all the expansion slots on the P8277-V Pro mb?
(I do like the RoG gamer first ethernet!)

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu May 02, 2013 9:34 pm

Don't over think it. For the vast majority of users, there are no other PCIe cards to use beyond that GeForce or Radeon. So much stuff is integrated into the motherboard these days that the need for additional cards and slots has vanished for the average user. Most people do not need network cards or sound cards anymore, and for non-gamers they don't even need the video cards anymore.

The people that do need extra cards are usually professionals or doing some other niche specialized task with the system, so they would have a professional audio card, or a 10 gigabit network card, or a giant RAID controller card, or a SSD array on a card, all of which are hugely expensive and come in PCIe cards (some exclusively in PCIe because vanilla PCI is too slow to support them otherwise).

I would consider giving the onboard audio a try, you could even pull your soundblaster and try the onboard audio that is likely integrated in your current system. I've been using motherboard integrated audio for the better part of a decade and it works perfectly fine (granted I'm using a digital receiver and an optical SPDIF/Toslink cable, which is sort of cheating in the quality department because the signal never goes through the amplifiers or digital to analog conversion on the motherboard).

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu May 02, 2013 9:38 pm

Like I said, I have not installed another PCI card besides a sound card in at least the last 15 years. With the feature sets of todays MBs there's no need for expansion cards in a desktop/gaming computer. I like the break-out volume knob of the card I got to replace a 1st series X-Fi so I moved it into my V Gene build (plus I just had spent the hundred bucks...) I don't think the V Gene sound system will be worse than you X-Fi -- 110dB SNR is pretty good !

Also, the V Gene audio features match you X-Fi and then some:

SupremeFX III, built-in 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
SupremeFX Shielding™ Technology
1500 uF Audio Power Capacitor
Gold-plated jacks
- Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted): 110 dB
- Output THD+N at 1kHz: 95 dB
Audio Feature:
- X-Fi® Xtreme Fidelity™
- EAX® Advanced™ HD 5.0
- THX® TruStudio PRO™
- Creative® ALchemy
- Supports: Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
- Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection
- Optical S/PDIF out port at back panel

(Note that the P8Z77 board has a lower quality system on board.)

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:47 am

Thanks for the additional input.
The only hiccup is this buttkicker gamer that feeds off the subwoofer outlet.
If the buttkicker doesnt work properly (I have headphones and speakers that I have plugged into the Sound Card, which is causing me to wonder if I can get it all to work with onboard sound), I will just get a sound card and install it.
I think I will just try the Maximus V with the onboard sound. IT seems like the better board, especially since I want to OC and I also want stability.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:47 pm

Shouldn't be a problem to connect headphones/mic to the front jacks, a 5.1+ system to the back connectors, and run everything simultaneously.

I think you will like that board.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sat May 04, 2013 11:48 pm

Just stumbled across this video after reading a post that the Ivy bridge CPUs need to be fixed to get lower temperatures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXs0I5ku ... embedded#!

Do I need to do that to my new CPU?
I hope not. Seems very risky. I'd almost rather get another CPU than take the chance...

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun May 05, 2013 12:18 am

That video makes me cringe. The guy may have gotten a CPU on the less clockable end, normally you don't take the IHS off unless you want to participate in overclocking contests... The 3570K I have folding 24/7 is currently at 57dC on the hottest core (all cores forced to 3.8GHz, 100% load.)

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Sun May 05, 2013 12:27 am

So this isnt necessary then? I read a bunch of posts that made it seem that everyone does this due to the high temps of the Ivy bridge CPUs.
I dont want to do this at all....

I was thinking that the only difficult thing I'd have to do with this build is to setup the mb in the case, apply the thermal paste (arctic silver) to the cpu, slap on the EVO 212, and then OC to 4.5 or so and call it done. The new case will have 6 fans, not including the GPU or CPU fans, so the airflow should be terrific. If needed to get to 4.5+, I could avoid buying the EVO and upgrade the cooler to the H100i closed loop cooler, or a noctua nh-d14 or get a Seidon 240m?