Idiotic things Our President Says

[woodchip]

So while you all were asleep at the wheel, Obama makes a speech in Mexico and comes up with this gem:

"Drug-fueled violence in Mexico is not entirely the fault of the Mexican people, he said. Instead, the United States shares the blame because much of the violence is centered around the Americans’ demand for illegal drugs and the fact that guns are smuggled into Mexico from the United States."

We share the blame Mr President? Yo got a frog in your pocket? You and Mr Holder share the blame for the thousands of firearms you knowingly allowed to "walk" into Mexico via your Fast and Furious program. Don't drag the rest of the American population into your "blame America first" ideology.

[callmeslick]

if you don't find the comments completely reasonable, Woody, you have your head up your ass. Seriously, where do you think the Mexican cartel money comes from? Obama donors? No, it is virtually all from US drug purchasers, and Obama is precisely correct. Were there no pot of cash to fight for, there would be little incentive for violence.

[woodchip]

Aww Slickster, did I get your undies in a bunch? Do you want to ignore the part about what I commentated on? Lets understand one thing about what you commentated on though. If the Dems didn't view illegal Mexicans as future voters then we would have stronger boarder security and less drugs smuggled into our country. But what the heck slick, you just want to promote America is the root of all evil in the world so of course you want to defend what el Presidente says.

[callmeslick]

Aww Slickster, did I get your undies in a bunch?

not in the least. One loses count of all the dumb assertions you make about your elected government. Why do you hate America?

Do you want to ignore the part about what I commentated on? Lets understand one thing about what you commentated on though

you don't really seem willing to understand much of anything. But, if you think Fast and Furious represents anything more than a drop in the bucket of the mass of illegal weaponry the cartel has assembled, largely due to lax gun laws in the US, you are a fool.
.

If the Dems didn't view illegal Mexicans as future voters then we would have stronger boarder security and less drugs smuggled into our country.

get real. Both Dems and Republicans have given lip service to such matters for years. Nothing changes, largely because there is big money to be made from the 'War' on drugs. Incarceration and law enforcement are big businesses and no politician wishes to address that. As for potential voters, and the tie to immigration(the single biggest factor in the growth and inherent strength of the US economy, historically), it seems your Republican masters are starting to get alarmed at the numbers. Too bad.

But what the heck slick, you just want to promote America is the root of all evil in the world so of course you want to defend what el Presidente says.

not at all, but I am savvy enough to realize that many of America's problems, worldwide are due to a long standing lack of willingness to admit we share blame for many international problems. Decades of allowing South America/Central America to provide the foot soldiers for the drug trade, decades of supporting regimes around the globe that harm their own people, decades of watching idly while greed and corruption bleed nations dry and then having our public officials deny our culpability has eroded trust in the US moral high ground. Thank God we have a President willing to attempt to reverse that trend........and shame on you, or anyone, who would perpetuate the past policies.

[Spidey]

Both governments share all of the blame for making drugs illegal in the first place.

[callmeslick]

yup, Spidey. Big money all around....can't pass that kind of loot up easily.

[CUDA]

Why do you hate America

I wonder if you sent a letter to the President, VP, Sen Reid, and Nancy Pelosi for the things they have said about current Republicans and previous administrations.

Some how I don't believe you did. So go ahead keep trying to demonise anyone that doesn't bow to your whims and act lke slaves to you idals and say yes massa

Now I'll just sit back and wait for you to call me a racist

So my qquestion to you is why do you hate opposition to your ideals? What are you afraid of? If they are so great they should be able to stand on their own merit and defend themselves

[ThugsRook]

support your local ecconomy ~ dont buy imported

[Will Robinson]

Here, let me stop this food fight with a simple solution.

Legalize weed, decriminalize possession and use of minimal amounts all other recreational substances.
Send funds freed from prosecution and incarceration of drug prisoners into treatment programs for addicts and prevention work. Allow states to regulate private production and taxation of recreational drugs and make the importation of recreational drugs a severe felony as well as selling any drug to minors.

Slam the border shut as best as we can, including a temporary use of military resources to hold back the tide that would otherwise swamp us due to the following law changes:
Amnesty for all illegal immigrants present at this time however, it comes without the right to vote for 20 years.
For future immigration, keep the border closed but open the gates and allow work visa's and visitation permits with no fast track to citizenship or voting rights.

[Jeff250]

Both governments share all of the blame for making drugs illegal in the first place.

Here, let me stop this food fight with a simple solution.

Legalize weed, decriminalize possession and use of minimal amounts all other recreational substances.
Send funds freed from prosecution and incarceration of drug prisoners into treatment programs for addicts and prevention work. Allow states to regulate private production and taxation of recreational drugs and make the importation of recreational drugs a severe felony as well as selling any drug to minors.

Bingo.

[woodchip]

Slick:
"you don't really seem willing to understand much of anything. But, if you think Fast and Furious represents anything more than a drop in the bucket of the mass of illegal weaponry the cartel has assembled, largely due to lax gun laws in the US, you are a fool."

The real fool is the one who doesn't understand the cartels have people in the Mexican police and military and get firearms from there. Let us also look at what a good little uninformed or willfull distorter you are slick. Here is where you get your ignorant statement, "But, if you think Fast and Furious represents anything more than a drop in the bucket of the mass of illegal weaponry the cartel has assembled, largely due to lax gun laws in the US, you are a fool.":

"According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States."

Now read that carefully slick but in case you are lacking:

"This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States."

So there you have it sports fan, now you see how someone like slick, who really does know better, comes out with almost Bidenesque comments. At least Biden is a motor month and can't help himself. Slick on the other hand, you have all the time in the world to post and verify what you do but choose to run with what the liberal blogs tell to to post. Sad really.

[CUDA]

But at least he didn't attribute a valid quote to the wrong person

THAT'S HEREICY

[CobGobbler]

Slam the border shut as best as we can, including a temporary use of military resources to hold back the tide that would otherwise swamp us due to the following law changes:
Amnesty for all illegal immigrants present at this time however, it comes without the right to vote for 20 years.
For future immigration, keep the border closed but open the gates and allow work visa's and visitation permits with no fast track to citizenship or voting rights.

This would help, but I'd say 10 years. Twenty years for a person of adult age is quite a long time to not get a say. So is this thread now about fast and furious...or what??

[Sergeant Thorne]

I think any amount of time is too long for an adult citizen to be excluded from involvement in their own governance. But obviously we can't have an influx of people voting themselves legal either. IMO another way should be found.

[Will Robinson]

I think any amount of time is too long for an adult citizen to be excluded from involvement in their own governance. But obviously we can't have an influx of people voting themselves legal either. IMO another way should be found.

Yea, I understand that but I think any number of a select group/race of illegal non-citizens being rushed to the front of the line at the detriment of all the others who came and applied for citizenship abiding by the law is too many for the democrats to be allowed to pad their constituency with....

If it is truly about bringing them out of the shadows the democrats wont complain. If it is actually about harvesting votes from latinos then they can all go piss up a rope!

Considering the democrats, including Obama have been advertising in Mexico with instructions on how to apply for all sorts of welfare when they arrive....and haven't been advertising in other countries... it is obvious to me what their true intentions are. But regardless of their selfish motives it remains a problem that can be solved so the forfeit-your-vote for a few election cycles in exchange for citizenship and a pardon is a deal the immigrants will like and the rest can suck it up and deal with it.

[Sergeant Thorne]

I am, to a great degree, a man of principle. I believe that sound principles guide us where our own inexperience and lack of reasoning ability cannot. To me having citizens without representation seems like a matter of sound principle betrayed. I can't disagree with you that it seems like a good solution to the bull★■◆● that's going on. When I find something that sounds good, but seems to be a problem in principle, I usually keep looking. ★■◆● the democrats, and anyone else who would contribute to the dilution of American principles of government for political gain. I've heard some of the Hispanics, such as the members of La Raza, believe it will end with the recovery of U.S. land that they believe they have a right to. Well, you know, if they do they do, but if not I don't see why we need to keep them here to pursue it. You know, if any of our southern border becomes entirely peopled with folks who owe no allegiance to this country, I think there could come a time when the rest of the United States really has no right to the land, and it would make more sense to settle the deed than to start a war. What do the folks along the southern border think of this? I have nothing but empathy for Hispanic people wanting to make a living, and I would like to see a solution that is not unmerciful to their situation.

I don't know. Maybe that would be a good way to weed out the La Raza groups and so forth--anyone who just wants to make a living can do so knowing that their children will be full-fledged U.S. citizens, who will have reason to appreciate our representative form of government once they receive the right, and anyone else can stick their head up in the mean-time and get it cut off. Maybe the best solution would be to give them asylum, and allow them to register so that their children will be full-fledged U.S. citizens. Anyone who doesn't want to wait can get in line with everyone else.

I'll have to give it some more thought.

[Will Robinson]

I am, to a great degree, a man of principle. I believe that sound principles guide us where our own inexperience and lack of reasoning ability cannot. To me having citizens without representation seems like a matter of sound principle betrayed. I can't disagree with you that it seems like a good solution to the **** that's going on. When I find something that sounds good, but seems to be a problem in principle, I usually keep looking. **** the democrats, and anyone else who would contribute to the dilution of American principles of government for political gain. I've heard some of the Hispanics, such as the members of La Raza, believe it will end with the recovery of U.S. land that they believe they have a right to. Well, you know, if they do they do, but if not I don't see why we need to keep them here to pursue it. You know, if any of our southern border becomes entirely peopled with folks who owe no allegiance to this country, I think there could come a time when the rest of the United States really has no right to the land, and it would make more sense to settle the deed than to start a war. What do the folks along the southern border think of this? I have nothing but empathy for Hispanic people wanting to make a living, and I would like to see a solution that is not unmerciful to their situation.

I don't know. Maybe that would be a good way to weed out the La Raza groups and so forth--anyone who just wants to make a living can do so knowing that their children will be full-fledged U.S. citizens, who will have reason to appreciate our representative form of government once they receive the right, and anyone else can stick their head up in the mean-time and get it cut off. Maybe the best solution would be to give them asylum, and allow them to register so that their children will be full-fledged U.S. citizens. Anyone who doesn't want to wait can get in line with everyone else.

I'll have to give it some more thought.

I grew up on the southern border in El Paso Texas. From 5 years old to 14 years old and then back there again from 18 years old until 22 years old.
I went to school at the University of Texas at El Paso and from some of my classrooms there it was at most a few hundred yards across six lanes of interstate I-10 and the Rio Grande river, which is usually nothing more than a muddy ditch in the middle of a dry river bed. Cross that and you were among the cardboard shacks on the outskirts of Juarez Mexico.

If you were still there at the school, or anywhere on the west side of the Franklin mountains, as the sun set you could see the border clearly defined by the clean white electric lights on the U.S. side and the dim yellow light that illuminated the haze of kerosene lanterns and candles that lit up the Mexican side.
And I knew that it was only luck of the draw that I was born on the right side of that border. Harvard on the Border we called it. Not because UTEP was an Ivy League caliber school by any stretch of the definition but because of the contrast that was so in your face you couldn't help but feel privileged as you look out across that border.

I worked in a cabinet shop where I was one of twelve workers. I was one of two gringo's, one of three who were citizens of the U.S., one of four who spoke any english and the other eight guys that were none of those things. They were also some of best people I have ever known.
Most of them had families that lived in the interior of Mexico and they would exchange their paychecks for pesos on Friday afternoon and ride a bus back to their dusty little hometown where they were received like rich conquerors returning with the treasures of adventure to treat their families and soak up a day or two of their loved ones company before riding that bus back up in time to work another week and sleep on a floor in a flea bag apartment in the bowels of the city until the weekend came again.

I grew up in my fathers house in the Coronado Country Club area and spent all my money on beer, weed, guitars, gas and concert tickets. By monday or tuesday I was usually broke but who cared, my parents paid for everything. At work, when I didn't have enough money to buy a burrito from the roach coach lunch vendors it was the guys from the interior who couldn't speak english who made sure I understood that half of their lunch was mine and they weren't taking no for an answer. They were the guys who always had a smile on their face, a song to sing while we sweat it out in the shop and would give you their last cigarette at break.
I know the mexican immigrants pretty well, over the years they were my friends, my girlfriend, my teachers and my bosses. And because of them I love the mexican people.

That said, I don't think they have a right to complain if we said they could have citizenship but had to wait to vote for a few cycles. And I feel like I know they wouldn't even think to complain, they would think that was a great trade!

As for La Raza, that is a different group right there. That is the product of militant community agitators. La Raza is "The Race" in english...as in the 'latino' race.
When white guys do 'The Race' they call it the Aryan Brotherhood....so I don't give a rats ass about what La Raza wants.

El Paso is a different place now thanks to the corrupt Mexican authority culture. The bribe and the threat of death rules supreme there now. My old neighborhood is apparently home to the rich mexicans who are no longer safe living in their big houses in Mexico because the mexican police are all on the payroll of some drug gang. They can't afford the constant kidnapping and murder so they moved north of the border. The deserts that we used to go hunting, camping and riding in along the border are all too dangerous to travel in thanks to what has become of Mexico. I don't give a rats ass what Mexico thinks. The democrats just want the votes, they don't really give a rats ass either or they wouldn't enable it to continue.

The little guy trying to escape that environment and work shoulder to shoulder with me is my brother. The culture they have created needs to stay south of the border and they have no right to anything here, they can earn it just like everyone else and do so joyfully every chance they get.

[Tunnelcat]

Aww Slickster, did I get your undies in a bunch? Do you want to ignore the part about what I commentated on? Lets understand one thing about what you commentated on though. If the Dems didn't view illegal Mexicans as future voters then we would have stronger boarder security and less drugs smuggled into our country. But what the heck slick, you just want to promote America is the root of all evil in the world so of course you want to defend what el Presidente says.

Ya know Woody, the cartels wouldn't be selling and making all that money IF NO ONE IN AMERICA BOUGHT THEIR STUPID DRUGS FROM THEM! That's Capitalism you. Create a market and someone will make a buck filling demand. If American drug pushers can't make the drugs, someone else will fill their quota. You should know that! We're are own worst enemy and I agree with Obama on that one statement alone.

Same with illegal immigrants from Mexico. If agribusinesses and service industries hadn't started hiring these people years ago for dirt cheap wages, they would have had NO incentive to come here in the first place. No jobs, no reason to be here. And if these same businesses had been required to check the immigration status of these people BEFORE they could hire them, they wouldn't have come here at all because no one would have been able to hire them. THAT "wink wink" under the table hiring crap has caught up with us and it's the fault of both political parties.

But now that Latinos tend to vote Democratic, they're persona non gratis. I'd bet you that if Latinos voted Republican in the last election, things would be the other way around and the Dems would suddenly be closing the border. But wait! The youth vote tends to vote Democratic as well, so guess what Republicans are doing now? Why, trying stifle that liberal-leaning youth vote, a right that was created under a Republican President, Richard Nixon. So if Republicans can't get an honest win based on their platform, they're starting to resort to more desperate means. Cheating.

http://theweek.com/article/index/212884 ... rom-voting

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/198105/ ... om-voting/

http://americablog.com/2013/04/north-ca ... dents.html

[callmeslick]

Why do you hate America

I wonder if you sent a letter to the President, VP, Sen Reid, and Nancy Pelosi for the things they have said about current Republicans and previous administrations.

Some how I don't believe you did. So go ahead keep trying to demonise anyone that doesn't bow to your whims and act lke slaves to you idals and say yes massa

um, how is that even REMOTELY pertinent to the discussion, and anything short of simple personal sniping on your part, CUDA. C'mon, you can do better.

So my qquestion to you is why do you hate opposition to your ideals? What are you afraid of? If they are so great they should be able to stand on their own merit and defend themselves

who's talking about 'opposition to ideals'? It is merely my observation that what the President said in this case was quite accurate, and further that to deny it is either myopic or ignorant.

[CUDA]

Why do you hate America

I wonder if you sent a letter to the President, VP, Sen Reid, and Nancy Pelosi for the things they have said about current Republicans and previous administrations.

Some how I don't believe you did. So go ahead keep trying to demonise anyone that doesn't bow to your whims and act lke slaves to you idals and say yes massa

um, how is that even REMOTELY pertinent to the discussion, and anything short of simple personal sniping on your part, CUDA. C'mon, you can do better.

if you don't like it then stop doing it yourself, it's a common practice that you like to employ in almost everyone of the threads you post in. don't believe me? Go back and review your posts.

So my qquestion to you is why do you hate opposition to your ideals? What are you afraid of? If they are so great they should be able to stand on their own merit and defend themselves

who's talking about 'opposition to ideals'? It is merely my observation that what the President said in this case was quite accurate, and further that to deny it is either myopic or ignorant.

first off my post was directed at you and not the presidents comments.
Second. your observation/opinion does not make anything the president said accurate. because your observation/opinion is not based on fact. Because it was his administrations policy that gave some of those guns to the cartels, but i see NO WHERE in his statment does he make mention if that. So a half truth is still a lie. what he is doing is tantamount to blaming the woman for being raped because of what she wore.
It's our fault that the cartels are violent because of the illegal and deadly drugs THEY supply us. SERIOUSLY?

[Spidey]

We learned absolutely nothing from prohibition…humans are so over-rated.

[Will Robinson]

... It is merely my observation that what the President said in this case was quite accurate, and further that to deny it is either myopic or ignorant.

I wouldn't call it "quite accurate".
We americans also buy a lot of product from other places and the filling of our markets demand for those products with their supply does not create epic gang wars where it is common to see beheaded corpses of rival gang member/product suppliers hanging from the bridges for the local commuters to see as a reminder that the 'company' owns them!!

There is a definite load of steaming, stinking, pandering packed into that statement of his.

[Krom]

How many wars have been fought over natural resources, water, oil, precious metals, farmland, etc... You can say we don't get violent over ordinary stuff that is on the marketplace, but if you look beyond the surface, we have been violent in the past to obtain stuff, we currently obtain things under the threat of violence and we will continue to do so in the future.

Also this:

We learned absolutely nothing from prohibition…humans are so over-rated.

[woodchip]

who's talking about 'opposition to ideals'? It is merely my observation that what the President said in this case was quite accurate, and further that to deny it is either myopic or ignorant.

So your reply, in defense of el Presidente, is accurate? :

you don't really seem willing to understand much of anything. But, if you think Fast and Furious represents anything more than a drop in the bucket of the mass of illegal weaponry the cartel has assembled, largely due to lax gun laws in the US, you are a fool.

I guess you didn't read my previous reply to your totally fallacious statement. But please continue with your "quite accurate" statements in a sad attempt to cover for your hero in charge.

[Will Robinson]

How many wars have been fought over natural resources, water, oil, precious metals, farmland, etc... You can say we don't get violent over ordinary stuff that is on the marketplace, but if you look beyond the surface, we have been violent in the past to obtain stuff, we currently obtain things under the threat of violence and we will continue to do so in the future. ....

Two things.

One, if violence is the status quo why does the president cite it as anything remarkable at all? He was trying to align himself with a select group of victims of violence and blaming it on us for a reason not just to make mention of the way the world works. Basically he is down in the polls with Latinos lately and this is campaign 101 reaction to correct that. He needs to win congress in 2014 to get his agenda through in his final two years

Two, the violence isn't perpetrated by us consumers or in our name or even falsely sanctioned as being in our best interest. It is Mexicans and Colombians etc killing each other for a bigger share of the supply so they can sell it to us outsiders. If there is a parallel in the other supplies we purchase....precious metals, oil, etc I don't recall the president making apologies to the small folk in those countries for the US citizens role in creating the deaths.

Now if the Saudi's and Iraqi's etc start showing up in America to vote predominantly for democrats I'm sure he will make room for them in his next pandering apology campaign....but so far he has shown that it isn't really the strife you suffer that matters....it's what you can do for him that earns you his faux concern.

[Tunnelcat]

Don't you get it Will? OUR DEMAND FOR DRUGS IS CREATING THE PROBLEM IN MEXICO. It's NOT the President's fault. It's the people's fault, US, and in OUR NAME! If the stupid drug addicts in the U.S. would quit buying the stuff, I can gar-an-tee the violence would soon vanish in Mexico. Spidey mentioned Prohibition. Do you recollect from history class all the organized crime and the mob stuff that went on INSIDE THIS COUNTRY back in the nineteen twenties or thirties, the murders, the gambling and bootlegging, all for illegal booze? Or did you sleep through that part? Outlaw something and the black market will always take up the slack. It just happens that Mexico and South America has the climate and lack of police interference to grow those drugs and that WE ARE VERY WILLING TO PAY ANY PRICE FOR said drugs. Stupid Americans. The only way to stop the drug flow is to quit using drugs in the first place. We're everyone's worst enemy, including ourselves.

[callmeslick]

[ if you don't like it then stop doing it yourself, it's a common practice that you like to employ in almost everyone of the threads you post in. don't believe me? Go back and review your posts.

why don't you go back and review your birth certificate. That answer was MAYBE tolerable for an 8 year old. "You did it first!! Neener-neener!!"

]first off my post was directed at you and not the presidents comments.
Second. your observation/opinion does not make anything the president said accurate. because your observation/opinion is not based on fact. Because it was his administrations policy that gave some of those guns to the cartels, but i see NO WHERE in his statment does he make mention if that. So a half truth is still a lie. what he is doing is tantamount to blaming the woman for being raped because of what she wore.
It's our fault that the cartels are violent because of the illegal and deadly drugs THEY supply us. SERIOUSLY?

if we a)legalized marajuana fully, or b)got a tighter grip on the root causes of rampant abuse of other drugs, or c)set up a medical dispensary program a la Britain, demand would drop. When demand drops, the incentives for violence plummets, as there is no real profits to fight over or die for. It's a pretty simple premise.

[callmeslick]

... It is merely my observation that what the President said in this case was quite accurate, and further that to deny it is either myopic or ignorant.

I wouldn't call it "quite accurate".
We americans also buy a lot of product from other places and the filling of our markets demand for those products with their supply does not create epic gang wars where it is common to see beheaded corpses of rival gang member/product suppliers hanging from the bridges for the local commuters to see as a reminder that the 'company' owns them!!

There is a definite load of steaming, stinking, pandering packed into that statement of his.

so, no real violence from, say, Colombia, or Asia(the two other large-scale sources that jump to mind)? Seriously? Wanna share your smokes with us?

[CUDA]

[ if you don't like it then stop doing it yourself, it's a common practice that you like to employ in almost everyone of the threads you post in. don't believe me? Go back and review your posts.

why don't you go back and review your birth certificate. That answer was MAYBE tolerable for an 8 year old. "You did it first!! Neener-neener!!"

I see you didnt deny anything, but let's just keep deflecting anyways. it seems like you don't like being called out. Not liking the View in the Mirror. this is fun lets keep it up.

you can go ahead and call me U-American now since that's what you were implying by the Birth certificate comment, WHOOPS YOU DID IT AGAIN

it's a common practice that you like to employ in almost everyone of the threads you post in. don't believe me? Go back and review your posts.

first off my post was directed at you and not the presidents comments.
Second. your observation/opinion does not make anything the president said accurate. because your observation/opinion is not based on fact. Because it was his administrations policy that gave some of those guns to the cartels, but i see NO WHERE in his statment does he make mention if that. So a half truth is still a lie. what he is doing is tantamount to blaming the woman for being raped because of what she wore.
It's our fault that the cartels are violent because of the illegal and deadly drugs THEY supply us. SERIOUSLY?

if we a)legalized marajuana fully, or b)got a tighter grip on the root causes of rampant abuse of other drugs, or c)set up a medical dispensary program a la Britain, demand would drop. When demand drops, the incentives for violence plummets, as there is no real profits to fight over or die for. It's a pretty simple premise.

and this addresses what everyone has been saying about the President comments how??. the President is still blaming the addict instead of the pushers that are killing each other to get to the addict. YA that makes total sense

[Tunnelcat]

the President is still blaming the addict instead of the pushers that are killing each other to get to the addict. YA that makes total sense

And he's STILL right. People need to look within themselves and TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY (your favorite statement). Someone who wants to use illegal drugs is not taking into consideration where they come from or who is murdered to make and transport them. All they care about is another fix. THAT INCONVENIENT CIRCUMSTANCE IS THE RESULT OF THE ACTIONS OF THE ADDICT, ie., people who use drugs for their own personal pleasure, without care, worrying about the consequences or the concern for others. The pushers are just filling a market need. They're a RESULT.

[CUDA]

personal responsibility
Web definitions
There is only one person responsible for your life and the vocation you have chosen. That person is the one you see in the mirror in..



So then by that definition please explain to me how WE OR the Addicts are responsible for the actions of the Mexican Drug Cartels

Someone who wants to sell illegal drugs is not taking into consideration where they come from or who is murdered to make and transport them. All they care about is another sale. THAT INCONVENIENT CIRCUMSTANCE IS THE RESULT OF THE ACTIONS OF THE DEALER, ie., people who sell drugs for their own personal pleasure, without care, worrying about the consequences or the concern for others. The users are just filling a market need. They're a RESULT.

Fixed it for ya

[Top Gun]

So knowingly buying stolen goods would absolve you of responsibility for the original theft?

[Will Robinson]

Don't you get it Will? OUR DEMAND FOR DRUGS IS CREATING THE PROBLEM IN MEXICO. It's NOT the President's fault. It's the people's fault, US, and in OUR NAME! If the stupid drug addicts in the U.S. would quit buying the stuff, I can gar-an-tee the violence would soon vanish in Mexico. ....

You are the one who doesn't get it.
The people in those other countries could easily grow and ship and sell the product to us without killing each other to garner a larger market share for themselves! We consumers don't value the product more because of how many people die trying to take over the supply side of the equation.

You whinge about personal responsibility in the other thread....how about here?!? Do I have a right to kill my competition in my industry and blame the customers demand for my product?!? Get a dose of reality!

The violence is NOT a result of the supply and demand! It is a result of how the suppliers CHOOSE to do business!! Murderous greedy people are the cause of the violence.

[Sergeant Thorne]

The pushers... filling a market need... a result... right. Where do you get that stuff? Truth is they will go anywhere there is demand. This kind of business (the illegal kind) is more successful with this kind of person (the violent/murderous kind). We do not bear responsibility for their assholes. Frankly the demand would be ★■◆● out of luck if they policed their side of the border more effectively. Deny that! Having said that, not policing our side of the border, or working with the Mexican government to solve the problem effectively falls to the federal government, so his ears were unwittingly laying the blame squarely at his own feet. He's been in office going on 5 years now. I don't see how he has any excuse for not getting results here. Or maybe the President of the United States has been too busy working on one aspect of the country (not a legitimate excuse for someone in this position). It's obviously politically expedient for him, at this point, to begin to address the issue in this way. Just follow the trail of bull**** back to the next bit of legislation that this administration has been wanting to push through.

[Spidey]

the President is still blaming the addict instead of the pushers that are killing each other to get to the addict. YA that makes total sense

And he's STILL right. People need to look within themselves and TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY (your favorite statement). Someone who wants to use illegal drugs is not taking into consideration where they come from or who is murdered to make and transport them. All they care about is another fix. THAT INCONVENIENT CIRCUMSTANCE IS THE RESULT OF THE ACTIONS OF THE ADDICT, ie., people who use drugs for their own personal pleasure, without care, worrying about the consequences or the concern for others. The pushers are just filling a market need. They're a RESULT.

Governments seem to be content with paying the violence price to keep a victimless activity illegal…why should some user sweat it?

Watch out tc...you're going to loose your liberals license...everyone knows that addiction is a disease.

[Spidey]

So knowingly buying stolen goods would absolve you of responsibility for the original theft?

Apples and oranges…

There is a victim when you steal something, there is no victim when you smoke a doobie.

There is no human right to acquire someone else’s property, but it is a human right to do with your own body as you please.

And at the very least if you don’t have the right to do what you please to your own body…then it’s sure as hell no business of the government.

[Top Gun]

No, of course no one gets hurt if you light one up, but someone could definitely be hurt in the process of growing and shipping the weed that you're using. Until the federal government finds some sanity and ends this useless prohibition on pot, it seems like a pretty good reason to buy local to me.

[Spidey]

When I was young, weed was 20 bucks an ounce, and nobody* was killing anyone to dominate the market…all of the effort to win the “drug war” has caused the price to skyrocket, and only after it became so ludicrous did people start killing other people to have the market.

*Yes there was always some nominal amount of violence.

Most of the people I know who smoke have been boycotting weed from south of the border ever since that stupid Paraquat BS.

[Top Gun]

I hadn't even heard of Paraquat before, but wow, that was all kinds of stupid. The "war" on drugs has been a failure for a few decades now, even if those who championed it would never admit it.

[vision]

…all of the effort to win the “drug war” has caused the price to skyrocket, and only after it became so ludicrous did people start killing other people to have the market.

Actually, it's not the war on drugs that increased the price, it's just good old capitalism at work. Because the market was so lucrative, more and more people joined it as an easy way to make money. But after a while there had to be a way for your product to stand out. So like good business men the weed dealers jumped into research and development to create more potent strands, flavored strands, whatever would make their weed better. The prices slowly changed to reflect this and now you have lots of "choice" when buying weed: different highs, different price points, volume discounts, etc. It's like how I used to pay %15 a month for telephone service but now pay $45 or more because the phones are different, the services are different, etc... Just business. The war on drugs has done little to change the price and availability of drugs when compared to raw market forces. You can still buy crap weed for $20 man.