NSA now spying on american citizens

flip · Post by **flip** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:59 am

I like the one that says we can be relocated. Fema camps anyone?

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations

http://info.publicintelligence.net/USAr ... lement.pdf

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:08 pm

Will Robinson wrote:I think if they want to be able to suspend all individual rights in time of severe distress then they have defacto rendered all laws null because all authority for government to create and/or enforce law is predicated on the deference for the inalienable rights of the citizen.

The 'right' of government to exert authority is not an equal to to the rights of the citizen....it can only exist in service and support of the individual right.

They can expect voluntary compliance from the sheeple and might makes right from the rest.

Best post I've read in a while. Right on.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:44 pm

Nice. What's next, corralling FBI/NSA/HLS etc. into a single organization named SS ?

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 am

It gets better!

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:18 pm

Wheeeee!

(hey NSA this one's for you: .|..)

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:38 pm

posted by a friend of mine on a fishing board:

Now that Congress has refused to restrict government surveillance of electronic communication by US citizens, one group stands ready, poised to plan the destruction of our nation without detection. Well played, Amish, well played.

CobGobbler · Post by **CobGobbler** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:01 pm

My question for all of you: How can any of you be surprised by this?

It just simply amazes me that you all seem to be so caught off-guard by this. Govt has been spying on American citizens long before the Patriot Act came into existence...did you all think the internet was a vast place of unchecked freedom?

(I hope they check this site. Many of the users here have all the answers to all the problems. Maybe they'll tell Congress at the next hearing!!)

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:16 pm

Cob, no surprise here......and, I've noted your comment and will forward it to the proper authorities.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:06 am

Not being surprised by the fact that this sort of thing was going on doesn't stop me from being pissed when it's brought to light.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:33 am

each to their own, TG. If I am perfectly aware of something, it doesn't really do much for me either way when someone reminds me of it.......

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:34 am

I'm not surprised.

What does surprise me is how many people readily jumped on the "it's only meta-data" bandwagon, which is clearly now not the case.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:23 am

They're watching you, and what you Google.

http://news.yahoo.com/google-pressure-c ... 00667.html

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:09 pm

Google is evil, how many times do I have to say it.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:39 pm

Google is evil. Ironically, did you know that Google's business slogan is/was "don't be evil"?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Ha! I did not know that.

Well you know the expression...You call some place paradise...

(kiss it goodbye)

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Google is evil. Ironically, did you know that Google's business slogan is/was "don't be evil"?

Google started out with the "Don't be evil" slogan. But like all things, when they get BIG, they always become infected with evil. It's the nature of things. It's the same for government and no different for corporations. Big is never better.

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:27 pm

Do not talk about my beloved Google!

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:42 pm

It turns out it wasn't mysterious how the police found out about the Google searches after all.

But more to the point of the thread, Google still compares very well versus other companies in protecting your data from the government. Unlike many companies in that table, they require a warrant (secret or otherwise) to hand over your data. So if you want companies like Google to stop secretly handing over your data to the government in response to secret warrants, I'd look at the laws that require them to do so. Otherwise, what would you have them do? Violate U.S. law? Move their servers to a different country?

flip · Post by **flip** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:29 am

That's the thing there. It's not like the NSA is or even can listen in on every single person. It's when you become a person of interest. I have heard they have computer programs that listen for key word combinations, so for instance if you were to type in words like "bomb" and "whitehouse", you could be targeted then. Otherwise, If your not doing anything wrong, there probably is nothing to fear. Don't get me wrong, this is ripe for abuse, and I do believe as time goes on, that's exactly what is gonna come of all this. This is Pandora's Box, and agencies like the NSA, CIA, FBI..........are paid to be paranoid.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:35 am

flip wrote: It's not like the NSA is or even can listen in on every single person. It's when you become a person of interest. I have heard they have computer programs that listen for key word combinations,.

your first two sentences and you contradict yourself. You say the NSA cant do it. Then you say they have the ability to do it, but only if you use key words. So if they can find you by your use of key words they ARE doing it.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:47 am

I meant they have to be selective, but I guess your right, if there are key words they are listening for, they must be listening to everyone.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:21 pm

To quote a certain movie, bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb ba-bomb.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:43 pm

Grendel wrote:Nice. What's next, corralling FBI/NSA/HLS etc. into a single organization named SS ?

Nope, name is SOD.

If there was any doubt: turns out the NSA is indeed spying on American citizens. Ownlife crimeful, doubleplusungood.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:39 pm

geezus, when did you all come to grasp that NSA spies on US citizens? What, do you think they've been turning off the signal on those Wallops satellites if the sources were domestic? They've been at this for a while, and by that I mean pre-9/11.

flip · Post by **flip** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:06 pm

hehe, we no like conspiracies

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:46 am

Lets look on the bright side of all this.

At least with the NSA we have SOMEONE in the government that actually listens to the people.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:42 am

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:46 am

callmeslick wrote:geezus, when did you all come to grasp that NSA spies on US citizens? What, do you think they've been turning off the signal on those Wallops satellites if the sources were domestic? They've been at this for a while, and by that I mean pre-9/11.

....By a long way... Here's my guess:

People just like to think of spying as the cloak and dagger affair portrayed in novels where the parties are known but very elusive.... and if you're not one of the spies you're not relevant to the story. Reality is that these days it isn't really "the Russians" or "the Nazis" or even "the Alquieda" that pose the worst threat - because it's so easy to survail (new word?) these days that known parties aren't as much of a threat as the random unibomber nut that pops up out of nowhere.

Does it bother me that the big brother is watching over my shoulder? Maybe a little. If you thought that you could live in a vacuum, your bubble has now been burst - I don't think it's so much a matter of things changing as it is a matter of technology making it easier for things to go as they have for a very very long time. On some level I'm happy to feel a bit safer thanks to the efforts. On another level, I'm consoled by the sheer volume of data that they're collecting.... as long as I don't make myself a target, I think that I can effectively hide among the masses, and don't particularly mind being an ID in their massive database.

I guess maybe I also feel that way because I feel confident that I could drop off the map if I wanted to.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:37 am

snoopy wrote:On another level, I'm consoled by the sheer volume of data that they're collecting.... as long as I don't make myself a target, I think that I can effectively hide among the masses, and don't particularly mind being an ID in their massive database.

That used to be true for me. But now that I have a DoD clearance (for work), there's no chance of me being "just another ID". I'm guessing there's increased priority on data about me.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:12 am

And what if your conscience or your political positions make you a target? Myself, I believe that the threats facing us are overblown where they are not artificial, or legitimately self-inflicted by unjust behavior. I don't believe creating a police state is a solution for all it purports to solve. The problem is creating a government where the only thing keeping us free is the goodwill of the present administration and the circumstance of easily-swayed popular opinion. Our government has far too many powers. It is not realistic for a free society to be absolutely sterile of threat or danger. It's actually not healthy. Threats and dangers need to be confronted and dealt with, or avoided by means of wise policy, not prevented through an extreme degree of control.

I've had some recent experience with administrative authority at my job, and it has taught me a lot about authority, but it has taught me some things about people. I could go one of two ways with my employees: I could put their balls in my desk drawer and maintain an iron grip on what they do every minute of every day, or I can demand and teach responsibility at every opportunity, while keeping a much looser grip with an eye toward the bigger picture in the long-run. If you treat people like criminals in order to absolutely control their activities, you lose everything unique they may have to offer, and you have no loyalty. Better to EXPECT responsibility, and be responsible enough yourself to deal with situations which arise, and err on the side of treating people like human beings. I think this applies to government as well, but with our government we're in the unusual position of deciding ourselves whether to be treated like human beings, and the decision I see being made is disturbing, and seems to be the result of extreme ignorance coupled with irresponsibility.

Have you ever asked yourself, Snoopy, what if there comes a day when you come to the realization that the encroachments on our constitutional rights through the correlating evolution of our government have been steered toward an ultimate goal not unlike, in essence, various historical tyrannies which seemed like a good idea to some people of the day, and all that was needed was a convenient push here and there by some incident of notable violence or threat?

Foil brought the DoD to the DBB? Maybe I'd better move my soap box.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:09 pm

Tales from a broken system:

"NSA broke privacy rules thousands of times per year, audit finds"
"Court: Ability to police U.S. spying program limited"

LEON · Post by **LEON** » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:26 am

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:35 pm

R.I.P. Groklaw...

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:23 pm

Journalism is now terrorism at British airports, at least to those journalists who wrote the revealing stories about our NSA's spying. They didn't even return his property after their 9 hour "interrogation". I guess the "authorities" don't like it when they're the ones being monitored by a free society's press. I hope all those idiots who were blinded by that 9/11 psychosis are happy that the boogeyman is being kept at bay and now feel safe in our Brave New World of government over-watch. By, by good ol' freedom. Ben Franklin would cry.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013 ... -greenwald

Heretic · Post by **Heretic** » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:19 pm

Next thing you know they will use Swat teams to raid Organic Farms. Oh wait that happen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/1 ... 64951.html

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:29 pm

And the entertainment continues: Open Secret About Google’s Surveillance Case No Longer Secret.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:07 pm

Getting a bit out of control...

DoTheGeek · Post by **DoTheGeek** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:22 am

NSA now spying on american citizens

NOW??

Who gives a ★■◆●.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:39 am

Grendel wrote:Getting a bit out of control...

I saw that one this morning. Holy crap, that's scary...

flip · Post by **flip** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:16 am

• The NSA describes strong decryption programs as the "price of admission for the US to maintain unrestricted access to and use of cyberspace".

Wow, so basically the alternative to them snooping through your personal and business communications is to lock down the internet just as China or Korea does. Nice.