State Education

[LEON]

In Germany, and in Europe generally, children is consider state property.
http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/G ... 308300.asp
I spent 9 years in the Government forced elementary school. Complete waste, and I want these years back.

[Spidey]

That is fucked up, we have the same kind of mentality here as well.

Don’t really know what else to say without going into a very long rant.

[Tunnelcat]

I wonder if that's a holdover German ideal left over from the Nazi Era. The state sponsored youth corps of tomorrow.

[callmeslick]

would completely disagree with Spidey. No one, to my knowledge, holds that ideal in the US, nor would it be close to legal. We have public schooling, home schooling, private schooling, religious schooling, you-name-it here.

[Spidey]

I said mentality, not ideal, Captain Nuance…

And yes we do have that “mentality” here in the US…and I can cite many DYFS cases to prove it.

The “mentality” is that the government and other people know what is better for your children than you do. (state ownership) Hell, there is a thread going on right on this very forum that proves it.

And yes, “sometimes” they do know better…but that is not the point.

[LEON]

I don't know what most people in US feel or think about this issue. But things like this can change, gradually. More the state takes responsibility for its citizens' life, more control it want as well.

[Spidey]

Of course, they go hand in hand…just like entitlement and obligation.

[callmeslick]

I said mentality, not ideal, Captain Nuance…

And yes we do have that “mentality” here in the US…and I can cite many DYFS cases to prove it.

The “mentality” is that the government and other people know what is better for your children than you do. (state ownership) Hell, there is a thread going on right on this very forum that proves it.

And yes, “sometimes” they do know better…but that is not the point.

those examples, unless you know of, and could cite, something I NEVER heard of are around care of children, not their education.

[Spidey]

Thank you for that confirmation of the obvious, but as I tried to explain, my comment was directed at the mentality of state ownership…not the “specific example” LEON used.

Now please go split hairs with someone else.

[callmeslick]

not splitting hairs......I don't think the concept of 'state ownership' is by any means accepted, nor do I think it is some sort of concept that is inherent in taxation or social welfare service to a nation, as Leon seems to imply.

[LEON]

We might disagree on the content of that concept. When a state must tax Paul to give to Peter, the state must control both of them, which mean there's no rights left (I always use the term right as a negative, not as a positive). What seems to be private property in such a society is not by rights, but by permission. The state can expropriate your property anytime, hence no private property.

[DoTheGeek]

would completely disagree with Spidey. No one, to my knowledge, holds that ideal in the US, nor would it be close to legal. We have public schooling, home schooling, private schooling, religious schooling, you-name-it here.

In agreeing with Spidey, I say that the mentality of a great portion of those who hold positions of authority is that state legislated cirriculums are an ideal. If you have had no interaction with anyone who holds such an ideal, you have been granted a unique and very lucky education, callmesick--one that few American's are privleged with. The American ideal is in constant conflict with American law.