World war...

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:34 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:...
The difference is that Bush/Cheney embraced it as a means to an end, a tool to use to get what they wanted, like close lovers embracing. I think that Obama is more fearful or maybe hesitant, of allowing the military full reign. But I don't think he has much of a choice when the generals tell him what they want him to do and what they think is needed in today's world of terrorism and unrest. He may be compelled to follow what his military adviser's want because they tell him it must be so and necessary.
How many Meclizine tabs did you take before you typed that....or have you mastered the effects so you can walk a straight line without them? 'cause for me, I'm dizzy just reading it!

Jeez, I had to Google that one! I'm not in the habit of taking drugs, but I might just try it the next time I get one of those hypnic headaches I get at night that tends to makes me vomit, as does remembering the foreign policy legacy of Bush/Cheney. :O=

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:04 pm

in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:20 pm

World War 3 has been averted for now. Obama has backed down. The vote he is 'seeking' from Congress will be lost and Obama can say he 'tried' but the American people have spoken. No war.

At least I can laugh and chalk up one more failure in Obama's long tally without having to crawl out of a smoking crater that his incompetance and hubris may have brought into being.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:46 pm

A great summation of Obama the warmonger and his administration:

“After firing the best and the brightest of our military leaders, cutting the military budget, reducing their pay and benefits no wonder our military in such a sorry and demoralized state. Our troops knowing that they are being led by a bunch of ass kissing synchophants, knowing that they will be left on the battlefield, knowing that the Spokes Idiot and other stooges at the state department will be leaking their battle plans to the enemy and knowing that no matter what happens they will be blamed or court marshaled. Well is this the way to go into battle? Obama is reaping the rewards of having no foreign policy except to diminish the honor and reputation of both his office and our great country. A president who is such a rampant ideologue and politician that he would sell all us down the river to win an election and that is exactly what he and his regime has done. So I say no to Obama. No war, no win, no grandstanding, no risks taken, no prestige, no praise and yes no victory. Just shut up and let Allah sort this one out. Not one soldier, airman,marine or sailor should give their life for this creep. First regime change in the USA and then we can discuss why it is such a good idea to back AQ and the Muslim brotherhood in the middle east including Syria. Untill then the answer is NO! ”

From: http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2013/ ... /#comments

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:10 am

perhaps it was the will of God, to U.S. agents did such unprofessional work in Syria. I am not less than you are afraid that because of the provocations United States in the Middle East, Russia will be involved in a major war. I'm in the reserve Russian troops and I do not want politicians to have deprived me of my peace life and mobilized me into the army again. I have no desire to again wear camouflage, to take up arms and go to war.

P.S. I was lucky enough not to participate in the war in Chechnya, although at the time I was in the military. In short, who remembers what it's like when you know that at any moment you can be sent to fight in the hot spot you will understand me.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:58 am

I understand where your coming from Sigma. You think everybody should leave well enough alone and let the Middle East sort itself out. I agree completely except it's turned into a huge tarbaby now (obscure reference:P). It's too late. There has been so much meddling from outside influence in the Middle East that the whole place is blowing up. It's too late to step back, since we and others have completely destroyed those people's quality of life, but any one nation that intends to do that on it's own runs a fool's errand. It has to be the International Community at this point.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:19 am

I'll be gobsmacked if Sigma gets the Uncle Remus reference, Flip!

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:48 am

sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse

You left out the subterranean zombie armies.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:09 am

sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse

You really think we have an army of suicide bombers? As in the kind that strap a bomb to their body and blow up along with their victims?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:28 am

No…he’s saying “they” have an army of deep plants.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:31 am

I honestly think there is a lot more anti-American propaganda in Russian than there is here towards Russia. I remember during the cold war, every week a new movie came out about us fighting the USSR or with some anti-communist slant to it. Whereas, in many years now that is not the case. I'm not sure the rhetoric in Russia has changed any. If their media focused on our positives instead of our negatives, Sigma would have a completely different view I think, even if he doesn't know who Uncle Remus is

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:38 am

Spidey wrote:No…he’s saying “they” have an army of deep plants.

That's interesting too. Most of the stores, and I mean like 99% of them are all owned by Indians or some other Middle Eastern persuasion. Mostly from India though. I was talking about this with the guy who delivers Coke and He said that they have also bought out a whole motel chain, I'm thinking it was Best Western and have completely filled them with themselves. They actually live there. Well, I got to talking about this with one of the Indians that works at a store, how Chinese and India are working together for dominance. His reply "Oh yeah, it won't be long now." Still not sure what I think about that remark

, but I do know that right around the late 80's early 90's, when all the other world events I was talking about earlier in this thread, was also when we got this influx of Indians buying up all the 'stores.' Now, if anything bad did happen, how much food do you actually think is in your locality right now? 2 weeks worth or less? I know anytime we get threatened with snow here, within 2-3 hours you cannot find a gallon of milk or one loaf of bread. Who knows, just a thought, but considering ole Golitsyn it's worth considering. There may be an army here tucked right under our noses.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:46 am

Spidey wrote:No…he’s saying “they” have an army of deep plants.

So if not for that list of deterrents we would have attacked Russia?!?

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:49 pm

Yes, I believe that is what he is trying to say.

There was some loose talk about finishing off the Soviet Union at the end of WWII, but never passed muster at the very top.

What sigma has to get into his mind is this…

The USSR was our enemy…Russia is not.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:04 pm

Who is Uncle Remus for me really is a mystery.
I'm going to surprise you, in Russia there are no anti-American propaganda. This is indeed the case, you can check out. The U.S. is much better mechanism for propaganda justifying their crimes. Is that you, too, can test for comparison. All it wanted Russia from the United States, is the observance of international law.

Spidey wrote:
sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse
You left out the subterranean zombie armies.

the key phrase is here an uncontrollability of the USA the international community. The UN died in Yugoslavia when the USA didn't consider necessary to coordinate the actions with the international community. Same the truth as you know. The USA sooner or later will surely run into punishment, as any street criminal who starts overestimating the opportunities from impunity. The question only in what price will be pay the USA for understanding that they aren't the Universe center.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:15 pm

I'm not sure you can say there is no anti-American propaganda, especially in light of that video I posted. It may be subtle, which is the best kind, but I can definitely hear it. Putin is basically condemning America in the same way and for the very same things as you are, except he uses McCain to personalize it, even throwing a reference to craziness in there. Enough comments like that, and the general feeling and persuasion gets through.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:41 pm

Such impression that concerning the USA you turn a deaf ear to any criticism. I too patriot of the country, as well as you. But still there are international communities and laws which regulate relationship of the countries around the world. Russia compliance them. The USA aren't present. You never thought what all that is told by the Russian diplomats concerning the USA, can be the truth? Not because Russia hates the USA, and it is simple because it can be the truth? It is difficult to you to take a detached view of itself, it is clear. But that do USA now, it beyond understanding for all already. It isn't necessary to write off criticism for hatred.

flip · Post by **flip** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:20 pm

No, that's where your wrong. I have been against our foreign policy since before I was even born. I think it was mainly fueled by self-centeredness and greed. That also doesn't mean I won't fight tooth and nail for my neighbors, should the occasion arise, but Anti-American sentiment is on the rise and we just keep adding fire to the flames. If a good reputation and a good rapport are earmarks of a successful foreign policy, we failed a long time ago.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:38 pm

back to the original topic, I see that the Arab League is calling for International response to Syria.......I say, fine, let them have at it. Lord knows we've sold them enough weapons and given them enough training to take care of issues in their own backyard. I'll make some popcorn and wait for the video feed......

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:24 am

Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse
You really think we have an army of suicide bombers? As in the kind that strap a bomb to their body and blow up along with their victims?

some posts are published with a slight delay, sorry for the late reply.

Will, I know that Russia has a specially trained group of terrorists in the United States, it looks like this practice, we are taught the methods of influence of the United States for its terrorist acts of Muslim terrorists hired as a tactical weapon on the territory of Russia, unfortunately. Don't ask me, from where I know it.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:38 pm

sigma wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse
You really think we have an army of suicide bombers? As in the kind that strap a bomb to their body and blow up along with their victims?
some posts are published with a slight delay, sorry for the late reply.

Will, I know that Russia has a specially trained group of terrorists in the United States, it looks like this practice, we are taught the methods of influence of the United States for its terrorist acts of Muslim terrorists hired as a tactical weapon on the territory of Russia, unfortunately. Don't ask me, from where I know it.

Ok, I won't ask but try to play that out logically in your mind. Suicide bombers as a strategy? Infidel government able to command Muslims to commit suicide in pursuit of the infidel's goals?
I think something is wrong with that line of reasoning!

Maybe, at best, we may have somehow given support to a group of Muslims who used that tactic for their own purposes and someone in Russia saw fit to blame their attack on the US.

And I think it is highly unlikely Russia has suicide bombers here in the US that are going to only go BOOM if the Kremlin gives the word. And to be able to employ them in that fashion, ready to die on a moments notice BUT on hold indefinitely AND to be able to present their existence as a threat/deterrent is extremely unlikely.
It doesn't even work as a bad cable TV movie plot!
I think the operatives Russia has here are more capable than that and more stable than an Islamikazi kept on hold. Now a Russian operative that straps a Muslim body to the bomb he is planting....that would work for confusing the investigation...and that sounds more like a Russian tactic.

Another thing to consider. I doubt you could get 5% of Americans to vote in favor of war with Russia....and most those 5% would all be over 80 years old and suffering from senility. There is no political will to go to war with Russia....no perception of any need among Americans to go to war with Russia.
My guess is during the next 50 years you will see Russia and the U.S. become closer to being allies than enemies.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:23 pm

not we began it. This U.S. is the first, who began to prepare the terrorists at their bases in the Middle East and send hired Islamic terrorists in the North Caucasus and other regions of Russia with the purpose of organizing war in Chechnya and terrorist acts in Russian cities, including Moscow. It is not we, but the U.S. still uses Russian Muslims to incite ethnic hatred to all Russians of any nationality, calling all Russians "Russian". Primarily, radical Islam. U.S. pursues only one goal - to weaken Russia at any cost. As in Syria. Even at the cost of thousands of lives of peaceful women and children. We know it. Nothing prevents us to act much the same way for the sake of national security Russians. U.S. crossed the line first when start use of terrorism as an influence on politicians in Russia.

I hope too that the U.S. government will be enough brains to it did not come to a global catastrophe.

CobGobbler · Post by **CobGobbler** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:29 pm

Just so you know sigma, if there's anything Americans hate more than Muslims, it's borscht. So yeah, Russia is not that big of deal.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:56 pm

Russia would be mostly irrelevant in world affairs, if it weren’t for that damn veto.

CobGobbler · Post by **CobGobbler** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:57 pm

I agree with Sarah Palin.

This is pretty accurate:

"As I said before, if we are dangerously uncertain of the outcome and are led into war by a Commander-in-chief who can’t recognize that this conflict is pitting Islamic extremists against an authoritarian regime with both sides shouting 'Allah Akbar' at each other, then let Allah sort it out," Palin continued

Sadly, this is spot on.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:47 am

Funny. U.S. attempts to discredit Saudi Arabia to dump the blame on them for his transgression ("Fahrenheit 9/11"), while the U.S. still continue to dance to the fife of Saudi Arabia http://lenta.ru/articles/2013/09/02/royal/
It looks like the U.S. is still willing to cooperate with anyone, even with the Arab extremists, but would not cooperate with Russia. Stupid idiots. Sorry if I allowed myself too dramatic statement.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:36 am

sigma wrote:Funny. U.S. attempts to discredit Saudi Arabia to dump the blame on them for his transgression ("Fahrenheit 9/11"), while the U.S. still continue to dance to the fife of Saudi Arabia http://lenta.ru/articles/2013/09/02/royal/
It looks like the U.S. is still willing to cooperate with anyone, even with the Arab extremists, but would not cooperate with Russia. Stupid idiots. Sorry if I allowed myself too dramatic statement.

I don't read Russian so I cant comment on the article but with regard to our working with the Saudi Royals in general....they are not the extremists in their country. They are a moderate small group of family and loyal members who run a monarchy/government that is the only thing keeping 22 million extremists from taking over the country, it's military, vast oil wealth and becoming a major terrorist country!
So, yea, we work with them while they walk a fine line of dealing with the religious zealots in their country that could send millions of people into rebellion turning Saudi Arabia into a much, much, more dangerous faction overnight!

And regarding the movie Fahrenheit 9/11....anything by Michael Moore is full of partisan political spin. So check whatever conclusions you draw from watching his work with alternative challenges that are made to it and then find the truth somewhere in the remains of that effort.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:56 am

I do not know English language. But that does not stop me. I apologize to everyone that you have read my posts on the bad English. Thanks to free online translators can I be aware of the news of the foreign press, and even interact with fans Descent on the English forum. Desire - a thousand ways. Reluctance - a thousand excuses.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:29 am

Why Russia supports Syria. And I can agree with some of the reasons. Our efforts in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan have failed miserably and ended up putting more chaos and Muslim extremists closer to Russia's borders. The U.S. has the luxury of having an ocean between us and them, Russia doesn't. We've also been guilty of our own despot support in Uzbekistan by giving Karimov military aid and in continuing to support the King of Bahrain after he violently crushed demonstrations in his country. We're nothing but hypocrites. I can see why Russia doesn't want to lose Assad and have our meddling continue in the Middle East. The Cold War continues through proxy.

http://today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/PRN-rus ... 28392.aspx

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:25 am

sigma wrote:I do not know English language. But that does not stop me. I apologize to everyone that you have read my posts on the bad English. Thanks to free online translators can I be aware of the news of the foreign press, and even interact with fans Descent on the English forum. Desire - a thousand ways. Reluctance - a thousand excuses.

I'm not saying I won't read a translation. But in the meantime, what I said about The Saudi royal family and Michael Moore are important facts that won't be changed by the translation of the article you linked. Do you equate the Saudi Royal family with "Arab extremists"?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:30 am

tunnelcat wrote:Why Russia supports Syria. And I can agree with some of the reasons. Our efforts in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan have failed miserably and ended up putting more chaos and Muslim extremists closer to Russia's borders. The U.S. has the luxury of having an ocean between us and them, Russia doesn't. We've also been guilty of our own despot support in Uzbekistan by giving Karimov military aid and in continuing to support the King of Bahrain after he violently crushed demonstrations in his country. We're nothing but hypocrites. I can see why Russia doesn't want to lose Assad and have our meddling continue in the Middle East. The Cold War continues through proxy.

http://today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/PRN-rus ... 28392.aspx

My God, it's impossible. Russia does not support the political regime in Syria. Russia supports and protects all countries, which was attacked the United States against all norms of international law, violating the agreement, and spat on the opinion of the international community in the world.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:32 am

Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:I do not know English language. But that does not stop me. I apologize to everyone that you have read my posts on the bad English. Thanks to free online translators can I be aware of the news of the foreign press, and even interact with fans Descent on the English forum. Desire - a thousand ways. Reluctance - a thousand excuses.
I'm not saying I won't read a translation. But in the meantime, what I said about The Saudi royal family and Michael Moore are important facts that won't be changed by the translation of the article you linked. Do you equate the Saudi Royal family with "Arab extremists"?

Find a way to translate the article, you will understand much.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:50 am

sigma wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:I do not know English language. But that does not stop me. I apologize to everyone that you have read my posts on the bad English. Thanks to free online translators can I be aware of the news of the foreign press, and even interact with fans Descent on the English forum. Desire - a thousand ways. Reluctance - a thousand excuses.
I'm not saying I won't read a translation. But in the meantime, what I said about The Saudi royal family and Michael Moore are important facts that won't be changed by the translation of the article you linked. Do you equate the Saudi Royal family with "Arab extremists"?
Find a way to translate the article, you will understand much.

I just read it. I didn't learn anything new. I have no problems with our working with the Saudis. Yes we created al Queda by not thinking what would happen after the CIA left Afghanastan... I don't think that mistake means letting the Soviets have their way was a better choice however! It just means our CIA and President Carter weren't very smart.

Also, you just said to tunnelcat that 'Russia doesn't support the political regime in Syria'.
How can you possibly believe that? Russia is a steadfast supporter! You have a military base there according to the very article you had me translate and read! And Russia has always provided weapons and advisors to them and stands in defense of the Syrian regime in the UN!

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:53 pm

sigma wrote:My God, it's impossible. Russia does not support the political regime in Syria. Russia supports and protects all countries, which was attacked the United States against all norms of international law, violating the agreement, and spat on the opinion of the international community in the world.

Oh, I don't think it means that Russia "supports" Assad. I think Russia is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Putin is holding his nose and allowing Assad to remain because there are no better options if he were to go. The area is on the verge of chaos. Putin's against a bunch of terrorists taking over Syria IF Assad is ever overthrown, which is what would probably happen.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:35 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:I do not know English language. But that does not stop me. I apologize to everyone that you have read my posts on the bad English. Thanks to free online translators can I be aware of the news of the foreign press, and even interact with fans Descent on the English forum. Desire - a thousand ways. Reluctance - a thousand excuses.
I'm not saying I won't read a translation. But in the meantime, what I said about The Saudi royal family and Michael Moore are important facts that won't be changed by the translation of the article you linked. Do you equate the Saudi Royal family with "Arab extremists"?
Find a way to translate the article, you will understand much.
I just read it. I didn't learn anything new. I have no problems with our working with the Saudis. Yes we created al Queda by not thinking what would happen after the CIA left Afghanastan... I don't think that mistake means letting the Soviets have their way was a better choice however! It just means our CIA and President Carter weren't very smart.

Also, you just said to tunnelcat that 'Russia doesn't support the political regime in Syria'.
How can you possibly believe that? Russia is a steadfast supporter! You have a military base there according to the very article you had me translate and read! And Russia has always provided weapons and advisors to them and stands in defense of the Syrian regime in the UN!

you are so easily say that you have created Al Qaeda... Are you trying to justify the United States, they are still using the Islamic religion to teach Muslim terrorism? All possible methods to counteract this policy has long been created in Russia. You did inattentively read my posts. All right. Let us turn to serious facts. U.S. loses credibility in the world by the fact of violation of the rules of the game, which they and installed. No matter how many more NATO bases and air defenses have not been around Russia, in violation of all international agreements, as you know, that means no defense can't catch all ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads. Even the power of those missiles that will penetrate through the missile defense, enough to turn the territory of the United States into a radioactive desert. Ask any military expert, what would happen if the U.S. cowboy foolhardiness bring to a nuclear war. It will be a big fucкing all over the planet. Have your a$$ politicians instead of the head or what? And your military generals lost their minds?

If a sober assessment of the situation, it becomes clear, the United States of bending over backwards to make Russia the first to pull the trigger. While their efforts were not successful.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:45 pm

tunnelcat wrote:
sigma wrote:My God, it's impossible. Russia does not support the political regime in Syria. Russia supports and protects all countries, which was attacked the United States against all norms of international law, violating the agreement, and spat on the opinion of the international community in the world.
Oh, I don't think it means that Russia "supports" Assad. I think Russia is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Putin is holding his nose and allowing Assad to remain because there are no better options if he were to go. The area is on the verge of chaos. Putin's against a bunch of terrorists taking over Syria IF Assad is ever overthrown, which is what would probably happen.

wherever there appear CIA agents, there begins chaos, civil war and the mountains of corpses of civilians, which is politicians in Washington called the "side effect" of "peaceful" military operations.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:03 pm

Sigma, I don't try to justify anything. I try to speak the truth.
I think a young bin Ladin created al Queda as a way to keep fighting against all forms of threats to his fundamental views of Islam.

He went to Peshawar where he and his fellow arabs staged their efforts from, to help the mujahideen to repel the Soviets from Afgahnastan. When the Soviets retreated the CIA pulled out. It left him full of fight with no one to fight against. His first stated goal at that point was to return to their home countries and fight against their own 'muslim' leaders because they were, in his opinion, not true Muslims. They were corrupt with power and western influence. Al Queda is not, nor was it ever a tool for the US to use against Russia. Nor is there any other Islamic group that simply serves the US desires.

So in the sense that we were working through the arabs and mujahideen against the Soviets by giving them weapons and millions of dollars to fight we are responsible for bin Ladin's inspiration to create al Queda.

Im sure we have aided similar Muslim factions to oppose the Russians preferred people in your part of the world when the opportunity presented itself to us, and that opposition would serve our goals, but that is no different than Russia's aiding numerous terrorist states that oppose the US!

I'm not trying to hide anything or make excuses but I think you are preaching the propaganda line pretty heavily when you try to say the US is alone in taking these kind of steps. The Cold War has always been a proxy war and it takes two sides to wage it. We both have used others to cause our adversaries to have to defend against the expansion of each others influence. That is the truth of it.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:20 am

sigma wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:in general that, uncontrollability of the USA neither the international laws, nor opinions of other countries, speaks only about one. If Russia had no agents in the governmental organizations of the USA, enormous nuclear potential, and other cunning types of weapon for example capable for some hours to turn all artificial satellites of Earth in a lot of garbage, army of own suicide bombers from among citizens of the USA, and many other ways to affect policy of the USA, Russia would be attacked long ago under what some ridiculous excuse
You really think we have an army of suicide bombers? As in the kind that strap a bomb to their body and blow up along with their victims?
some posts are published with a slight delay, sorry for the late reply.

Will, I know that Russia has a specially trained group of terrorists in the United States, it looks like this practice, we are taught the methods of influence of the United States for its terrorist acts of Muslim terrorists hired as a tactical weapon on the territory of Russia, unfortunately. Don't ask me, from where I know it.

Ah, that clears up a few things. So what you are say is the Russian Govt. is responsible for the Boston Bombers.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:05 am

Already there are opinions that I here am engaged in the anti-American propaganda . Therefore if next time the USA will too accuse me of explosion in Boston, I won't be surprised. Official statements of the USA can't be trusted as all were convinced long ago.

Barack Obama is a hostage policy of the U.S. Congress. It is the Congress of the USA it is necessary to judge already long ago in the European court on human rights and in the Hague tribunal for crimes against humanity in other countries. And for many, many more.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:33 am

sigma, you seem to ignore all references to Russia being just as guilty of the same or similar offenses.
Do you disagree with the assessment that Russia asserts it's influence and spreads it by meddling in the affairs of other states spurring them to provoke the US and other 'western' democracies, funding and training and supplying those states that are antagonistic to those western democracies?

I find it hard to be concerned with the moral outrage at my country expressed by anyone who refuses to recognize their own country's guilt in committing the same offenses. Maybe Russia isn't as powerful and influential as the US but it is still a major player in the game and they certainly have scored a number of goals in the 'game'.