hiring new employees

[Spidey]

If anybody thinks they have a right to be so cynical these days because their parents and other older people are asshats, then they need a large dose of reality…the older people before me were starting world wars, and the older people before them were burning people at the stake. etc

Selfish punks need to spend a few decades in the trenches trying to make the world a better place, before they can earn the right to be that cynical.

[vision]

If anybody thinks they have a right to be so cynical these days because their parents and other older people are asshats, then they need a large dose of reality…the older people before me were starting world wars, and the older people before them were burning people at the stake. etc

Selfish punks need to spend a few decades in the trenches trying to make the world a better place, before they can earn the right to be that cynical.

I somewhat agree but I don't think holding this perspective does any good. I also don't believe there is an age limit on cynicism. And I really believe kids today are seeing the world though a perspective many older persons can't wrap their brain around. I am going to guess it is because we are now in the information age.

When I was a kid, the information I got came through parents and teachers, then later my peers who had similar teachers and similar parents. Television was comparatively restrictive with few, largely controlled/censored channels. Today, kids are plugged in from birth to a more diverse, largely uncensored world. The amount of information they take in is unfathomably greater than anyone born before Windows 95. There is no buffer or illusions about the world. I think they are making decisions given what they are exposed to: the raw truth about humanity.

I imagine their future like a beautiful kite whose string is tangled from generations of people trying to remove the knots but making it worse. They have never seen it fly so they don't see why it is worth the effort to untangle the string. Either way, I don't judge them for their decisions.

[callmeslick]

good golly,Vision, that last paragraph was entirely too literary and evocative to be on the E and C forum!!!



Well done.

[woodchip]

good golly,Vision, that last paragraph was entirely too literary and evocative to be on the E and C forum!!!



Well done.

Yeah, we're all dolts here and slick is reveling in the mud he squirms around in.

[callmeslick]

well compared to your complete misread of your own link in another thread, it sort of stood out as exemplary, I must admit.

[woodchip]

Ummm the only one misreading is you.

[callmeslick]

check again, I posted the text for all to evaluate.

[woodchip]

Yeah check...and then re-read OP to compare it too.

[Spidey]

Straight out of the mouth of newly elected Senator Cory Booker….

“This generation has no right to indulge in cynicism”

That’s only part of the quote, I would have given more but my shorthand is non-existent.

Check PBS’s NewsHour for the entire thing…it was funny because he said something like “as we look at history”…so I had to post.

[BUBBALOU]

CUDA - unfortunately the people who have the qualifications you desire are working at 3 different minimum wage jobs and they can not afford to miss one shift for an interview, these same people were weeded off unemployment 2-3 years ago and no longer have phone nor internet to continue reporting their job status ( unemployment rate is so much higher than they claim )

Where are you posting for your openings, contact your local VA they will fill your spots with reliable workers that are well qualified.

Now for the rest of you... Move out of your momma's house!

[Tunnelcat]

Tell that to my neighbors who are coddling their now 28 year old son, who dresses like a white gang banger in a hoody, doesn't work that I can tell, and goes out for coffee in his parent provided car, everyday. Their daughter already went to college and got married long ago. At least one was successful.

Oh and CUDA, I wouldn't go with the stealing or bribing an employee from other dealerships route. If you got a guy willing to change jobs for money, he's probably do the same to you if someone else bribed him with even more money. No loyalty.

[Heretic]

I know where I work we run through a bunch of prospective employees between my clock number and the one below me are 60 apart and yes it was 60 people between us. The older ones stay while the younger ones run off. In the 3 years I've work for this company I seen more than few hundred come and go. It's a good job not hard at all but it seems the younger ones want something more than 15 dollars an hour to start.

[callmeslick]

as for the loyalty thing.....frankly, I have seen little by way of employer loyalty to employees, so it seems a two-way street with everyone for themselves these days.

[vision]

It's a good job not hard at all but it seems the younger ones want something more than 15 dollars an hour to start.

There is still this sad idea in America that kids are adults when they reach 18 and expected to support themselves like their parents did at their age. But this is a different world. Kids out of highschool would need to make much more than minimum wage to do what their parents did before them. There just aren't many jobs like that available. This is why kids are living at home for another 10 years. They aren't lazy, they just don't have the resumes to to live on their own and support a family. It's not the 1950's any more. You can't just get a job out of high school that gives you good wages, training, and a pension plan like my parents and grandparents had.

as for the loyalty thing.....frankly, I have seen little by way of employer loyalty to employees, so it seems a two-way street with everyone for themselves these days.

Quoted just to agree. This weekend a friend of mine got offered a position with a 40k increase in salary. They want him to start in two weeks (he's going to take it of course). We had a discussion about the standard two week notice and both agree that two weeks is never enough time for an employer to fill the shoes we wear. It always seems like you are screwing over your boss. But the flip side of that is you will never, ever get two weeks notice before being terminated. Business is business and loyalty only needs to go as far as a paycheck. That's the hard truth of the world even though a good job can feel like so much more.

[Heretic]

I was pointing at a job starts at 15 dollars this is way above the national poverty line for a single person almost triple. Not to mention that there are benefits like health care and retirement short term disability, hearing, and vision.

As for what older people did with the same amount money, you can blame that on Government and inflation over the pass 60 years

[vision]

I was pointing at a job starts at 15 dollars...

Oh right, that might have more to do with the fact most people don't settle into careers until much later these days, along with not starting families until later, and buying houses until later, and so on. Could be part of a cultural reaction to a number of things that can't be easily chalked up to "kids nowadays."

[woodchip]

I was pointing at a job starts at 15 dollars...

Oh right, that might have more to do with the fact most people don't settle into careers until much later these days, along with not starting families until later, and buying houses until later, and so on. Could be part of a cultural reaction to a number of things that can't be easily chalked up to "kids nowadays."

What makes you think we were jumping into marriage back in the 50's and 60's. Were you there?

[CUDA]

so after 3 months I had 3 decent applicants.

#1. won't return my phone calls (guess he doesn't want to work)
#2. failed a piss test ( guess he missed the part where I told him he needs to pass a piss test)
#3. failed his background check ( I guess he missed the part on his application where it asks you, have you ever been convicted of a felony) he left it blank and the correct answer was 3

its not like I didn't tell these guys. you need to be able to pass these tests. can you do that?? and they answer yes

so after 3 months I'm back to square 1

[Jeff250]

In defense of #2, you don't always know if you're going to pass the piss test before you take it.

[CUDA]

In defense of #2, you don't always know if you're going to pass the piss test before you take it.

There is no defense..... dont lie to me and say you can pass it, and we'll move on. These thing cost money. I should send him a bill.

[vision]

What makes you think we were jumping into marriage back in the 50's and 60's. Were you there?

I didn't have to be there, that data is readily available. Over the last half century people are staying in school longer and putting off marriage and families until later. It's not just the United States either, but most of the developed world. Culturally we have age-related expectations that don't necessarily match up with reality. With regards to employment, people today are developing skills in different areas than in the past. This possibly accounts for some of the problems CUDA has and Heretic has witnessed.

[Jeff250]

There is no defense..... dont lie to me and say you can pass it, and we'll move on. These thing cost money. I should send him a bill.

Which drug test did he fail?

[woodchip]

What makes you think we were jumping into marriage back in the 50's and 60's. Were you there?

I didn't have to be there, that data is readily available. Over the last half century people are staying in school longer and putting off marriage and families until later. It's not just the United States either, but most of the developed world. Culturally we have age-related expectations that don't necessarily match up with reality. With regards to employment, people today are developing skills in different areas than in the past. This possibly accounts for some of the problems CUDA has and Heretic has witnessed.

And what data is that? Or are you just giving a lazy reply.

[callmeslick]

so after 3 months I had 3 decent applicants.

#1. won't return my phone calls (guess he doesn't want to work)really? maybe he got a better offer
#2. failed a piss test ( guess he missed the part where I told him he needs to pass a piss test)lots of folks fail the weed part, convinced they will pass
#3. failed his background check ( I guess he missed the part on his application where it asks you, have you ever been convicted of a felony) he left it blank and the correct answer was 3 no excuse here

its not like I didn't tell these guys. you need to be able to pass these tests. can you do that?? and they answer yes

so after 3 months I'm back to square 1

I'm sure it's frustrating, CUDA. As the economy improves, albeit slowly, competition WILL heat up, and from what I've seen, the talent level out there has sunk a bit over the past generation. I generally observe things like basic communication skills, but I suspect it holds true across the board. Too many complex reasons can account for that one.

[CUDA]

so after 3 months I had 3 decent applicants.

#1. won't return my phone calls (guess he doesn't want to work)really? maybe he got a better offer common courtesy would be to call me and tell me "thanks I already have an offer". it's what I would do
#2. failed a piss test ( guess he missed the part where I told him he needs to pass a piss test)lots of folks fail the weed part, convinced they will pass So they deceive themselves, and in the process waste my time and cost me money.. NICE
#3. failed his background check ( I guess he missed the part on his application where it asks you, have you ever been convicted of a felony) he left it blank and the correct answer was 3 no excuse here Ya I thought the same thing

its not like I didn't tell these guys. you need to be able to pass these tests. can you do that?? and they answer yes

so after 3 months I'm back to square 1

I'm sure it's frustrating, CUDA. As the economy improves, albeit slowly, competition WILL heat up, and from what I've seen, the talent level out there has sunk a bit over the past generation. I generally observe things like basic communication skills, but I suspect it holds true across the board. Too many complex reasons can account for that one.

I'm not sure. I think this industry is dying. there are no young bodymen anymore. younger people now days are making their living with a PC, not with a craft. 10 years ago a good tech could make 80-90 K a year, but with all the regulation and the insurance companies tightening the screws on us, they are now only making in the 50's plus my overhead for equipment has skyrocketed. while I am a slightly larger shop than most. I have to have over a million dollars in equipment just to keep my certifications valid. I was looking in the want ads yesterday, and there are collision center from as far away as Seattle and S.F looking for help. you might not want to wreck your car in the future.(not that anyone does) you might not be able to get it fixed

[Tunnelcat]

as for the loyalty thing.....frankly, I have seen little by way of employer loyalty to employees, so it seems a two-way street with everyone for themselves these days.

I've personally run into that, so I know what you're talking about. I was a model employee too. I didn't smoke, drink or do drugs and showed up on time and did the work that was needed, plus some, but I never felt that I was a valuable asset to the company, just another disposable asset listed on the books.

What makes you think we were jumping into marriage back in the 50's and 60's. Were you there?

I didn't have to be there, that data is readily available. Over the last half century people are staying in school longer and putting off marriage and families until later. It's not just the United States either, but most of the developed world. Culturally we have age-related expectations that don't necessarily match up with reality. With regards to employment, people today are developing skills in different areas than in the past. This possibly accounts for some of the problems CUDA has and Heretic has witnessed.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/ ... ecord-low/

As for marriage in the 1950's, you're forgetting the times woody. It was the expectation that 2 people in love were supposed to get married and have the requisite 2 kids. Just look at the result after WWII, the baby boom. It was the social expectation of the times and if single women stayed single, she was looked upon as an old maid.........or worse. I asked my mom about it one time and she told me the pressure was very high for a single woman to get married and raise a family. She did just that in the mid-1950's, even though she ended up getting a divorce about 7 years later. She did tell me that she hadn't wanted to have kids at the time because she wanted to pursue a career and have a life of her own, but the pressure was too great to get married, prodding her to end up in a marriage she didn't really want or like. At least she loved both of her kids anyway. She missed the sexual revolution by a decade.

I'm not sure. I think this industry is dying. there are no young bodymen anymore. younger people now days are making their living with a PC, not with a craft. 10 years ago a good tech could make 80-90 K a year, but with all the regulation and the insurance companies tightening the screws on us, they are now only making in the 50's plus my overhead for equipment has skyrocketed. while I am a slightly larger shop than most. I have to have over a million dollars in equipment just to keep my certifications valid. I was looking in the want ads yesterday, and there are collision center from as far away as Seattle and S.F looking for help. you might not want to wreck your car in the future.(not that anyone does) you might not be able to get it fixed.

I find that a strange turn of events. Personally, I like working with my hands, creating and fixing things and being active, not sitting at a computer monitor all day. I've even done some auto body work and found it rewarding to make something look nice again. I'd come and apply myself, but I'm afraid I'm too old and tired now and wouldn't be able to put out enough work for you to make a profit. C'est la vie. I guess I'm from another generation. Are kids so lazy, or conditioned now that they expect to find a job sitting on their rear ends all day coding at a computer screen, instead of actually creating or fixing things? Is this the result of our making fast bucks, cheap goods and throw away mentality? If it breaks, just toss it into the trash and buy another? Sad.

[callmeslick]

CUDA, to your core point, you may be right. And, it's not, as you seem to suggest, an education thing, more a matter of the goals of younger people as to how they wish to make money. Likely, the tide may turn, but it may require your industry paying a premium for good staff for a while until a critical mass of people need money enough to educate themselves in your craft.

[vision]

And what data is that? Or are you just giving a lazy reply.

You need to be spoon fed all your information or are you capable of looking things up on your own? Oh wait, your a Fox News viewer... This isn't a controversial topic, the trends are widely visible and accepted. Here, since you are being defiant for not other reason except to be so, go ahead and find me some credible data that says no, people are not getting married later, staying in school longer, and choosing careers later in life. Good luck with that.

[Tunnelcat]

CUDA, to your core point, you may be right. And, it's not, as you seem to suggest, an education thing, more a matter of the goals of younger people as to how they wish to make money. Likely, the tide may turn, but it may require your industry paying a premium for good staff for a while until a critical mass of people need money enough to educate themselves in your craft.

I still see high schoolers taking auto shop, so there must be some interest in car work for young people. Maybe cars aren't as appealing as they used to be.

[callmeslick]

pertinent to the discussion:

http://www.delawareonline.com/viewart/2 ... g-studying

[Tunnelcat]

That doesn't explain my neighbor's 28 year old adult boy, who went to college for 3 years, then suddenly dropped out before finishing and is now sitting on his rear end at home with all the comforts afforded him, a car, food and a roof over his head. I don't know what happened to make him drop out, but the parents are wealthy and can afford to have him finish school and at least attempt to get a job. Why they keep him around and don't show a little tough love is beyond me.

[Top Gun]

That doesn't explain my neighbor's 28 year old adult boy, who went to college for 3 years, then suddenly dropped out before finishing and is now sitting on his rear end at home with all the comforts afforded him, a car, food and a roof over his head. I don't know what happened to make him drop out, but the parents are wealthy and can afford to have him finish school and at least attempt to get a job. Why they keep him around and don't show a little tough love is beyond me.

I'm honestly not very far off from that situation myself, though with the big caveat that I did finish my undergrad degree, and I'm currently working part-time and looking for a full-time position. There's a lot that can be going on in a person's life that may not be very evident from the outside...they may have some sort of physical or mental condition that makes it difficult to impossible for them to hold a job right now. Now I'm not saying that that's the case, and it may very well be that the guy's just a mooching bum, but I'm not going to be quick to judge given my own experiences.

[flip]

I use to send out 30-40 1099's every year. People don't want to work.

[woodchip]

And what data is that? Or are you just giving a lazy reply.

You need to be spoon fed all your information or are you capable of looking things up on your own? Oh wait, your a Fox News viewer... This isn't a controversial topic, the trends are widely visible and accepted. Here, since you are being defiant for not other reason except to be so, go ahead and find me some credible data that says no, people are not getting married later, staying in school longer, and choosing careers later in life. Good luck with that.

Oh wait, vision fails yet again. Median marriage age of males goes from 23 years old in 60's to 28 years in 2010. Funny how to me 23 is not exactly jumping into marriage right out of high school.

[vision]

...go ahead and find me some credible data that says no, people are not getting married later, staying in school longer, and choosing careers later in life. Good luck with that.

Oh wait, vision fails yet again. Median marriage age of males goes from 23 years old in 60's to 28 years in 2010. Funny how to me 23 is not exactly jumping into marriage right out of high school.

Actually, you are the big fail here. Not only could you not find anything to refute my claim (I knew you couldn't) you actually proved it for me. Thanks! Of course, to make your self feel better you added some spin by saying I failed and downplaying the numbers. And why provide the median and not the mean or mode? Probably fit your narrative better. You definitely learned from the best *cough*Fox*cough*. Gee, I wonder what possible things a person could do in the five years between 23 and 28? Oh, I don't know, maybe get another degree?

That doesn't explain my neighbor's 28 year old adult boy, who went to college for 3 years...

The difference in maturity between persons in their early 20's and their late 20's is shocking at times, but that is a topic for another day. The point is, all of these things delay when people settle into their first careers and what types of jobs they get. After all, people entering the workforce today are not only coming in with more education but massive debt. Can you blame them for holding out for a slightly higher paying job? I can't.

Personally I wish there were more apprenticeships and less emphasis on certain education models. It's a complex topic and one that's been covered dozens of times here I'm sure.

[Isaac]

Solution: Hire the incompetence morons as managers then demote all the experienced people to techs. I think that's how large corporations with lots of overhead do it.

[woodchip]

...go ahead and find me some credible data that says no, people are not getting married later, staying in school longer, and choosing careers later in life. Good luck with that.

Oh wait, vision fails yet again. Median marriage age of males goes from 23 years old in 60's to 28 years in 2010. Funny how to me 23 is not exactly jumping into marriage right out of high school.

Actually, you are the big fail here. Not only could you not find anything to refute my claim (I knew you couldn't) you actually proved it for me.

I used the site TC linked. Sorry you didn't catch that.

Personally I wish there were more apprenticeships and less emphasis on certain education models. It's a complex topic and one that's been covered dozens of times here I'm sure.

I completely agree with you

[CUDA]

A large problem is many young people don't want to start at the "bottom" they feel it's beneath them.
A few years ago, we had a lot attendant that got in trouble for sleeping in a customers car. he got mad and quit. telling us our expectations are too high here.
so I start thinking to myself. YOU'RE A LOT ATTENDANT!!!!! it doesn't get any more entry level then that. if those expectations are too high you are in some SERIOUS trouble the rest of your life.

[Top Gun]

So your "expectations are too high" that employees not sleep in the customers' cars. Wow.

[Spidey]

I started my work career as a paper boy’s helper, yes…helper.

I did a lot of things, from scrap collection to dishwashing…all before I finished High School.

I did have an apprenticeship lined up, but got bumped for affirmative action, but I think my experience of going thru about 5 or 6 crap jobs after school was about typical, before finding a “good” job…then I started my own business when the opportunity came along. (not in my field of schooling either, which was electronics)