anyone really surprised?

[callmeslick]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... 7318.story

I don't toss this out merely to rabble-rouse, but really, how many people in the pro-gun camp tried to paint this loon as a stable, decent citizen?

[Tunnelcat]

I think his anger management classes failed, miserably. The guy's a jerk.

[Top Gun]

Deputies said at one point, Zimmerman pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend, 27-year-old Samantha Scheibe.

Yyyyyyep.

[Spidey]

Yea….kinda makes ya have to wonder what kind of news stories would have come out if the other idiot had lived instead.

[Top Gun]

Yeah, except at least he still would have been alive.

[Spidey]

So you are saying you prefer one idiot over another?

[callmeslick]

Yea….kinda makes ya have to wonder what kind of news stories would have come out if the other idiot had lived instead.

he was, in essence, a pretty normal teenage boy. Hence, yes, an idiot by definition. Still, the stories down the road more than likely would have resembled those of his elder brother, who got his crap together, went to college and graduated with a degree. No reason, whatsoever, from the prior record, or family scenario, to think otherwise. You suggest the two were morally equal. I find that repulsive.

[Top Gun]

So you are saying you prefer one idiot over another?

I'm saying I'd prefer two people to be alive, instead of one having killed the other.

[vision]

So you are saying you prefer one idiot over another?

I'm saying I'd prefer two people to be alive, instead of one having killed the other.

It's too bad you had to explain your comment TopGun. I thought your meaning was evident.

[Spidey]

I said "if the other idiot had lived INSTEAD"

....as instead of Zimmerman.

not instead of dyeing.

[Spidey]

Yea….kinda makes ya have to wonder what kind of news stories would have come out if the other idiot had lived instead.

he was, in essence, a pretty normal teenage boy. Hence, yes, an idiot by definition. Still, the stories down the road more than likely would have resembled those of his elder brother, who got his crap together, went to college and graduated with a degree. No reason, whatsoever, from the prior record, or family scenario, to think otherwise. You suggest the two were morally equal. I find that repulsive.

Sure, If Martin had killed Zimmerman instead, his life would have turned out ★■◆●ing perfect.

[CUDA]

Yea….kinda makes ya have to wonder what kind of news stories would have come out if the other idiot had lived instead.

he was, in essence, a pretty normal teenage boy. Hence, yes, an idiot by definition. Still, the stories down the road more than likely would have resembled those of his elder brother, who got his crap together, went to college and graduated with a degree. No reason, whatsoever, from the prior record, or family scenario, to think otherwise. You suggest the two were morally equal. I find that repulsive.

a WHOLE LOT of speculation going on here.

[callmeslick]

Yea….kinda makes ya have to wonder what kind of news stories would have come out if the other idiot had lived instead.

he was, in essence, a pretty normal teenage boy. Hence, yes, an idiot by definition. Still, the stories down the road more than likely would have resembled those of his elder brother, who got his crap together, went to college and graduated with a degree. No reason, whatsoever, from the prior record, or family scenario, to think otherwise. You suggest the two were morally equal. I find that repulsive.

Sure, If Martin had killed Zimmerman instead, his life would have turned out **** perfect.

I catch your subtle point, but there is little evidence that Zimmerman was likely to have gotten killed, and NONE had he never approached the kid.

[CUDA]

So you can't approach someone without getting attacked. Who knew.

[callmeslick]

So you can't approach someone without getting attacked. Who knew.

no, I'm responding to the LIKELIHOOD OF OUTCOME, CUDA. Nothing more. And, once again, while Zimmerman goes out and shows, for what is now the sixth time, that he is a danger to society, folks like you keep coming back to blaming a teenager who fell victim to his recklessness, and poor judgement. Why? Something about a black teenager walking down a street that bothers you, CUDA? Or, is it Obama's interjection that still sticks in your craw. My post dealt with Zimmerman, and how he was painted during that whole case. It was clearly a bogus portrayal. If you disagree, please point it out, but you and others feeling the need to put assumptions onto a DECEASED person is sort of ugly to witness.

[Will Robinson]

... but there is little evidence that Zimmerman was likely to have gotten killed, and NONE had he never approached the kid.

That is where you depart from reasonable logic and dive head first into bias!

The minute his head was sent into concrete he was very much in danger of being killed instantly!
No one in there right mind would expect you to not react in some form of self defense if someone punched you in the face and slammed you to the ground and your head hit concrete! Not even if the initial contact with the concrete was dampened by your efforts to raise your head away from the impact.

No law is requiring people to refrain from self defense in that scenario, nor to moderate their reaction based on how hard they hit the concrete. For good reason too because the first impact could easily have killed you and the subsequent impacts are likely to do so...in spite of your biased or illogical characterization to the contrary!

Bottom line is even emotionally unstable, relationship challenged loose cannons have a right to self defense. As do overzealous security guards who stay in the vicinity of potential danger instead of laying back and acting more wisely.
The reason why is because we all have a reasonable expectation to not be physically assaulted, the law specifically supports that expectation even for people who are on the wrong side of their fears or suspicions. And what evidence there was found does indicate the conditions I describe.

When someone slams your head into the concrete your life is in danger. If it had been your head slick, you would have felt in danger. I've been there and felt it. Your whole world is instantly distilled down to a singular instinct to fight or flight. On your back with an assailant pounding you flight becomes difficult and if you are a wimpy soft little man like Zimmerman you better have a weapon.

As to this recent incident, I'll wait for the officials to make a determination before I decide just like I did the first time I heard about Zimmerman. He might be guilty as the headline leads us to believe. He might only be guilty of being a dumb ass for going in there alone so it is his word against hers. It wouldn't be the first time he did that...

[callmeslick]

once again, let's put Trayvon Martin out of this, and focus on Zimmerman, who is clearly a loose cannon, and likely always has been. Hardly the person who should be made 'watch captain', or even, really, be sold a gun. Will, it's not just this incident, he is building up a track record that is hard to ignore. Hence, this time they jailed him without bond.

[vision]

Today I learned white people like unstable Mexicans better than Blacks.

[Will Robinson]

once again, let's put Trayvon Martin out of this, and focus on Zimmerman, who is clearly a loose cannon, and likely always has been. Hardly the person who should be made 'watch captain', or even, really, be sold a gun. Will, it's not just this incident, he is building up a track record that is hard to ignore. Hence, this time they jailed him without bond.

I didn't put Martin in this....
I was talking directly to your attempt to diminish the likelyhood Zimmerman faced any danger.

[Will Robinson]

Today I learned white people like unstable Mexicans better than Blacks.

If you think you learned that here in this thread then you are one of the most prejudiced people to ever jump to a self serving conclusion I have ever known of.

[Will Robinson]

.... My post dealt with Zimmerman, and how he was painted during that whole case. It was clearly a bogus portrayal. ...

Yes, he was portrayed in a very dishonest fashion.
Major networks broadcasting the 911 recordings in an altered state or transcribed out of context to make him sound like a racist.
Video altered to hide the head injury so the media could report there was no injury...

I think there was more, but good catch slick...

[CobGobbler]

Vision, it's not that people on this board like Zimmerman, it's only that Obama said something about the case and that side hates Obama so much that they immediately go to the other side of whatever issue he is on.

What really sucks is that Zimmerman still makes the news somehow.

[Will Robinson]

Vision, it's not that people on this board like Zimmerman, it's only that Obama said something about the case and that side hates Obama so much that they immediately go to the other side of whatever issue he is on.

What really sucks is that Zimmerman still makes the news somehow.

That's bullcrap.
I didn't know what to think of the shooting and assumed Zimmerman was probably guilty because of early media reports until I started learning about how the media and loud mouthed celebrities were working so hard to alter reality make sure everyone thought he was a racist psychopath and a poster boy for gun control!

Obama, in typical politician fashion, didn't weigh in on it until after enough of the country bought into the the media's lynching efforts once he could sense a political payoff by jumping on the 'White gun owner shoots cherub like black child!' bandwagon!

[Tunnelcat]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

[Will Robinson]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

Are you forgetting that months before Obama came out with an opinion his attorney General had already sent a team down to facilitate bussing in "protestors" from a neighboring city to the courthouse in Sanford where they ultimately caused a Sheriff to be fired and a political prosecutor to reopen the case with a promise to convict. That prosecutor went on to file an affidavit to a Grand Jury that she had purposely removed evidence from that would have led to the Grand Jury refusing to file charges against a Zimmerman! Evidence that the Sheriff had used in his decision to not prosecute originally and ultimately was proven to be the correct decision although he never got his job back....

So don't go blaming a political component coming from a conservative reaction to Obama's including himself in the issue! You are completely wrong on that. Team Obama made it a national political issue by design from behind the scenes that he then cashed in on!


It's amazing, and sadly predictable, to watch so many people exclude these facts from their interpretation of the events just to sustain the false narrative they cling to out of ideology.

[Tunnelcat]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

Are you forgetting that months before Obama came out with an opinion his attorney General had already sent a team down to facilitate bussing in "protestors" from a neighboring city to the courthouse in Sanford where they ultimately caused a Sheriff to be fired and a political prosecutor to reopen the case with a promise to convict. That prosecutor went on to file an affidavit to a Grand Jury that she had purposely removed evidence from that would have led to the Grand Jury refusing to file charges against a Zimmerman! Evidence that the Sheriff had used in his decision to not prosecute originally and ultimately was proven to be the correct decision although he never got his job back....

That's what I indicated. What I should have said was that the AG, THEN OBAMA, stepped into the fray publicly. The race issue took on political overtones, then people squared off and took sides based on race, whites for Zimmerman, blacks for Trayvon.

[vision]

How dare that black kid threaten an upstanding citizen such as Zimmerman, who would never do anything to provoke violence. He had it coming, that dirty hoodie-wearing criminal.

[callmeslick]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

Are you forgetting that months before Obama came out with an opinion his attorney General had already sent a team down to facilitate bussing in "protestors" from a neighboring city to the courthouse in Sanford where they ultimately caused a Sheriff to be fired and a political prosecutor to reopen the case with a promise to convict.

this is a flat-out lie. No such thing ever happened, and I long ago provided links that proved so.

It's amazing, and sadly predictable, to watch so many people exclude these facts from their interpretation of the events just to sustain the false narrative they cling to out of ideology.

ain't that the truth.....

[Will Robinson]

How dare that black kid threaten an upstanding citizen such as Zimmerman, who would never do anything to provoke violence. He had it coming, that dirty hoodie-wearing criminal.

Are you implying only certain people have a right to defend themselves against violence?
People you decided are bad people have forfeited that right?

When the media saw that a gun owner had defended himself and a black person was shot they reported the gun owner was white, a racist and not injured after claiming self defense and said he in fact stalked a little black child who was minding his own business just walking down the street.

They eliminated any evidence that would cast any doubt on his being a bad person so that the mob would see him as a bad person. And now you have decided "bad people" have no rights like you and I do.
Well, until you or I have the power to set the other up to be a bad person too....

[Spidey]

...then people squared off and took sides based on race, whites for Zimmerman, blacks for Trayvon.

But, who was standing up for the Hispanics?

[Will Robinson]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

Are you forgetting that months before Obama came out with an opinion his attorney General had already sent a team down to facilitate bussing in "protestors" from a neighboring city to the courthouse in Sanford where they ultimately caused a Sheriff to be fired and a political prosecutor to reopen the case with a promise to convict.

this is a flat-out lie. No such thing ever happened, and I long ago provided links that proved so. ....

No you didn't slick. The justice department facilitated bussing students from another town to protest in Sanford. The AG put pressure on the Sheriff and then the Mayor and the Prosecutor. The sheriff has testified to it.

All you proved was it isn't the only time they have done something like that!

[callmeslick]

...then people squared off and took sides based on race, whites for Zimmerman, blacks for Trayvon.

But, who was standing up for the Hispanics?

Ted Cruz and Pit Bull, at various times. (back at ya)

[vision]

That Zimm, what a great guy. Would never intentionally provoke violence. Why are black youths so hostile to a simple inquiry like "excuse me young sir, I see you lingering around these parts a little aimlessly. may I help you find what you are looking for?"

[callmeslick]

No, once Obama stepped into the fray, things immediately became political and polarized, and mostly in favor of Zimmerman.

Are you forgetting that months before Obama came out with an opinion his attorney General had already sent a team down to facilitate bussing in "protestors" from a neighboring city to the courthouse in Sanford where they ultimately caused a Sheriff to be fired and a political prosecutor to reopen the case with a promise to convict.

this is a flat-out lie. No such thing ever happened, and I long ago provided links that proved so. ....

No you didn't slick. The justice department facilitated bussing students from another town to protest in Sanford. The AG put pressure on the Sheriff and then the Mayor and the Prosecutor. The sheriff has testified to it.

All you proved was it isn't the only time they have done something like that!

no, the paperwork which came out, showed the AG's office merely sent a dozen observers(standard in any high tension situation). No one from the Federal government bussed a damned soul in, and no one has ever shown ANY evidence that they did.

[CUDA]

So you can't approach someone without getting attacked. Who knew.

no, I'm responding to the LIKELIHOOD OF OUTCOME, CUDA. Nothing more. And, once again, while Zimmerman goes out and shows, for what is now the sixth time, that he is a danger to society, folks like you keep coming back to blaming a teenager who fell victim to his recklessness, and poor judgement. Why? Something about a black teenager walking down a street that bothers you, CUDA? Or, is it Obama's interjection that still sticks in your craw. My post dealt with Zimmerman, and how he was painted during that whole case. It was clearly a bogus portrayal. If you disagree, please point it out, but you add others feeling the need to put assumptions onto a DECEASED person is sort of ugly to witness.

no your not.... you only gave your opinion based on a lack af any substantive evidence.

NO ONE knows where that attack would have ended, including you


You dont know what martin would have done.
You will never know what martin would have done. So dont make ★■◆● up trying to influence your lack of facts in this argument.

so to use your own talking points against you. He was acquitted. GET OVER IT

and FYI I didnt say anything about obama interjecting in this debate. So try again

[callmeslick]

my point, which seems still to elude you, CUDA, is that the time to discuss Trayvon is, indeed, over. This thread was solely about Zimmerman, and OTHERS(ie-not me) felt compelled to bring up his first victim(Martin). Now, Will is raising the goofy BS that somehow Eric Holder created a demonstration(that I thoroughly debunked months ago).Let's stick to Zimmerman.

[CUDA]

But ironically instead of saying that, you jumped right into the middle of the Trayvon debate with both feet.

[callmeslick]

yeah, you're right, CUDA.

[CobGobbler]

You see? One mention of Obama and it's like blood in the water for the sharks.

I hope he gets a handful of years so we can all stop talking about him. Let his fellow inmates decide what his justice should be. Good riddance.

[callmeslick]

Funny FB post: "George Zimmerman Just found out that when you assault somone who ISN'T BLACK, they arrest you, like, real fast."