Of Donuts and Bullets

[woodchip]

I was listening to the news the other day and how they were releasing the Sandy Hook 911 calls. While I don't particularly care about listening in on other peoples misery what did pique my interest was the question why the police did not go into the school right away. The response was they did not know how many shooters were in the building. This same response was given, I believe, during the Columbine shooting. So why do these police, who profess to serve and protect, fail to enter buildings because they don't "know" how many shooters there are? Somehow the pat answer of "We want to go home to our families" does not seem the be the proper response.
Seems to me if the taxpayer buys them all this paramilitary gear and they have all this training for such situations, should they not go in and try to save people? After all if 18 and 19 year old marines can go in and clear out buildings, why can't the police? If the police are going to stay outside eating donuts and wait until the gunfire and victims die away before entering, then why do they need to parade around in tactical gear? Perhaps some nice pink blazers with the words "We Love You" would be better gear.

[Will Robinson]

Politicians don't want anyone to be able to say the police caused the shooter to kill children by rushing in there.

[callmeslick]

we have a winner in Will's response!

[CUDA]

It always easy to criticize someone's actions after the fact. And especially when you dont know all the details. IMHO

[woodchip]

So Cuda, it is better to not criticize public officials/employee's? I guess winding up with a GSA official having his picture taken in a expensive bathtub surrounded by wine filled glasses is something you don't mind?

[callmeslick]

It always easy to criticize someone's actions after the fact. And especially when you dont know all the details. IMHO

B-E-N-G-H-A-Z-I.........wtf?

[CUDA]

It always easy to criticize someone's actions after the fact. And especially when you dont know all the details. IMHO

B-E-N-G-H-A-Z-I.........wtf?

HELLO head meet ass. we know what happened in Benghazi, we know the Administration lied to cover up what really happened. and it was known BEFORE the scandal started. so you just go ahead and keep parroting the administrations lies. it is after all something you are very good at

[CUDA]

So Cuda, it is better to not criticize public officials/employee's? I guess winding up with a GSA official having his picture taken in a expensive bathtub surrounded by wine filled glasses is something you don't mind?

two separate issues woody, Sandyhook is a damned if you do. damned if you don't. and you know it. Will is absolutely right. open your eyes

[woodchip]

Lets see, 911 call comes in someone is shooting the kids at a elementary school. So the reason to not go in is not to trigger the shooter to shoot people? THEY'RE ALREADY BEING SHOT!
If what Will posts makes good sense to you Cuda, heaven help us all.

[CUDA]

And you know GD well that if they had just rushed in there, certain groups out there would have said they went in too fast and cost people lives because of their rush. stop drinking the Kool-Aid woody

[vision]

After all if 18 and 19 year old marines can go in and clear out buildings, why can't the police?

Are you seriously trying to compare the training that marines get to police training? Those are completely different jobs. This is why we have S.W.A.T. teams. Also, marines are generally not very worried about "collateral damage" and police usually are.

[callmeslick]

we know what happened in Benghazi

no we don't

we know the Administration lied to cover up what really happened. and it was known BEFORE the scandal started.

no we don't, and no we never did.

hence, to you, it is one thing to criticize Woody for making assumptions after the fact, and for you to make similar(or worse, as shown by the quoted nonsense)assumptions after the fact of the Benghazi attack. You weren't there, you were not privvy to the decision process, the communications, the whole situation, yet, you readily jumped onto the party line rhetoric of the right. In short, you did EXACTLY what you are criticizing Woody for in a different situation. And, I think in both cases, you all are wrong. If you weren't there, you have no clue what the thought process or priorities of decision making were.

[CUDA]

we know what happened in Benghazi

no we don't

we know the Administration lied to cover up what really happened. and it was known BEFORE the scandal started.

no we don't, and no we never did.

hence, to you, it is one thing to criticize Woody for making assumptions after the fact, and for you to make similar(or worse, as shown by the quoted nonsense)assumptions after the fact of the Benghazi attack. You weren't there, you were not privvy to the decision process, the communications, the whole situation, yet, you readily jumped onto the party line rhetoric of the right. In short, you did EXACTLY what you are criticizing Woody for in a different situation. And, I think in both cases, you all are wrong. If you weren't there, you have no clue what the thought process or priorities of decision making were.

then you're lying to yourself. the information is out there. so now stop lying to us

[callmeslick]

I know the superficial facts, as do you, as does Woody regarding Sandy Hook and the 911 call. But, in neither case do ANY of us know the details, in real time, of what decisions people made and why.

[Top Gun]

Wasn't there just a hearing two or three days ago that pretty much disproved the right-wing line on Benghazi once and for all?

[Will Robinson]

It certainly was a lie to go around telling everyone an anti Muslim video put on youtube six months before was the cause of a spontaneous protest that led to a tactical mortar strike that was...well...spontaneously coordinated by the mob and local security detail that suddenly disappeared? to aid a storming of two different compounds in a spontaneous protest over a many months old video uploaded by some anonymous youtuber?!?

Especially when you knew that the attack was forewarned and was never attributed to a video by anyone there on the ground. And your own intelligence operatives told you it was al Queda....and you knew they were there specifically because your ambassador was there providing cover for the CIA and State Dept who were gathering up surface to air missiles and shipping them to rebels in Syria....and your ambassador warned you about it and his concerns for security just before he went back there to act out his role in the operation.

That was a big lie that was continued for a month or more. And, by the way, these details come from people who were there....

And no TopGun there was no hearing that disproves those details. There are emails and witnesses and testimony that support them as truthful.
What there isn't is a press willing to give them as much air time as they gave the bogus Allah video lie....nor are you as willing to consider the details that indict your choice of political leaders as you are to swallow the bogus storyline.

[woodchip]

Wasn't there just a hearing two or three days ago that pretty much disproved the right-wing line on Benghazi once and for all?

And just what was the "Right Wing" lie? Is this like Hillary's "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"? And link for disproving.

[callmeslick]

And, by the way, these details come from people who were there....

.

.....like the guy on Sixty Minutes, right?

now,, howabout a return to Woody's scenario? Should cops get some slack for less tactical training, and more sensitivity to collateral deaths? I think so, especially those who would be responding first in a place like suburban Connecticut.

[Top Gun]

Wasn't there just a hearing two or three days ago that pretty much disproved the right-wing line on Benghazi once and for all?

And just what was the "Right Wing" lie? Is this like Hillary's "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"? And link for disproving.

This report pretty much exposes the supposed "stand down" order issued to CIA operatives as the Fox bull★■◆● that it was.

[Krom]

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/this-ju ... 2300-8304/...

While the Just Cause 2 Multiplayer Launch Trailer is indeed Nuts, I'm not really sure that is the link you meant to post here.

[Will Robinson]

Funny, I never cited the 60 Minutes guy, who, by the way, offered no relevant information be it true or false! He merely claimed to have been there in the midst of the events and likely was not.
So for you to bring him into this conversation was practically a non-sequitar and even if you assume a connection to my point his claims, true or false, would do absolutely nothing to prove or disprove the details I mentioned. But you knew that didn't you...
You merely wanted to imply I was offering untrue details without daring to enter into the examination of them. A typical slick debate tactic. Why not also say the Tooth Fairy isn't a real fairy either?!?

Nor did I mention the "stand down" assertion TopGun....

So you both have offered nothing but straw men to distract and dodge behind.

Fail.

[woodchip]

Wasn't there just a hearing two or three days ago that pretty much disproved the right-wing line on Benghazi once and for all?

And just what was the "Right Wing" lie? Is this like Hillary's "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"? And link for disproving.

This report pretty much exposes the supposed "stand down" order issued to CIA operatives as the Fox bull★■◆● that it was.

And you tell me I should stop posting

[woodchip]

now,, howabout a return to Woody's scenario? Should cops get some slack for less tactical training, and more sensitivity to collateral deaths? I think so, especially those who would be responding first in a place like suburban Connecticut.

I think S.W.A.T. teams get even more training regarding this type of training than Marines ever will as they are constantly training. If there is some logical reason to not enter a building while kids are being shot I'd like to hear a well thought out reason why....other than Wills tongue in cheek comment.

[Top Gun]

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/this-ju ... 2300-8304/...

While the Just Cause 2 Multiplayer Launch Trailer is indeed Nuts, I'm not really sure that is the link you meant to post here.

Wow...this is what I get for not remembering what the hell I have on the clipboard at the current moment. Let's try this again.

[vision]

I think S.W.A.T. teams get even more training regarding this type of training than Marines ever will as they are constantly training.

So which is it? Are you talking about police or SWAT teams? They are different jobs, just like Marines are a different from law enforcement. Think about what you want to say and don't shuffle the deck half way down the thread.

[callmeslick]

Woody, the people you question were not the State SWAT team. You have to understand, Newtown is a smallish bedroom community a ways from a major city(sort of between Hartford and New Haven), so those cops were likely a mix of local departments from small towns at first.