Putin about to move in...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:46 pm

Looks like Putin is about to take more of Ukraine-

Earlier this morning we reported that "Pro-Russia Protesters Seize Government Building In East Ukraine, Demand Autonomy." We suggested that this was only the first city in eastern Ukraine that would see this kind of internal revolt. Sure enough, hours later, the largest city in East Ukraine and one located in close proximity to Russia, Kharkiv, also saw its state building fall to what appear to be pro-Russia protesters, making it the third major city after Donetsk and nearby Luhansk. This coordinated and largely unexpected pro-Russian action triggering accusations from the pro-European government in Kiev that President Vladimir Putin was orchestrating "separatist disorder."

From Reuters:

Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of being behind the seizure of state buildings by pro-Russia protesters in eastern Ukraine on Sunday and promised that police would restore order peacefully.

He also accused Ukraine's ousted president Viktor Yanukovich of conspiring with Putin to fuel tensions in the region.

Earlier, pro-Russian protesters demanding a referendum on whether to join Russia seized a regional government building in the city of Donetsk and the offices of security services in nearby Luhansk.

"Putin and Yanukovich ordered and paid for the latest wave of separatist disorder in the east of the country. The people who have gathered are not many but they are very aggressive," Avakov said in a statement on his Facebook page.

"The situation will come back under control without bloodshed. That is the order to law enforcement officers, it's true. But the truth is that no one will peacefully tolerate the lawlessness of provocateurs," he said.
As expected, Kiev is scrambling to restore the semblance that it is under control, which as we noted earlier, it isn't:

Acting President Oleksander Turchinov called an emergency meeting of security chiefs in Kiev and took personal control of the situation, the parliamentary press service said.
The problem for Kiev is that suddenly the scramble for a referendum is reminiscent of what happened in Crimea. And everyone knows how that ended. Which means the acting government has to promptly halt the momentum toward sovereign independence or else East Ukraine is about to become a separate country, if not the latest annexation success for Russia.

Around 1,500 people protested in Donetsk on Sunday before breaking into the regional administration building, where they hung a Russian flag from a second-floor balcony, a Reuters witness said. Protesters outside cheered and chanted "Russia! Russia!".

In the Luhansk protest, Ukrainian television said three people had been injured. Police could not confirm the report. Talking to the crowd over a loudspeaker, protest leaders in Donetsk said they wanted regional lawmakers to convene an emergency meeting to discuss a vote on joining Russia like the one in Ukraine's Crimea region that led to its annexation.

"Deputies of the regional council should convene before midnight and take the decision to carry out a referendum," one of the protest leaders said, without identifying himself.

A local Internet portal streamed footage from the seized building, showing people entering and exiting freely. Soviet-era music was being played over loudspeakers outside. The building houses the offices of Serhiy Taruta, a steel baron recently appointed by the interim government in Kiev as governor of a region with close economic and historical ties to Russia.

"Around 1,000 people took part (in the storming of the building), mostly young people with their faces covered," said Ihor Dyomin, a spokesman for Donetsk local police. "Around 100 people are now inside the building and are barricading the building," he added.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-0 ... rchestrati

Russian special forces are orchestrating the 'demonstrations' and taking buildings.

Should Kiev react and take lives to bring them back into control, Russia will use the pretext to invade.

Should Kiev do nothing and the 'protests' (which happen to be rather strangely concurrent in several cities in the east at one time) grow larger, Russia will still invade to 'protect' Russian citizens/speakers/ethnic Russians, etc.

But the scariest news came moments ago from the Twitter account of Konstantin Rykov, who reported that the Russian troops in Rostov have just been put on military alert. We have not seen any independent confirmation anywhere else but this would be a very serious escalation in the superficial detente between Russia and the West via its proxy regime in Kiev.

So Putin is now making his move since having all of those troops/tanks/etc sitting on the border costs money- and returning them to their bases before taking territory never crossed his mind. Ukraine is Russia's (his) in Putin's mind. He's just taking it back.

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:57 am

President Putin says Crimea was stolen from Russia, remains an inseparable part of Russia

This statement alone tells the personal feelings and aspirations of Putin to restore the USSR.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:23 am

ThunderBunny, and you probably would like to see the conflict in Ukraine developed by the typical American scenario? Organize a civil war, Ukrainians give American weapons that they killed each other, send hired thugs to Ukraine to weaken, and eventually put the President, who would be loyal to the aggressive U.S. policy towards Russia? YES?!
Ukrainians should thank God that Russia did not allow the Americans to organize the genocide of the Ukrainian people and destroy their country.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:27 am

Yes, it is better to let the Russians perform the genocide.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:32 am

flip wrote:
President Putin says Crimea was stolen from Russia, remains an inseparable part of Russia
This statement alone tells the personal feelings and aspirations of Putin to restore the USSR.

No, but where were the U.S. and the UN, when the signed contract Bialowieza? When more than 70% of Soviet citizens were against the collapse of the USSR?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:35 am

woodchip wrote:Yes, it is better to let the Russians perform the genocide.

Sometimes I have the impression that you did not think before you write something..

flip · Post by **flip** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:23 am

Well Sigma, the mismanagement of your superiors caused that collapse and if I remember correctly, the US was key in helping Russia obtain financial stability during that time. Although I do think Putin is genius. We should have let you fall in such disarray that you destroyed yourselves from within, instead of falling into what I feel like is probably going to be the greatest comeback of the 20th and 21st centuries.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:24 am

sigma wrote:
woodchip wrote:Yes, it is better to let the Russians perform the genocide.
Sometimes I have the impression that you did not think before you write something..

disagree with your world-view, but this is funny!!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:08 am

sigma wrote:
woodchip wrote:Yes, it is better to let the Russians perform the genocide.
Sometimes I have the impression that you did not think before you write something..

Do you?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:21 am

sigma wrote:
flip wrote:
President Putin says Crimea was stolen from Russia, remains an inseparable part of Russia
This statement alone tells the personal feelings and aspirations of Putin to restore the USSR.
No, but where were the U.S. and the UN, when the signed contract Bialowieza? When more than 70% of Soviet citizens were against the collapse of the USSR?

whether your citizens were or weren't against it, you had already doomed it through decades of poor management, and overspending on military junk. I strongly suspect that nowhere near 70% of the occupied satellite state citizens wanted anything to do with the USSR. They clearly showed that by immediately voting to break away from Russia. Most have done rather well since.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:05 am

Yeah, but Eastern Ukraine is siding with the Russians. I'm betting Putin will at least reclaim that part of Ukraine for mother Russia.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:22 am

I wonder if Putin will put up a wall to keep all the non-Russians in the eastern half.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:32 am

callmeslick wrote:
sigma wrote:
flip wrote:
President Putin says Crimea was stolen from Russia, remains an inseparable part of Russia
This statement alone tells the personal feelings and aspirations of Putin to restore the USSR.
No, but where were the U.S. and the UN, when the signed contract Bialowieza? When more than 70% of Soviet citizens were against the collapse of the USSR?
whether your citizens were or weren't against it, you had already doomed it through decades of poor management, and overspending on military junk. I strongly suspect that nowhere near 70% of the occupied satellite state citizens wanted anything to do with the USSR. They clearly showed that by immediately voting to break away from Russia. Most have done rather well since.

You do not say !

I did not know this news ! This is what country the former Soviet republics now live well ? Who among them has helped separation from the Russian Federation ?
In my opinion , 23 years of independence only showed clearly that without Russia they would not survive . They are not wanted. European Union Ukraine deceived even in critical situations. And U.S. underdeveloped countries of the CIS in general only as a springboard for placement of NATO bases . Do not tell me . If the U.S. really wanted to help these countries , they would have long since done so. But the only thing the U.S. did was implemented and continue to implement in regions with a predominance of the Muslim faith is Muslim extremism ! The U.S. had a good chance , but time has shown that they are able to only harm the Russian state. U.S. always acts only in their predatory interests.
Please tell me again that this is propaganda !
P.S. In my opinion, this topic is no sense to develop more. You are incompetent, or pretend that you are incompetent.
Or what if there is nothing more to discuss, you can always find a reason to discuss Russia?
P.P.S. ThunderBunny fress chips and giggles

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:59 am

sigma wrote:
callmeslick wrote:
sigma wrote:
flip wrote:
President Putin says Crimea was stolen from Russia, remains an inseparable part of Russia
This statement alone tells the personal feelings and aspirations of Putin to restore the USSR.
No, but where were the U.S. and the UN, when the signed contract Bialowieza? When more than 70% of Soviet citizens were against the collapse of the USSR?
whether your citizens were or weren't against it, you had already doomed it through decades of poor management, and overspending on military junk. I strongly suspect that nowhere near 70% of the occupied satellite state citizens wanted anything to do with the USSR. They clearly showed that by immediately voting to break away from Russia. Most have done rather well since.
You do not say ! I did not know this news ! This is what country the former Soviet republics now live well ? Who among them has helped separation from the Russian Federation ?

Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Lithuania come to mind.....

In my opinion , 23 years of independence only showed clearly that without Russia they would not survive . They are not wanted. European Union Ukraine deceived even in critical situations. And U.S. underdeveloped countries of the CIS in general only as a springboard for placement of NATO bases . Do not tell me . If the U.S. really wanted to help these countries , they would have long since done so. But the only thing the U.S. did was implemented and continue to implement in regions with a predominance of the Muslim faith is Muslim extremism ! The U.S. had a good chance , but time has shown that they are able to only harm the Russian state. U.S. always acts only in their predatory interests.
Please tell me again that this is propaganda !

ok. This is propaganda, and complete nonsense to anyone viewing the real world with any lack of bias.

P.S. In my opinion, this topic is no sense to develop more. You are incompetent, or pretend that you are incompetent.

let the name-calling begin. This belies how truly weak your argument is. I've asked you, for weeks now, to cite any source you can find that isn't a Russian news outlet for some of your goofy claims. You haven't. Either you wish to continue lying and expect us to accept those lies, or you are coming up short in your search for corroboration.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:08 am

Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic have never been part of the USSR.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:11 am

sigma wrote:Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic have never been part of the USSR.

they were part of the bloc of states that the USSR prevented from interacting with the west. If you wish to limit discussion to actual states in the USSR,
it can be said that the Central Asia republics are doing well, thanks to oil and gas, and that Latvia and Estonia have been making VERY strong progress. Likewise, Georgia and Ukraine might have done better except for constant meddling from Russia.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:50 am

Block of the Warsaw Pact was created to eliminate the threat to attack the USSR and European countries in the post-war conditions.

Which of these countries do you think have been developed after the separation from Russia? Latvian and Estonian men are now engaged in menial jobs in England and Germany, women worked as a governess in Europe, Georgians work as laborers on construction sites in Turkey. And of course, the most common profession Ukrainian men - Repair of apartments in Russia, and women - prostitution in Europe, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and the United States.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:04 pm

links to any of those claims, Sigma?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:55 am

callmeslick wrote:links to any of those claims, Sigma?

Where you saw the claims? These are facts. Why are you substituting the concept?
And why do you need links? I'm not going to prove every word I say unnecessarily, especially for the person who does not want to trust me.
I do not read the tabloid press, Slick, if that's what you mean. If you are very interested, basically I read the news from these sources
Лента
Росбалт

P.S. And by the way, I still consider that intervention of the USA in zones of political instability in other countries, is only and always the catalyst of inflating of the conflicts and the worst succession of events from all possible.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:00 am

sigma wrote:
callmeslick wrote:links to any of those claims, Sigma?
Where you saw the claims? These are facts. Why are you substituting the concept?

no theyl aren't 'facts'. You need PROOF of facts. You provide NOTHING. Except links to Russian lies and propaganda. Care to try to prove your claimed 'facts' via the international press outside Russia?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:30 am

I have the impression that you are a stranger from the past. Only a person from the distant past could remain so stable allergic to Russian. Greetings to you from the people of the XXIst century in this case!

And what makes you think that the link to the message in the Western press is irrefutable proof-reliability of the information? Ahaha!

No country in the world can not boast that their press is the standard of honesty.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:36 am

I agree with your last sentence, and thus ask you(repeatedly) to cite references from OTHER nation's press about the outrageous claims you make. You refuse. Now, the question becomes: Why?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:52 am

Look, Slick. I'm not reprint news from the Russian press for you. To provide for this reference. I express my opinion, which is based on many sources of information, news, analytics, opinions of ordinary citizens, not only in Russia but also abroad. When I am quoting, I will point out that this is a quote, or give a link to the source. If you have not noticed.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:17 am

sigma wrote: And what makes you think that the link to the message in the Western press is irrefutable proof-reliability of the information? Ahaha!

Looks like sigma has us there. One needs look no further than Dan Rather for proof of that.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:11 am

sigma wrote:Block of the Warsaw Pact was created to eliminate the threat to attack the USSR and European countries in the post-war conditions.

Which of these countries do you think have been developed after the separation from Russia? Latvian and Estonian men are now engaged in menial jobs in England and Germany, women worked as a governess in Europe, Georgians work as laborers on construction sites in Turkey. And of course, the most common profession Ukrainian men - Repair of apartments in Russia, and women - prostitution in Europe, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and the United States.

And what were those people doing before the breakup of the USSR? You imply, by your question, that before the breakup all was better for them with the Soviet boot on their necks. I think if that was true they would never have resumed independance.

Really what you are saying is after the occupation by Russians and Russians mixing with their people for 50 years they have become a poor, broken, desperate people. That doesn't indicate anything Russians should be proud of!

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:54 am

Willy, has it ever occurred to you that the persistent imposition of American media creation information occasions to discuss the problems the Americans in another Russian, is nothing more than as a substitute for the real problems of America in the minds of American society?

Slick, if you are very interested, I can give you one of the links on the basis of which was formed my idea of America. Read and tell me what this Russian propaganda.
The Dark Side of America

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:36 am

Well, it's in Russian, but you can't deny the images in those pictures, some of which I remember from the Vietnam War. Most Americans don't like to acknowledge what our government has done in the name of defending freedom, like torturing people for instance. We also tend to think we are better than everyone else on the planet, when in reality, we're just as bad, if not worse, because we are the biggest bad-ass around. All that torturing done under the auspices of a previous administration and carried out by a now rogue CIA, tsk, tsk. What would the Founding Fathers think. It's time the CIA was put on a leash. It's an entity that's making it's own rules and is under no one's jurisdiction anymore. By the way, torture didn't get us Bin Laden either. Wake up Americans, we look like a bunch bullies to a big part of the world.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/03/us-v ... first-step

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/03/opinion/a ... index.html

http://www.thetorturereport.org/

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:40 am

All that torture TC? 3 individuals were water boarded so hardly a lot.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:07 am

Wanna bet? Sounds more like the U.S. is emulating Nazi Germany. The CIA is researching it to enhance it's effectiveness.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/06/07/ ... n-torture/

It's more than that. If what the CIA was doing wasn't so bad, why did they destroy all their videotapes of what they did to their "prisoners"? Why is this new Senate report about to be declassified as to what the CIA was calling "enhanced interrogation" and is now called so "shocking" that the CIA wants to filter out all the bad parts of what's to be released to the public? Forgetting about what went on with the military in Abu Ghraib already woody?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/03/politics/ ... index.html

Back then, we had "others" do the some of the dirty work as well. It was called "rendition".

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... artpos=100

Hell, we're even exporting it to our allies. Aren't we nice.

https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/ ... 646124.php

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:15 am

TC, I'd be more concerned about the EPA than the CIA:

"Watchdog: EPA human test subjects not always told about lethal risks of studies"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04 ... s-studies/

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:02 pm

woodchip wrote:TC, I'd be more concerned about the EPA than the CIA:

"Watchdog: EPA human test subjects not always told about lethal risks of studies"

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04 ... s-studies/

So? You just added yet another reason to label America as hypocritical, self-centered, greedy and evil. So how many of your beloved we-can-do-no-wrong free market corporations have polluted the air and water and poisoned the American people? You could have to live in this neighborhood, or drink this community's water.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:13 pm

At a 100.00 a barrel I'd be scraping that crude up like I was a Beverly Hillbilly.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:34 pm

sigma wrote:Willy, has it ever occurred to you that the persistent imposition of American media creation information occasions to discuss the problems the Americans in another Russian, is nothing more than as a substitute for the real problems of America in the minds of American society?...

I guess my comment must have hit home so you had to try and deflect it. You failed.

You are my source not the media! You implied the people in those states are in a bad way after leaving the USSR....do you want to try and tell me they were all prosperous well paid, respectable and comfortable under the occupation of the USSR but now after a decade of two of independence they have become prostitutes and paupers?!?

You are full of it. Talking to you is like talking to a 1970's polit bureau lackey while the KGB is listening to him.

Come to think of it...what is your occupation and do you now, or ever have, worked for the communist party or Russian government?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:52 pm

As for the problems in our country, we may well decide for yourself.
I repeat once again, the U.S. intervention in the problems of other countries only creates stress for everyone. So, no, my friend, let's think together how to avoid situations like the American people can avoid the fate of any invader Russia. While there is time.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:46 pm

Sure thing. We'll sit back as Putin and Russia annex the Ukraine and just declare "peace in our time" how 1939. and so Neville Chamberlain.

they did teach you who he was in world history, didn't they?

Those that forget their past, are doomed to repeat it.

Putin won't stop with the Ukraine.

flip · Post by **flip** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:11 pm

Of course He won't. He has said a number of times without ever coming right out and saying it, that his intentions are to restore the USSR to it's former glory. I predict that each independent, former annex of the Soviet Union will suffer some kind of instability that will allow Russia a police action and then Sigma will come on this board and accuse the US as the cause of that instability. Which is not out of the realm of possibility, taking a lot of other things into consideration.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:24 pm

CUDA wrote:Sure thing. We'll sit back as Putin and Russia annex the Ukraine and just declare "peace in our time" how 1939. and so Neville Chamberlain.

they did teach you who he was in world history, didn't they?

Those that forget their past, are doomed to repeat it.

Putin won't stop with the Ukraine.

You have to wait for the moment when the Russian will be quite not indifferent when the U.S. military will finally be a real threat to the world because of its total dependence on drugs. Then we will find ways to close the traffic channels of hard drugs in the United States military aircraft from Afghanistan and South America to other countries, and of course the United States. And the American public will help us in this. If you're not idiots. If you want to save your nation not only because of the influx of migrants.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:30 pm

sigma wrote:
CUDA wrote:Sure thing. We'll sit back as Putin and Russia annex the Ukraine and just declare "peace in our time" how 1939. and so Neville Chamberlain.

they did teach you who he was in world history, didn't they?

Those that forget their past, are doomed to repeat it.

Putin won't stop with the Ukraine.
You have to wait for the moment when the Russian will be quite not indifferent when the U.S. military will finally be a real threat to the world because of its total dependence on drugs. Then we will find ways to close the traffic channels of hard drugs in the United States military aircraft from Afghanistan and South America to other countries, and of course the United States. And the American public will help us in this. If you're not idiots. If you want to save your nation not only because of the influx of migrants.

WTF is he talking about???

Does anyone have a clue???

Does he have a clue????????

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:31 pm

And you evaded the question did they teach you about Neville Chamberlain in school?

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:10 pm

CUDA wrote:WTF is he talking about???

Does anyone have a clue???

Does he have a clue????????

No idea, nope, and hell nope.