Range War

[woodchip]

A terrible precedent, actually, if they don't, because you allow mobs of idiot thugs to rule the day. Sort of like the Ukraine, actually. BLM should have mowed them down.

Well lets take a look at who the real thugs were. the court order the feds used only allowed them to seize and impound the Bundys cattle. It did not give them the right to:

"On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that "illegal structures" on Bundy's ranch -- water tanks, water lines and corrals -- had to be removed to "restore" the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation."

No where in the court order does it say anything about removing structures. And as far as I know restoring land to its "natural state" does not mean putting holes in water tanks and destroying water lines and fences and then leaving the wreckage. The federal thuggery goes further and I won't hold my breath expecting the humane society to press charges when:

"Bundy's friends say the BLM wranglers told them the bulls were shot because they were dangerous and could gore their horses. One bull was shot five times.
But Houston said the pen holding the bull wasn't even bent. "It's not like the bull was smashing this pen and trying tackle people or anything," he said. "

So a animal was in a pen and the agents of our govt.,in their frustration, decided to vent their wrath on a helpless animal. Lets see what would happen to you or I if we walked by our neighbors fenced in yard and shot what we thought was a dangerous dog there.

On top of all this we have the environmentalist's crying about the poor desert tortoise when the feds are killing them wholesale. Seems it was okay to destroy tortoise habitat when the big boom in the housing market around Las Vegas during the early 2000. It was gotten around because a Desert Tortoise sanctuary was set up from funds generated by the developers. Now there is no market, the funds have dried up and now the sanctuary is forced to close and is forced to kill about half the 1400 tortoises they had. And of course one has to wonder where the other half of the tortoises will be released (remember their homes have disappeared due to development).
So in short, the Bundy's have used the land for 150 years and the tortoises are still there, the "environmentalists" have turned a blind eye to housing development and now 100's of tortoises are being killed and 100's more are displaced from their habitat. So who is the better steward?

[Spidey]

"...but there might indeed be a grain of truth that a bunch of Tea Party types with guns is FAR more dangerous to American life than a handful of Muslim terrorists."

Yes, because the only true American patriot is…unarmed, passive and law abiding.

[woodchip]

I know it was meant to be funny, TB, but there might indeed be a grain of truth that a bunch of Tea Party types with guns is FAR more dangerous to American life than a handful of Muslim terrorists.

So just how are Tea Party members with guns more dangerous than you and your liberal friends with guns are?

[CUDA]

Interestingly enough, occupy wall street threatened more people and did more damge to property then the Bundy clan has, yet they were embraced by the left, one wonders why.

[vision]

Everything is a conspiracy by the left. Didn't you know?

[CUDA]

More like everything is hypocrisy with the left

[callmeslick]

Occupy WS was conducting a lawful assembly(I'd like to know how much 'damage' really was done, but that is irrelevant), Bundy was using taxpayer
owned land for his own use, and not paying for it.

[Nightshade]

Occupy WS was conducting a lawful assembly(I'd like to know how much 'damage' really was done, but that is irrelevant)

I don't think anyone was sexually assaulted at Tea Party rallies- but it sure happened with OWS:

Sexual Assaults Reported in 'Occupy' Camps

"...Tonye Iketubosin, 26, was arrested late Tuesday for allegedly sexually assaulting two women, both inside tents in New York City's Zuccotti Park.

The first alleged attack occurred Oct. 24 after Iketubosin helped a 17-year-old girl to set up her tent. After he refused to leave, he allegedly groped the girl.

The second alleged assault occurred Oct. 29 after an 18-year-old woman from Massachusetts agreed to let Iketubosin sleep in her tent. She said she awoke to find him pulling off her pants and that he proceeded to rape her..."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assault ... d=14873014

[callmeslick]

hilarious how the tactics around Occupy(scare stories, inflated claims etc) parallel the BS that gets peddled around the ACA. Panic, anyone?

Further, and equally funny, how fast the topic changes from Bundy(once one takes a good look at that situation) to other topics.

[Tunnelcat]

http://blogs.thetimes-tribune.com/johncole/

[woodchip]

hilarious how the tactics around Occupy(scare stories, inflated claims etc) parallel the BS that gets peddled around the ACA. Panic, anyone?

Further, and equally funny, how fast the topic changes from Bundy(once one takes a good look at that situation) to other topics.

Funny how the great law abiding slick over looks the lawless acts by the Feds. Oh Snap! The Feds can do whatever they like as long as:

The Dems are in charge...and
Uniformed thugs are the ones breaking the law.

[callmeslick]

hilarious how the tactics around Occupy(scare stories, inflated claims etc) parallel the BS that gets peddled around the ACA. Panic, anyone?

Further, and equally funny, how fast the topic changes from Bundy(once one takes a good look at that situation) to other topics.

Funny how the great law abiding slick over looks the lawless acts by the Feds. Oh Snap! The Feds can do whatever they like as long as:

The Dems are in charge...and
Uniformed thugs are the ones breaking the law.

what laws were broken? Uniformed thugs? Wow, the kool-aid is stronger than I thought. What about jack-boots? Yeesh!!

[Tunnelcat]

Let's see, "officially", the rancher is the one that's broken the law and is openly flaunting it, and those "militia" men look more like common street thugs in their plain clothes while aiming their guns at uniformed law enforcement officers. This is no different than a bunch of gangsters taking over the streets because they don't like the law.

[woodchip]

what laws were broken? Uniformed thugs? Wow, the kool-aid is stronger than I thought. What about jack-boots? Yeesh!!

Lets see, you missede my earlier post so:

1) Shooting a caged animal is a crime

2) Wrecking equipment when your court order does not allow you to.

So keep laughing there as I'm sure being a apologist is right up your alley.

[Tunnelcat]

Bonnie and Clyde were heroes to the public back in their day, but they were still bank robbers and they still broke the law. Now maybe the BLM has overstepped their authority and been heavy-handed in all this, but I can't find any information about what the BLM did from sources other than Fox News or right wing sites, which I tend to take with a grain of salt. HOWEVER, the truth is that Bundy has been breaking the law for over 20 years. It's also a fact that ranchers tend to let their cows overgraze the land and denude it of plant cover, so he needs to be charged with destruction of public lands too. Whether or not the Feds made up some protecting-an-endangered-tortoise as a reason for removing and shooting Bundy's cows should be a separate investigation. And the liberals running the government these days should investigate this one, or they'll end up looking like crazy hypocrites.

[Tunnelcat]

There's no accounting for stupidity and ignorance. His supporters are now dropping him like a hot potato.

[youtube]qhTEdzEiTCA[/youtube]

[Top Gun]

And absolutely no one was surprised.

Seriously how many more generations until these types just inbreed themselves out of existence?

[Tunnelcat]

You can't breed the Posse Comitatus mindset out of the South. It's been in their genetics ever since they lost the Civil War.

[Spidey]

I guess if you squint hard enough when looking at a map, and ignore the history of the civil war…Nevada might be considered a southern state.

[Top Gun]

Brother against brother...the Bellagio against Caesar's Palace...

[snoopy]

I know it was meant to be funny, TB, but there might indeed be a grain of truth that a bunch of Tea Party types with guns is FAR more dangerous to American life than a handful of Muslim terrorists.

It's scary that you think that. Tell me about the last time a bunch a bunch of Tea Party types crashed some planes into buildings, killing thousands and enabling a decade long recession?

[Tunnelcat]

I guess if you squint hard enough when looking at a map, and ignore the history of the civil war…Nevada might be considered a southern state.

True, but Nevada is right next door to Texas and Nevada was part of a 2 state territory called New Mexico at the time. Being next door is close enough for ideals to bleed across, especially in the time of the Wild West. By the way, why does it seem that only racist white guys are anti-government?



Aaaaaand, Ol' Bundy steps in it deeper.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/2 ... 12526.html

[flip]

Ok it's obvious the guy is no scholar, but I think what he was trying to do was compare different types of slavery. The slavery of forced labor and becoming someone's property or the slavery of being given bare subsistence with no real prospects. Both types look at that race as a people without much potential and in my mind, the ones who enslave by welfare are no different than the ones who enslaved by force. They both think the same of them, otherwise instead of lowering standards thinking they couldn't meet them, they would have raised them up to current standards.

Lol, and of course this guy thinks the very same thing of them or he would have been talking about funding college educations for them to clean up the disparity.

[flip]

I understand it fully too, because most of my early school years until we moved to the kudzu I was in Target and Enrichment classes. We were given curriculum and then asked what we thought. Not multiple choice questions and answers but were taught critical thinking skills. Yet, because of an abusive home life that seems to perpetuate itself, I was halted from reaching my full potential. It's a vicious cycle that has to be broken.

EDIT: In fact, I won many awards for my essays and I wrote the movie Halloween 3 years before it was in theatres and I want my dang royalties!
And I'm not talking about the kind of essays where you rephrase everything you read

[Will Robinson]

I guess if you squint hard enough when looking at a map, and ignore the history of the civil war…Nevada might be considered a southern state.

True, but Nevada is right next door to Texas and Nevada was part of a 2 state territory called New Mexico at the time. Being next door is close enough for ideals to bleed across, especially in the time of the Wild West.

Lol, how twisted can your logic get? Nevada isn't next door to Texas, but it once was part of New Mexico which is next to Texas and stuff bleeds to your neighbor...ok, illogical and wrong but ok we will accept your false premise to explore how far from reality you will go to prop up some idea.
So what else is next to Texas and what is next to that...and next to that? etc.? Arent all states neighbors therefore your theory of shared mindset has them bleeding into each across the entire land mass? Lol.

By the way, why does it seem that only racist white guys are anti-government?

Easy one. It "seems" that way because that fits your biased view. There are some very famous racist black guys who are anti government that you ignore to prop up yet another unfounded idea.

[Tunnelcat]

I guess if you squint hard enough when looking at a map, and ignore the history of the civil war…Nevada might be considered a southern state.

True, but Nevada is right next door to Texas and Nevada was part of a 2 state territory called New Mexico at the time. Being next door is close enough for ideals to bleed across, especially in the time of the Wild West.

Lol, how twisted can your logic get? Nevada isn't next door to Texas, but it once was part of New Mexico which is next to Texas and stuff bleeds to your neighbor...ok, illogical and wrong but ok we will accept your false premise to explore how far from reality you will go to prop up some idea.
So what else is next to Texas and what is next to that...and next to that? etc.? Arent all states neighbors therefore your theory of shared mindset has them bleeding into each across the entire land mass? Lol.

So you think that an arbitrary border, in the open West by the way, is a magical solid line, and that people on one side are politically different from those on the other? LOL yourself.

By the way, why does it seem that only racist white guys are anti-government?

Easy one. It "seems" that way because that fits your biased view. There are some very famous racist black guys who are anti government that you ignore to prop up yet another unfounded idea.

I haven't seen any black guys at those Bundy's rallies, armed with guns no less. You don't see them preaching about Ruby Ridge or Waco in some fanatical fervor of anti-government, racist and anti-Semitic hate-mongering, mouthing and spewing overthrow and mayhem at the end of a gun either. In fact, I'm betting if you saw a bunch of black guys standing on a bridge pointing automatic weapons at white BLM rangers trying to do their job, you'd be chiming in for those cops to arrest or shoot the lawbreaking bastards. In fact, you'd be positively freaking out if there were the same number of armed black supremacist militias as there are armed white supremacist militias in this country. Sure, there are black anti-government groups, I'm not blind. But they don't have the shear numbers that whites have. It's safe for whites when they think they're the top dog of militias and that those blacks are just shooting each other in gang warfare. Time to look in the mirror.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/would_t ... white_men/

[Spidey]

The Mormons originally settled in the northeast and were run out of town…most of them went west, and settled in the Utah area, and have little or no traditional ties to the “south” proper.

[Will Robinson]

...

So you think that an arbitrary border, in the open West by the way, is a magical solid line, and that people on one side are politically different from those on the other? LOL yourself.

No TC.
I'm using your own weird assertion that mindsets infect across borders but pointing out to you if your assertion is correct then you can't attribute something unique to only a few states (your method for proving Texas and Nevada were of the same mindset) BECAUSE... what ever it is that you think crossed the border between them will, of course, cross all the other borders and thus all the continental states will have been passed the 'infection' across their borders!

Thus the flaw in your weird logic to try and single out and associate a Nevada loony with Texas.

...

By the way, why does it seem that only racist white guys are anti-government?

Easy one. It "seems" that way because that fits your biased view. There are some very famous racist black guys who are anti government that you ignore to prop up yet another unfounded idea.

I haven't seen any black guys at those Bundy's rallies, armed with guns no less. You don't see them preaching about Ruby Ridge or Waco in some fanatical fervor of anti-government, racist and anti-Semitic hate-mongering, mouthing and spewing overthrow and mayhem at the end of a gun either. In fact, I'm betting if you saw a bunch of black guys standing on a bridge pointing automatic weapons at white BLM rangers trying to do their job, you'd be chiming in for those cops to arrest or shoot the lawbreaking bastards. In fact, you'd be positively freaking out if there were the same number of armed black supremacist militias as there are armed white supremacist militias in this country. Sure, there are black anti-government groups, I'm not blind. But they don't have the shear numbers that whites have. It's safe for whites when they think they're the top dog of militias and that those blacks are just shooting each other in gang warfare. Time to look in the mirror.

Equivocation time is over. Stop before you hurt yourself.

I would bet the ratio, per capita, of anti-government types is pretty close. You want to maintain there are only white guys that despise the government go ahead. I know you are wrong. New Black Panthers..the old Black Panthers..both of them are/were armed to the teeth.Preaching anti government and hate? Farrakhan....Rev. Wright... Black liberation theology, then there is all that Critical Race Theory in our universities and public schools K-12.

No TC, you say it "seems like" because that is a product of your bias. However, if ever there was a group that had a historically good reason to hate the government it would be black americans so I think you will lose that argument by far. You just come up with these 'feelings' and spout them off without ever playing devils advocate with yourself and that is why you are always trying to twist logic to support your rants. Go and ask some of your black friends about black people and conspiracy theories. Ask them if they think black people are more prone to entertaining them. You might be very surprised with the results. And they might be relieved you finally had the decency to treat them as equals and actually talk with them about being 'black' instead of going through the motions of a scared person walking on eggshells and offering platitudes.

[callmeslick]

I know it was meant to be funny, TB, but there might indeed be a grain of truth that a bunch of Tea Party types with guns is FAR more dangerous to American life than a handful of Muslim terrorists.

It's scary that you think that. Tell me about the last time a bunch a bunch of Tea Party types crashed some planes into buildings, killing thousands and enabling a decade long recession?

killing a few thousand people is bad, subverting an entire nation and ruining the economy for the entire populace is worse.

[Will Robinson]

I know it was meant to be funny, TB, but there might indeed be a grain of truth that a bunch of Tea Party types with guns is FAR more dangerous to American life than a handful of Muslim terrorists.

It's scary that you think that. Tell me about the last time a bunch a bunch of Tea Party types crashed some planes into buildings, killing thousands and enabling a decade long recession?

killing a few thousand people is bad, subverting an entire nation and ruining the economy for the entire populace is worse.

What a load of crap. Please give some specifics of how the Tea Party has done what you allege and include factual examples of how it surpasses mass murdering thousands in an act of terrorism.
Oh, and while you are at it, crunch the numbers and please factor in the side effects the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks had on that economy.


You have a bad habit of spouting off this kind of crap like a busted sewer pipe. It males an objective reader wonder just how much irrational hate you have for the Tea Party to be willing to attempt passing off such ridiculous comments.

[callmeslick]

What a load of crap

hardly.

Please give some specifics of how the Tea Party has done what you allege and include factual examples of how it surpasses mass murdering thousands in an act of terrorism.
Oh, and while you are at it, crunch the numbers and please factor in the side effects the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks had on that economy.

the overall cost, if you throw in two unbudgeted wars, and the human cost of fighting them, is close to $3.2 Trillion. A big number. And, fortunately, we as an electorate, proved smart enough, in enough districts not to allow those loons from the TeaBagger collective to gain control. Because, from what they've attempted to do(shut down the government, default on borrowed notes) they clearly would take down the entire economy, at a cost of around $18 trillion per year....forever, because no national economy would survive a very public default, slashed government employment and reduced public services.

You have a bad habit of spouting off this kind of crap like a busted sewer pipe. It males an objective reader wonder just how much irrational hate you have for the Tea Party to be willing to attempt passing off such ridiculous comments.

as you can see, above, nothing outrageous in my claim. The tea party wing of the GOP is the most serious threat to the ongoing security, stability and economy of the US, and 2nd place isn't even CLOSE.

[Will Robinson]

...'blah blah two wars blah blah'..
as you can see, above, nothing outrageous in my claim. The tea party wing of the GOP is the most serious threat to the ongoing security, stability and economy of the US, and 2nd place isn't even CLOSE.

What I can see is you just told me that 58% of the Democrats in the Senate and 40% of the Democrats in the House of Representatives are magically transformed into members of the Tea Party because that is the number of them that voted for the war!

And to make it even more outrageous the Tea Party's origin is cited to be 2009....when did they vote to go to war?
Oh yea that would have been 2002, SEVEN YEARS before the Tea Party became a political force of note! I'm sorry slick but out here in Realville that IS considered an outrageous claim!

But sure, we will all pretend you aren't completely full of crap....again....lol

You are THE MOST shameless liar on the internet.

Thanks for the demonstration though. It shows just how malleable the brains of the Left are. Obama has been blaming the Tea Party for everything and you just illustrated how you guys just swallow the Party line and regurgitate it ad naseum with absolutely no thought processing at all. Zombified. The Walking Dumb.

[vision]

Will gets hard when calls slick a liar and litters his posts with exclamation points. It's like foreplay for him.

[callmeslick]

...'blah blah two wars blah blah'..
as you can see, above, nothing outrageous in my claim. The tea party wing of the GOP is the most serious threat to the ongoing security, stability and economy of the US, and 2nd place isn't even CLOSE.

What I can see is you just told me that 58% of the Democrats in the Senate and 40% of the Democrats in the House of Representatives are magically transformed into members of the Tea Party because that is the number of them that voted for the war!

wow, what an idiot! You really can't read better than that? The war pre-dated the Tea Party by a decade, for starters. Past that, the lack of insight in the above comment of yours is stunning. I never said a damn thing about voting for the war being a Tea Party thing, I stated it as a secondary cost of TERRORISM. Get it, now?

And to make it even more outrageous the Tea Party's origin is cited to be 2009....when did they vote to go to war?
Oh yea that would have been 2002, SEVEN YEARS before the Tea Party became a political force of note! I'm sorry slick but out here in Realville that IS considered an outrageous claim!

But sure, we will all pretend you aren't completely full of crap....again....lol

You are THE MOST shameless liar on the internet.

Thanks for the demonstration though. It shows just how malleable the brains of the Left are. Obama has been blaming the Tea Party for everything and you just illustrated how you guys just swallow the Party line and regurgitate it ad naseum with absolutely no thought processing at all. Zombified. The Walking Dumb.

[/quote]
care to walk back the above, in which you make a public ass of yourself?

[Will Robinson]

Slick you claimed the Tea Party was a bigger threat to us than terrorists.
When asked to show the details your best case was the cost of the wars.
Since the cost of the wars was caused by people who caused them 9 years...oh my bad...you caught me... 'a decade' before the Tea Party could have caused ANYTHING your best case is proven to be another of the whacky assertions by slick.

Spin away....

[woodchip]

I haven't seen any black guys at those Bundy's rallies, armed with guns no less. You don't see them preaching about Ruby Ridge or Waco in some fanatical fervor of anti-government, racist and anti-Semitic hate-mongering, mouthing and spewing overthrow and mayhem at the end of a gun either. In fact, I'm betting if you saw a bunch of black guys standing on a bridge pointing automatic weapons at white BLM rangers trying to do their job, you'd be chiming in for those cops to arrest or shoot the lawbreaking bastards. In fact, you'd be positively freaking out if there were the same number of armed black supremacist militias as there are armed white supremacist militias in this country. Sure, there are black anti-government groups, I'm not blind. But they don't have the shear numbers that whites have. It's safe for whites when they think they're the top dog of militias and that those blacks are just shooting each other in gang warfare. Time to look in the mirror.

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/would_t ... white_men/

Funny how I don't see any white people at the new or old Black Panther rallies or back when the Symbionese Liberation Army was in existence (other than that rich white girl they kidnapped). I did see respectable black folf at Tea Party rallies and if you want I can dig up pics of white democratic brown shirt thugs from the SEIU beating a black Tea Party member to the ground for protesting Obamacare

And TC if those black men on the bridge were protecting their families from white politicians trying to take their homes to build a new shopping mall...I'd say "Right On!"

[woodchip]

as you can see, above, nothing outrageous in my claim. The tea party wing of the GOP is the most serious threat to the ongoing security, stability and economy of the US, and 2nd place isn't even CLOSE.

The only threat the tea party is to the democratic party. The continual wasteful spending by this administration is legion and growing even though the economy is not. The national debt is what the real threat to our stability is and the ever growing militarized police departments is not to counter some foreign threat but to control a ever more restive American population that is tired of seeing politicians living like royalty while we get to eat their cake crumbs. I'm sorry slick but your purpose built blinders keep from letting you see the sinking middle class sitting on the curb as you canter by. Obamacare may very well be the final nail in the economic coffin once the both the individual and employer mandates go into effect. Delaying the mandates until after the elections truly shows you how much the dems fear their effects.

[callmeslick]

Slick you claimed the Tea Party was a bigger threat to us than terrorists.

yes, I did.

When asked to show the details your best case was the cost of the wars.

no, I didn't. I stated the cost of terrorism, which figure INCLUDED THE TWO WARS. And, having been that generous, I carefully pointed out that the Tea Party, were they able to enact their agenda, could doom the nation economically FOREVER(a far greater cost).

Since the cost of the wars was caused by people who caused them 9 years...oh my bad...you caught me... 'a decade' before the Tea Party could have caused ANYTHING your best case is proven to be another of the whacky assertions by slick.

Spin away....

no spin needed. I stand by my assertion.

[Will Robinson]

Slick you claimed the Tea Party was a bigger threat to us than terrorists.

yes, I did.

When asked to show the details your best case was the cost of the wars.

no, I didn't. I stated the cost of terrorism, which figure INCLUDED THE TWO WARS. And, having been that generous, I carefully pointed out that the Tea Party, were they able to enact their agenda, could doom the nation economically FOREVER(a far greater cost).

Since the cost of the wars was caused by people who caused them 9 years...oh my bad...you caught me... 'a decade' before the Tea Party could have caused ANYTHING your best case is proven to be another of the whacky assertions by slick.

Spin away....

no spin needed. I stand by my assertion.

Your assertion is unfounded and based on your fears and rhetoric. Not evidence or history.

In your mind they are more dangerous.
Regardless of what is and has been happening in the real world where the terrorists are racking up kills and causing expensive mayhem.

My bad for challenging what happens in your mind. I thought you had something a little more substantive to work with when you made that charge.

[callmeslick]

Your assertion is unfounded and based on your fears and rhetoric. Not evidence or history.

actually, it was based upon stated goals, and the history of such policies. That, coupled with the proven disregard they have for the law, the nation's economy and credit rating, make the Tea Party far more dangerous than ANY terrorist group out there.

In your mind they are more dangerous.
Regardless of what is and has been happening in the real world where the terrorists are racking up kills and causing expensive mayhem.

try to think outside the box when calculating 'expensive'. Terrorism is a minor puddle of piss compared to the real threats out there. In fact, that relative weakness is what makes those folks turn to terrorism in the first place.

My bad for challenging what happens in your mind. I thought you had something a little more substantive to work with when you made that charge.

of course, in three replies, you've provided exactly zero evidence that my assertion is even SLIGHTLY inaccurate. You have, on the other hand, busied yourself with claiming I am a liar, a provacateur, etc. That is called ad hominem attack, and it shows how truly lame your arguments are. It might have helped had you managed to read my initial fleshing out of the claim in something other than an Alice-down-the-Rabbit-Hole sort of bizarre logic(and then, faulting me for factual errors I never made). Oh, well....too late now.