by the way.....

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:29 am

don't have time(behind on packing fishing gear already)to go over all my thoughts about the mess in Ferguson, MO, but I have the TV news on in the background and this thought keeps coming to me: Where the hell is the governor of the State? I mean, he has a national-focus race riot brewing and a long issue(seemingly) of reported police violence against black citizens, and seems to have gone into hiding. Come to think of it, where are the local officials? Seems like they were enforcing a police-declared curfew last night, but no record of actual government order.
Still, where are the elected leaders out there? Why are they willing to let the Chief of Police and Al Sharpton sort this out?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:15 pm

The story get's deeper and deeper and this may explain some things.

http://www.13abc.com/story/26290495/pol ... nt-robbery

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:33 pm

I must be some kind of stupid…

I just can’t put the pieces together on how a police officer shoots a kid in the face just standing there with his hands up.

Am I supposed to believe that, or is something else going on here.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:49 pm

So far, I'm seeing lots of people jumping to conclusions of conspiracy.

On one side, we have people pointing to witness accounts which differ from the police account ("See? The officer is lying, and the police are covering up the truth!")

On the other, we have people pointing to an alleged robbery as related ("See? The media is lying, and trying to to cover up the truth about the guy!")

Ugh. Think I'll wait for the result of the investigation.

-------

Note: I'm not buying into either of the "he was a thug" / "he was a nice kid" portraits. Honestly, I think they're irrelevant.

The questions in my mind are:

Was the officer warranted in firing his weapon during the struggle at the vehicle?
Was the officer warranted in firing his weapon after pursuing?

I'm guessing the officer has a self-defense argument for the first one. The second one, however...?

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:11 pm

Lets riot and loot. that always solves things. who cares if we don't have any facts yets

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:37 pm

Wasn't it the Governor who removed the City and County Police and sent the State Highway Patrol in to take over?

Other than get control of the streets by using State Police he probably doesn't have any good moves until he knows what really happened.
He already has FBI and Holders Justice Department in there working it along with/over-the-heads of his people.

I don't know of anything constructive he could add to the mix. Posture on camera? Doesn't even know who was guilty...can't do that...

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:16 pm

Funny how quick Holders justice department jumped in on this one isn't it

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:28 am

CUDA wrote:Funny how quick Holders justice department jumped in on this one isn't it

Apparently Holder wanted the police to refuse to release the video of Brown committing a strong arm robbery a few minutes before he was shot 'because it might aggravate things further'.

I'm sorry but that seems illogical to me. I can think of bad reasons to keep that a secret but not any good ones.

And the media is going into full dumbass, or worse, mode by giving the officers home address out to the public.
Is there not enough mayhem to cover? They need to create some more?

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:05 am

Ya the last thing we would want to do is lend credence that he might have actually assaulted the officer as the officer claimed.

gotta love the race baiters coming out of the woodwork again before the facts are out. Sharpton. Jackson

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:26 pm

Will Robinson wrote:Wasn't it the Governor who removed the City and County Police and sent the State Highway Patrol in to take over?

Other than get control of the streets by using State Police he probably doesn't have any good moves until he knows what really happened.
He already has FBI and Holders Justice Department in there working it along with/over-the-heads of his people.

I don't know of anything constructive he could add to the mix. Posture on camera? Doesn't even know who was guilty...can't do that...

Well, the State Police themselves had to break out the tear gas and riot gear last night. Didn't change things or the situation, did it? What do you think the governor should do now? Wall the whole place off and let them sort it out themselves?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:27 pm

tunnelcat wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Wasn't it the Governor who removed the City and County Police and sent the State Highway Patrol in to take over?

Other than get control of the streets by using State Police he probably doesn't have any good moves until he knows what really happened.
He already has FBI and Holders Justice Department in there working it along with/over-the-heads of his people.

I don't know of anything constructive he could add to the mix. Posture on camera? Doesn't even know who was guilty...can't do that...
Well, the State Police themselves had to break out the tear gas and riot gear last night. Didn't change things or the situation, did it? What do you think the governor should do now? Wall the whole place off and let them sort it out themselves?

Keep finding and arresting criminals no matter who they are. And no matter how and why their emotions might be fired up.

The law prevails or the mob does. Two very different choices. Which system would you like to live with? Trying to work around that cold hard fact and be too clever by half is crazy....or politics as usual.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:46 pm

They probably don't have the jail space, nor the money to build that many cells, just to hold ALL of Ferguson's black people, which is pretty much the entire population of the area. Wouldn't solve a thing either. Every black person from miles around would become incensed and come there just to rally and take on their fight. Any other bright ideas?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:51 pm

tunnelcat wrote:They probably don't have the jail space, nor the money to build that many cells, just to hold ALL of Ferguson's black people, which is pretty much the entire population of the area. Wouldn't solve a thing either. Every black person from miles around would become incensed and come there just to rally and take on their fight. Any other bright ideas?

Why do you have so little respect for the ability of the black people down there to use common sense? To make adjustments to their methods? You see all black people as lemmings?!?

Or do you think Sharpton and Jackson and Holder et al are really that powerful as their masters? I admit they are quite effective. But that good? I doubt it.

Remember if the authorities fold up the law in the face of riots then riots rule.

Right now there are reports that witnesses saw Michael Brown charge the cop before he was shot...
If that is the case and the Governor concedes lawfull order to the mob's desire what have you achieved?
Nothing good I'm thinking.

So what is the bright idea if mine is no good?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:46 am

I don't see common sense going on in Ferguson, do you? I'm seeing the violent knee-jerk reaction of the large population of one city to just one shooting death, a death that hasn't even been thoroughly investigated yet. The mob has already hung the white cop, whether he was defending himself against this kid or not. I'm guessing the cop was, judging from the video of this kid strong arming a shop owner. So are the town people's violent reactions logical? You tell me, it's mob rule now and mobs usually aren't peaceful. Personally, I'm not privy to the interactions that the populace has had with the local cops over the years, so I don't know what they know, or feel. All I know is that whole bunch of people are pissed off enough to fight and it's now down to the mob's mentality. And yes, Sharpton and Jackson going down there and stirring the pot was counterproductive and inflammatory. But I think that's what they wanted all along.

I'm not defending the violent protests, either. They are counterproductive and reactionary to whatever cause or gripe these people are trying to put forward to the rest of the country. But the trouble with violent protests and violent responses is that it can be catching, and spread like the plague. It's dry tinder waiting for a match. That's irrational group think, not my opinion. I'm just saying that arresting a whole bunch of people might just spur others to join the cause in response. That's essentially what happened after the Kent State protests in the 60's. The National Guard shot and killed some students, arrested a whole bunch of others and the whole war protest movement blew up nation wide.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:29 am

agreed 100% TC

and it appears that the "eye witness" accounts that said he was shot in the back were at best incorrect and at worse a lie

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:58 pm

Russia will not look with indifference, as in the United States are killing blacks. We need to send the bombers to destroy the police station, which can already be considered a source of global terrorism, to prevent racism and lawlessness in the United States.

vision · Post by **vision** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Sigma really brings some much needed magic to this place.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:05 pm

CUDA wrote:agreed 100% TC

and it appears that the "eye witness" accounts that said he was shot in the back were at best incorrect and at worse a lie

Here's a transcript of conversations from the aftermath video that seems supports the "bum rush" accounts by the police officer. Plus, all 6 wounds were frontal and not point blank, so anyone who said the kid was shot in the back and running away is a lier.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1418488/fergus ... aim-video/

sigma, either come over here and try living in a depressed black populated area of some town anywhere in the U.S. for a year, or quit using that tainted Russian LSD and making nonsense comments while you're tripping.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:56 pm

I dont think it is fair to blame the 'people of Ferguson' for being illogical.

One, it isn't all of them.
Two, some of them are out of town agitators. And I dont just mean Sharpton and Jackson. Some are thugs coming to loot and 'shoot back' under the guise of being outraged.
Three, to describe the effect of Sharpton et al as being "counterproductive and inflammatory" by visiting there now is an understatement.
It also doesn't connect their impact on the situation with their larger role in the root cause of what you described as illogical reaction by the people rioting.

Is it illogical to react that way if you have been, and your parents before have been, taught to believe the absolute worse possible things of white people? I dont think you can put this all on the ones reacting. You have to look at how their perspective was fostered and harvested by the plantation masters of today.

Yesterday I saw Al Sharpton, who made his fame as a community agitator by perpetrating a complete fraud on America blaming a white cop in NY decades ago for the kidnapping torture and rape of a young black girl that never happened at all...he was at a press conference/rally for the family of Michael Brown where they were trying to turn the 'hands up / dont shoot' gesture into a meme...into an icon of oppressed victims protest. And the hands up dont shoot moment never happened.
Sharpton, the complete fraud pimp, talked about how character assassination of releasing the video of the strong arm robbery was despicable..etc. Really?!? He gets to lecture us on character assassination?

Where the hell is the media to shout that abomination of righteous protest down?!? How is it the mainstream media knows all about his history and still gives him a mic and camera to make more false accusations any time he wants it?

I know why, because the narrative he perpetuates is important to the lefties success at the ballot box and so the media helps keep the black people on the left side plantation.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:22 pm

vision wrote: Sigma really brings some much needed magic to this place.

Hmm. Once again, the opinion Vision does not make any sense. But I think we have become accustomed to this.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:55 pm

CUDA wrote:...it appears that the "eye witness" accounts that said he was shot in the back were at best incorrect and at worse a lie

There's conflicting information coming out about the first autopsy.

According to some reports, at least one arm wound is consistent with Brown walking away or putting his hands up.

According to other reports, all the entry wounds appear to be from the front.

And according to all reports, one of the head shots is from above/behind, which could be consistent with either side (either charging, or surrendering).

...I wouldn't start assuming anything. There are too many pieces unanswered at this point.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:04 pm

So, the moral is, I guess everyone needs to show a little patience and wait for a thorough investigation since everyone and their mother is now participating in the critique of this whole mess. The locals have got everyone's attention now, so there's no sweeping things under the rug.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:16 pm

Foil wrote:
CUDA wrote:...it appears that the "eye witness" accounts that said he was shot in the back were at best incorrect and at worse a lie
There's conflicting information coming out about the first autopsy.

According to some reports, at least one arm wound is consistent with Brown walking away or putting his hands up. blocking possibly????

According to other reports, all the entry wounds appear to be from the front.consistent with what I have heard

And according to all reports, one of the head shots is from above/behind, which could be consistent with either side (either charging, or surrendering).that would be consistent with someone falling to the ground?????

...I wouldn't start assuming anything. There are too many pieces unanswered at this point.

don't know about any of that. I listened to the Coroner that did the autopsy for the family. he stated that all wounds were from the front <SHRUG>

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:49 am

So the state Gov. is aghast at the display of a militarized police force doing crowd control even tho he signed the bill allowing them to become such. Just another liberal loon who doesn't know what he is doing to the detriment of his voters:

http://dailysignal.com/2014/08/18/thund ... -missouri/

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:36 am

woodchip wrote:So the state Gov. is aghast at the display of a militarized police force doing crowd control even tho he signed the bill allowing them to become such. Just another liberal loon who doesn't know what he is doing to the detriment of his voters...

No, the liberals just drank the Koolaid like everyone else did. You really need to thank congress, the military and the government grabbing power because of America's fear of the terrorist boogeyman. Our fears handed the government that new power on a silver platter all in the name of security.

http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2014 ... ice/91508/

All those who cherish freedom, liberal or conservative, should be worrying about this one.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/cr ... rned-about

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:46 am

I read one about a full swat raid on a house for a individual who didn't even live there. When a female came out of the bathroom with only a towel wrapped around her, the goons told her she had to take the towel off and lay on the floor. Did the swat members think she had a suicide vest on under the towel? Kinda makes you want to respect the cops a whole bunch huh.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:29 am

CUDA wrote:Funny how quick Holders justice department jumped in on this one isn't it

can't imagine a more clear cut example of a situation that they are MANDATED BY LAW to get involved in, FAST.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:32 am

and, CUDA, I heard both autopsy supervisors saying that it was entirely too soon to identify paths of projectiles. Where did you hear anyone assure us that the wounds were from the front? Now, mind you, that most were is consistent with the two civilian eyewitnesses, who claimed the kid was shot facing the car, fled, got popped once more, and then turned around with hands up and caught 5 or so more while facing the cop.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:39 am

callmeslick wrote:
CUDA wrote:Funny how quick Holders justice department jumped in on this one isn't it
can't imagine a more clear cut example of a situation that they are MANDATED BY LAW to get involved in, FAST.

So where is holder when a black cop shoots an unarmed white boy?

http://www.texasgopvote.com/issues/rest ... ur-0057061

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:20 pm

just for starters, in your example the cop was OFF-DUTY and not in uniform, or IDing himself as a cop.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:26 pm

I was not in America, but as far as I know, the black boy can walk quietly in a white quarters, while walking a white boy in a black quarters, it is simply too dangerous for his life. I have a question, who is more racists in the United States - black or white?

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Welcome the the "You are a racist club" for pointing this out.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:13 pm

I? Racist? In Russia, the Negros is less than the water in the desert. Apparently, you have this conflict will occur indefinitely. Perhaps a good solution would be to put the head of state of the indigenous population of the USA, in particular, of the Indians.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:17 pm

sigma wrote:I was not in America, but as far as I know, the black boy can walk quietly in a white quarters, while walking a white boy in a black quarters, it is simply too dangerous for his life. I have a question, who is more racists in the United States - black or white?

Can a foreigner, of any race, gender or creed, walk safely down the street at night in most areas of Russia? Or drink the water, or travel on a train, or go to a hospital?

http://goeasteurope.about.com/od/russia ... russia.htm

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:32 pm

sigma wrote:I? Racist? In Russia, the Negros is less than the water in the desert. Apparently, you have this conflict will occur indefinitely. Perhaps a good solution would be to put the head of state of the indigenous population of the USA, in particular, of the Indians.

Apparently the sarcasm did not come across very well

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:43 pm

As I said before, in Russia negros is a big exotic. I can not remember of any conflict between the Russian and blacks over the past few years. People of any nationality can be absolutely quietly here.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:33 pm

tunnelcat wrote:
sigma wrote:I was not in America, but as far as I know, the black boy can walk quietly in a white quarters, while walking a white boy in a black quarters, it is simply too dangerous for his life. I have a question, who is more racists in the United States - black or white?
Can a foreigner, of any race, gender or creed, walk safely down the street at night in most areas of Russia? Or drink the water, or travel on a train, or go to a hospital?

http://goeasteurope.about.com/od/russia ... russia.htm

So you can't drink the water OR the booze? What a winner of a country!

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:24 am

You know sigma, I don't know why America even cares about what Russia's doing. We've already got a bunch of ISIS fundamentalist nutcases that want OUR heads at all costs and that should keep us plenty busy for years to come since killing them is like swatting hornets. The more you kill, more come out to sting. We can't afford 2 fronts of military aggression anyway.

Have you noticed that American ideology simply can not exist without an external enemy? Even if there is no real threat to the United States, then they artificially create it! American ideology is based on the fact that they constantly need someone to rescue and provide assistance to someone, even if it is not needed. USA constantly artificially create disorder in the world. ISIS is a creature of the United States. Loonies on whole head, American politicians created an organization to blow the fire in the Middle East, and as a result, the fire spread to the United States.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:57 am

sigma wrote:..
Have you noticed that American ideology simply can not exist without an external enemy? Even if there is no real threat to the United States, then they artificially create it! American ideology is based on the fact that they constantly need someone to rescue and provide assistance to someone, even if it is not needed. USA constantly artificially create disorder in the world. ISIS is a creature of the United States. Loonies on whole head, American politicians created an organization to blow the fire in the Middle East, and as a result, the fire spread to the United States.

That is a weightless criticism coming from the man who blames everything his country does wrong on an external enemy.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:25 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
sigma wrote:..
Have you noticed that American ideology simply can not exist without an external enemy? Even if there is no real threat to the United States, then they artificially create it! American ideology is based on the fact that they constantly need someone to rescue and provide assistance to someone, even if it is not needed. USA constantly artificially create disorder in the world. ISIS is a creature of the United States. Loonies on whole head, American politicians created an organization to blow the fire in the Middle East, and as a result, the fire spread to the United States.
That is a weightless criticism coming from the man who blames everything his country does wrong on an external enemy.

+1