I love Canada even more now

[Top Gun]

Via Canada's official NATO Twitter feed:

Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine

[CUDA]

+1

Que sigma with the anti American rhetoric in 3......2......

[Skyalmian]

A cursory look at Russian history over the past 500 years compared to say, Britain, France, or even America and its "Manifest Destiny," portrays Russia as a nation preoccupied within and along its borders, not in hegemonic, global expansion. The idea of far-flung former colonies is one unique to the British, French, Dutch, and Spanish. Even today geopolitical, socioeconomic, and even outright military intervention in these former colonies is exclusively the pursuit of the United States and Europe.

The United States alone has hundreds of military bases around the world, has been permanently occupying Germany and Japan for a half century, Afghanistan for over a decade, and had invaded and occupied Iraq for nearly as long.

[...]

From Libya, to Mali, to Syria, Egypt, Ukraine, and beyond – the West has engaged in direct and indirect geopolitical meddling and manipulation through various forms of force including covert military and intelligence operations to proxy terrorism, and even outright direct military intervention. As the West nears the boundaries of nations capable of defending themselves and a defense is in fact mounted, pundits and politicians have begun framing it as "aggression." The impediment of Western expansion across Europe, Africa, Asia, and South America is framed as "aggression" just as Adolf Hitler did in regards to nations chaffing against expanding Nazism during the 1930's.

Ultimately, legitimate claims of "aggression" and "expansionism" could easily be enumerated. A map for instance, of Europe over the past several decades showing the expansion of Russian territory would be such an indicator. However, such a map instead shows precisely the opposite – with NATO visibly encroaching upon Russia's very borders behind the overt pretense of "a Europe whole and free."

For pundits and politicians who respond that NATO's expansion was not executed through "aggression," but rather through the voluntary will and aspirations of the people within these new NATO members, the US itself admits this isn't the case. So-called "color revolutions" from Serbia, to Georgia, to Ukraine itself have been engineered, funded, and executed by the US and other members of NATO to overthrow political orders and opposition fronts that oppose NATO, and to install political orders that embrace it – nothing less than what any empire throughout human history has done through viceroys and other forms of proxy imperial administration.

In fact, the Guardian would admit in its 2004 article, "US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev," that (emphasis added):

...while the gains of the orange-bedecked "chestnut revolution" are Ukraine's, the campaign is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.

Funded and organised by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats, the two big American parties and US non-government organisations, the campaign was first used in Europe in Belgrade in 2000 to beat Slobodan Milosevic at the ballot box.

Richard Miles, the US ambassador in Belgrade, played a key role. And by last year, as US ambassador in Tbilisi, he repeated the trick in Georgia, coaching Mikhail Saakashvili in how to bring down Eduard Shevardnadze.

Ten months after the success in Belgrade, the US ambassador in Minsk, Michael Kozak, a veteran of similar operations in central America, notably in Nicaragua, organised a near identical campaign to try to defeat the Belarus hardman, Alexander Lukashenko.

That one failed. "There will be no Kostunica in Belarus," the Belarus president declared, referring to the victory in Belgrade.

But experience gained in Serbia, Georgia and Belarus has been invaluable in plotting to beat the regime of Leonid Kuchma in Kiev.

The operation – engineering democracy through the ballot box and civil disobedience – is now so slick that the methods have matured into a template for winning other people's elections.

In other words, from Belarus, to Georgia, to Ukraine, and Serbia, the US has been insidiously overthrowing governments not through outright military aggression, but through covert military, political, and intelligence operations aimed at manipulating elections and overrunning regimes that refuse to accept the subsequently skewed results. Surely, then, regimes resulting from such a practice are not then "voluntarily" joining NATO – and NATO is surely expanding itself through a campaign of insidious, violent, lawless subversion of sovereign nations, one at a time with Ukraine once again in its sights.

Do they think we are idiots!? This Ukraine crisis is entirely of NATO's making, and to station troops on Russia's border 'in response to' this crisis is self-serving, reckless and wrong.

What if Putin, being a strategic thinker that he is in addition to being a master in judo, has an intention to make not just eastern Ukraine but the whole Ukraine a failed-state-showcase of what happens when the US, Nato, EU, and the IMF causes havoc in eastern Europe. Maybe he is giving a lesson to Germany, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc. and especially his fellow Russians what happens when the US supports the rabid fascists in their region.

He realizes that the neo-cons and the Atlanticists, being the mindless psychopathic and sociopathic killers that they are, are incapable of grasping the lessons and consequences of their actions and will press ahead uninterruptedly and fail to see the trap that is being laid in front of them. Remember that psychopaths always think that they'll never get caught, that they're invincible and they, until the very last moment, will always deny their doom (just ask Napoleon and Hitler). So what if Putin's strategic advisors egged on the Kiev regime to bomb unimportant civilian locations making them think that there was concentrated partisan militia and now scattering the militia in various areas where they can take down invididual KJ troops. Could it be Putin's motive to get the KJ bogged down in eastern Ukraine and at the same time causing increasing revulsion of the people in Russia proper.

Russia is consistently portrayed in the Western media as the 'aggressor' amid the ongoing Ukrainian conflict, however, it is clear through overt moves by NATO's proxy regime in Kiev, that attempts are being made to intentionally provoke, not defend against Moscow's ire. The New York Times, in a recent article admits that the military campaign Kiev is carrying out against its own citizens in eastern Ukraine is overt brutality carried out by literal flag-waving Nazis, with the all but stated goal of provoking a Russian invasion.

[...]

Dismissed by the West as "Russian propaganda," it is clear that even the most "Western" media outlets cannot report on the Ukrainian conflict without coming across literal Nazis fighting for Kiev and operating in "civilian areas" in eastern Ukraine. The BBC would admit the Azov Battalion is far from a fringe group and was raised by the Ukrainian Interior Ministry itself. When NATO members announce "aid" to the regime in Kiev, they are also, by default, announcing aid to literal Neo-Nazi militant groups raised by Kiev's Interior Ministry, like the Azov Battalion.

Using Humanitarian Concerns to Provoke War

It was in 2011 that the US, UK, NATO, and its regional partners carried out a coordinated propaganda campaign including the fabrication of atrocities to justify the military invasion of Libya and Syria. It would later turn out that the "civilians" the Libyan and Syrian governments were fighting were in fact heavily armed terrorists hailing from Al Qaeda. The deceit in Libya unraveled but not before NATO began military operations in support of these terrorists.

In Syria, the deception was exposed and attempts by the West to intervene directly have thus far failed. Conversely, in Ukraine, the West is backing literal Nazis who are admittedly mass murdering civilians in eastern Ukraine, in an attempt to intentionally provoke Russia into war. On one hand, humanitarian catastrophes are fabricated by the West to justify its own military interventions, while on the other, real humanitarian catastrophes are created to provoke military action from the West's enemies.

These 'war theaters' are all examples of 'asymmetric warfare', defined as "war between belligerents whose relative military power differs significantly." We see the ultimate expression of this in the fact that the generally defenceless civilian population is confronted with the overwhelming military might of NATO and Israel.

The Russians are not as daft as you want to think. They are way ahead of the West and they got what they wanted - Crimea. took it from right under the noses of the west.

Think for God's sake! The Ukraine is to Russia what Canada is to the USA. Imagine, if you can, the above headline instead reading "Russia plans Canadian bases to counter US threat!" Then try and appreciate the significance. In other words it should be abundantly clear that NATO IS the Aggressor here! Parking itself on the Russian border. NATO let's face it, that means American gung ho lunacy, is asking, no begging, for a WAR and you are going to be compulsorily invited, even if you live in the Midlands and think it's all miles away! You're swallowing western media propaganda.

According to the ailing wisdom in the West, the Ukraine crisis can be blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression. Russian President Vladimir Putin, the argument goes, annexed Crimea out of a long-standing desire to resuscitate the Soviet empire, and he may eventually go after the rest of Ukraine, as well as other countries in eastern Europe. In this view, the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014 merely provided a pretext for Putin's decision to order Russian forces to seize part of Ukraine.

But this account dead wrong:

The United States and its European allies share all of the responsibility for the crisis. The foundation of the trouble was for NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia's orbit and integrate it into the Wests Control. At the same time, the EU's expansion eastward and the West's backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a "coup" -- was the final straw. He responded by protecting Crimea, a peninsula where they have had a naval base for centuries.

Putin's pushback should have come as no surprise. After all, the West had been moving into Russia's backyard and threatening its core strategic interests, a point Putin made emphatically and repeatedly. Elites in the United States and Europe have been blindsided by events only because they subscribe to a barrage of flawed media views of international politics. They tend to believe that the logic of realism holds little relevance in the twenty-first century and that Europe can be kept whole and free on the basis of such liberal principles as the rule of law, economic interdependence, and democracy.

All which have gone for the most part by the wayside in US foreign policy.

But this grand scheme went wildly awry in Ukraine. The crisis there shows that Fascism remains relevant -- and states that ignore it do so at their own peril. U.S. and European leaders blundered in attempting to turn a Fascist Ukraine tyranny into a Western stronghold on Russia's border. Now that the consequences have been laid bare in costs to both innocent human lives and European stability, it would be an even greater mistake for the EU to allow the US continue this misbegotten policy.

"NATO aggression" includes the actions of all of its "member states". Plus bases.
Global Expansion of U.S. Military Involvement
And more bases.
Ukraine crisis: Nato plans east European bases to counter Russia

It may also be a smokescreen for when the shadow banking system finally implodes. At this point, the average American is so divorced from reality, and impaired from eating junk food and drinking beer, that he will believe it is "Putin's fault." They believed Lehman and the 2008 crash was Barney Frank's.

US aggression throughout history.
US Military and CIA Interventions since World War II
United States military deployments

Compared to:
List of Russian military bases abroad

Russia has the following international bases:

• Armenia
• Belarus
• Kazakhstan
• Kyrgyzstan
• South Ossetia
• Syria
• Tajikistan
• Transnistria
• Vietnam

The US has the following international bases:

• Australia
• Bahrain
• Brazil
• British Indian Ocean Territory - Joint UK-U.S. Air/Naval base on Diego Garcia, a territory of the UK
• Bulgaria
• Cuba
• Djibouti - 9 personnel
• Germany - more than 30,000 personnel, 56 U.S. Army facilities, 5 USAF/NATO bases, 1 USMC camp, and 1 regional medical center
• Greece
• Greenland
• Guam - U.S. Territory
• Israel
• Italy - The home base of U.S. naval ships in the Mediterranean, with four military bases: three Navy bases (Naples, La Maddalena, Gaeta), and one Air Force base (Vicenza) - totaling approximately 23,000 personnel
• Japan - more than 50,000 personnel (not including dependents), the United States 7th Fleet, and the 3rd MEU
• Kosovo
• Kuwait
• Netherlands
• Oman
• Pakistan
• Portugal
• Qatar
• Saudi Arabia
• Singapore
• South Korea
• Spain
• Turkey - Air Force bases in Adana and Izmir
• United Arab Emirates
• United Kingdom - about 11,000 personnel

But of course, it's the Russians who don't need excuses for military bases.

"But of course, it's the Russians who don't need excuses for military bases." Indeed.

I love these comments. <3

"At last, sense prevails and we stop deluding ourselves that Putin and his cronies are anything but a direct threat."

Absolute rubbish. The biggest threat to European, and world, peace is from the US. It is their meddling that has caused the destabilisation of Ukraine. This move by NATO was clearly part of the original plan. You can whoop it up all you like but those same people who run the US and dictate their foreign policy would happily see Europe burn if their was profit in it and it maintained their greedy and paranoid hold on the world.

The enemy here is not Putin or Russia. That's just the story you are peddling. You are only fooling yourself, being fooled or, judging by the blind adherence to the western propaganda program evident in your copious comments, are being paid to try and fool others.

[Spidey]

Well CUDA, you were close…

[Z..]

Yeah, I'm no fan of the Russians, but you all do realize that the entire rest of the world pretty much views us the way sigma does? The rest of the world may be completely wrong about a bunch of it, but what other country right now continues to kill civilians aplenty via drones? Or has bases in 180+ countries?

We meddle in absolutely everything, everywhere. I just can't understand why you guys get so bent out of shape when a foreigner prefers their own country over ours. Our country has a long history of death and destruction of others. We are not close to others on this, to that I agree, but we're not fricking saints. Have no idea why you guys continue to think that. Americans are HATED outside of the US. HATED. (my guess is we are hated because it's people like cuda or woodchip the foreigners run into)

[Top Gun]

In what way did I imply that we haven't done bad ★■◆● in the (even recent) past? However, that in no way excuses other people from currently doing bad ★■◆●. And quite frankly, many of the places that hate us are really shitty places themselves, so I don't lose much sleep over their criticism.

[Z..]

Why are they ★■◆● places? Belgium, Germany, Sweden? Why are they ★■◆● man? Because their first thought isn't "What's in America's best interest?"

Not really interested in what you have to say TG. More or less wondering why these guys like to brow beat somebody that posts here using google translate. Our history books say bad things about them, theirs say bad things about us. We are responsible for lots of deaths and CONTINUE to be. So are they.

[Top Gun]

Why are they ★■◆● places? Belgium, Germany, Sweden? Why are they ★■◆● man? Because their first thought isn't "What's in America's best interest?"

...you really think any of those countries genuinely hate us? As opposed to, say, being occasionally annoyed when we do stupid ★■◆●?

Not really interested in what you have to say TG. More or less wondering why these guys like to brow beat somebody that posts here using google translate. Our history books say bad things about them, theirs say bad things about us. We are responsible for lots of deaths and CONTINUE to be. So are they.

The key difference being that we actually know about and are free to publicize the bad things we've done, whereas Russia ranks almost dead last in terms of press freedoms. Sigma is every bit the living embodiment of what happens when one spends a lifetime being brainwashed by state-run media.

[Will Robinson]

We in the west are much much more tolerant of other cultures and regimes than those same entities are of us. We try to persuade and entice, peaceful influence is our primary 'weapon'. The others start the day with a boot on someone's neck and a warm gun in their hand and ratchet up their methods from their as needed. So when our tolerance runs out it feels more justified to break out the guns. More like 'they started it' even though we are, technically, 'meddling' just as they are.

Look at the heart of Sky's manifesto cut/paste post. It cites our programs to force elections to topple dictators. However, it fails to draw the contrast of those methods to Russian leaders who assassinate their opposition and jail harmless dissidents and roll tanks into a neighboring country claiming some playground 'rules' as justification. Or religious whackos who strap bombs to children etc. etc.

So perspective is often lost when taking our more extreme measures as an example and holding them up for inspection in a vacuum.

An example of the differing tolerance levels:
Yesterday I read an editorial from an Englishwoman who complained that thousands of children were abducted and raped, passed around from one whacko Pakistani man to another like sex toys....as sex toys...

This happened in Great Britain and the police and their governing administration decided to not interfere citing cultural differences and a need to not force these Muslim whackos to conform to English law! And these victims were not Pakistani immigrants either, they were poverty stricken local children that were sought out at shelters and on the streets!

Now, go move a bunch of American pedophiles into another country, start raping their children and start that behavior and let me know how the tolerance compares....(Catholic Church not withstanding).

Right now you can't say "bless you" after a classmate sneezes in America without the school suspending you but if the school wants to have a dress like a Muslim day and you complain you are targeted for ridicule. We have tolerance overload and they have lessons in school on who is the right infidel to murder to collect your reward from god!

So when they say America meddles I say yea, everyone meddles. The how and why are important distinctions to examine before shaping ones perspective.

[callmeslick]

Well CUDA, you were close…

second the hearty to start my morning!

[sigma]

... Sigma is every bit the living embodiment of what happens when one spends a lifetime being brainwashed by state-run media.

You said some nonsense now. State media reported the official decisions and opinions of statesmen. This is the brains of statesmen, but not journalists. Although of course, Russian state media are always analysts' opinions, but only as a comment to the news and their personal opinion. Sometimes they say smart things, sometimes not. But there is always the opportunity to hear a second opinion. Today, I have no reason to trust official statements the United States. They have completely lost my confidence. Although when I read the quotes from the Western media, which provides Skyalmian, I see that the situation is not as hopeless as I thought earlier. Not to mention the fact that I have never doubted the sanity of Americans, which are expressed in the comments, such as for example, tunnelcat and Z... This gives hope that sooner or later, our states will be able to find common ground for mutually beneficial cooperation.

[Skyalmian]

USA's UN lobbyist for perpetual war, Samantha Power, just tweeted the image on top with the comment:

A guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & "accidentally" entering Ukraine.

So SOTT.net editor Joe Quinn responded to her with the image below, along with the following comment:

A guide for the US military that keeps 'accidentally' launching illegal wars, invading, occupying and destroying sovereign countries.

Although when I read the quotes from the Western media, which provides Skyalmian, I see that the situation is not as hopeless as I thought earlier.

[Tunnelcat]

... Sigma is every bit the living embodiment of what happens when one spends a lifetime being brainwashed by state-run media.

You said some nonsense now. State media reported the official decisions and opinions of statesmen. This is the brains of statesmen, but not journalists. Although of course, Russian state media are always analysts' opinions, but only as a comment to the news and their personal opinion. Sometimes they say smart things, sometimes not. But there is always the opportunity to hear a second opinion. Today, I have no reason to trust official statements the United States. They have completely lost my confidence. Although when I read the quotes from the Western media, which provides Skyalmian, I see that the situation is not as hopeless as I thought earlier. Not to mention the fact that I have never doubted the sanity of Americans, which are expressed in the comments, such as for example, tunnelcat and Z... This gives hope that sooner or later, our states will be able to find common ground for mutually beneficial cooperation.

So how to we stop being enemies sigma? Our governments are already engaged in a cyber war with each other and there are enough military hawks and over-patriotic nationalists with thoughts of glory in our government to start a flag waving shooting war. Someone has to come to their senses and blink. Somehow, I don't think America has the will or vested interest to do so. It would certainly be in both our best interests to work together as friends and quit meddling in the affairs of other sovereign countries, but our leaders have other ideas on what's best for all of us. What idiots. We are NOT the leader of the world. We need to be a model that others want to follow.

That's rich Skyalmian. That about sums up what I think about our proactive and invasive American foreign policy. Actually, arrogance and conceit describes it better.

[Skyalmian]

Sigma is every bit the living embodiment of what happens when one spends a lifetime being brainwashed by state-run media.

'Projection'. This was covered in

Psychologists tell us that people (and countries?) project off on others what they don't want to face in themselves. Others carry our "shadow" when we refuse to own it. We confer on others the very traits that we are horrified to acknowledge in ourselves.

• Could this be why we constantly find fault with Putin and Russia?
• Could it be that we project on to Putin the sins of ourselves and our leaders?
• Could it be that we condemn Russia's corruption, acting like the corruption within our corporate world doesn't exist?
• Could it be that we condemn their human rights and LGBT issues, not facing the fact that we haven't solved our own?
• Could it be that we accuse Russia of "reconstituting the USSR" - - because of what we do to remain the world's "hegemon"?
• Could it be that we project nationalist behaviors on Russia, because that is what we have become and we don't want to face it?
• Could it be that we project warmongering off on Russia, because of what we have done over the past several administrations?

Sure, the "Western media" looks 'free' because of the 'democrat' vs 'republican' / 'liberal' vs 'conservative' / CNN vs FOX etc. / etc. divide (and conquer), but they're all part-and-parcel of the same thing at the root. (Would it be worth the effort to highlight that? Does anyone actually care?) The illusion of freedom, of no control system, is more insidious / far worse than none at all. That is, burying the darkness/shadow doesn't make it go away, only fester.

Now all of that, what was hidden / tucked away for years, decades, (half a century?), is now surfacing, and for latest example the rapid militarization of police / lessening accountability for them is one.

'Meddling' in the world when home territory is utterly fucked and is what needs all the real attention will only result in disaster. Maybe it makes people in the US feel better to see the US/NATO stuff go on in the world so they won't have to focus on the economical, cultural, political, and social disaster that is the US as a whole, and/or especially how it's heading for a cliff.

Code: Select all

<@skyalmian> The US financial system is and has been on the verge of collapse, meanwhile, BRICS is developing.
<@skyalmian> Economics reasons time.
<@skyalmian> http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?p=339780#p339780
<@skyalmian> http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?p=339787#p339787
<@skyalmian> http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?p=339792#p339792
<@NobleBot> [ DescentBB • View topic - Russian Lacky's Admit ] - descentbb.net
<@NobleBot> [ DescentBB • View topic - Russian Lacky's Admit ] - descentbb.net
<@NobleBot> [ DescentBB • View topic - Russian Lacky's Admit ] - descentbb.net
<@skyalmian> Ergo, US must eliminate 'threat' by any (fabricated) means necessary.
<@skyalmian> Because after all, the 'Petrodollar' is genuinely at stake.
<@skyalmian> The closer that end comes, the louder they scream.
<@skyalmian> []
<@skyalmian> Russia Announces Decoupling Trade From Dollar
<@skyalmian> China will re-open the old Silk Road as a new trading route linking Germany, Russia and China
<@skyalmian> By Peter Koenig
<@skyalmian> April 08, 2014
<@skyalmian> [/]

[Top Gun]

Orrrrr maybe it's not "projection" and just the simple fact that Putin is a fuckwad. How 'bout that?

And yeah sigma those "second opinions" are working out real well when your country's government frequently arrests and imprisons the people expressing them.

[Skyalmian]

Putin is a fuckwad. How 'bout that?

So is Obama. But let's ignore that and focus on someone half a world away for a new war (because $$$) so everyone can carry on ignoring home turf.

[CUDA]

Putin is a fuckwad. How 'bout that?

So is Obama. But let's ignore that and focus on someone half a world away for a new war (because $$$) so everyone can carry on ignoring home turf.

who's ignoring that???? depending on who you talk to on this board they'll tell you half of us think that

[Skyalmian]

who's ignoring that???? depending on who you talk to on this board they'll tell you half of us think that

Point taken.

[Jeff250]

That map projection doesn't faithfully represent area, so it isn't useful for comparing the geographic size of countries. Namely, it makes countries closer to the equator (e.g., the U.S.) look disproportionately smaller than countries farther from the equator (e.g., Russia).

[Ferno]

Via Canada's official NATO Twitter feed:

Geography can be tough. Here’s a guide for Russian soldiers who keep getting lost & ‘accidentally’ entering #Ukraine

yeah, we're kind of dicks like that.

[sigma]

So how to we stop being enemies sigma?

You want an honest answer? In my view, the United States will not rest until we do not good spank them ass. Sometimes I even want the United States to seriously provoked Russia into another military conflict in which a country like Ukraine, to the war moved to the United States. Apparently, the United States can only understand the language of force. Only when the United States will be on your knees and beg for mercy, then their consciousness finally change. On the other hand, I would not like this development, because I think that millions of innocent Americans should not die to a handful of idiots in the highest political circles in the United States finally understood that they are not the center of the universe. Fortunately, the Russian leadership is not as emotional as I am. They are smarter and respond to any provocation US diplomatic methods. This is the art of diplomacy. I have even more to say. Even I, with my little stupid brain, I see that the leadership of the United States simply does not know what to do, how to act properly in a given situation, and they continue to act in the best traditions of the mid-20th century just by inertia. And they continue to inflate the cheeks to show who is boss, barking and threatening Russia, just in case. Although such a policy for a long time is no longer relevant, and everyone can see it and laugh... Although the countries of the European Union for some reason do not laugh ... And each time, when the United States wave his whip, they jump like trained dogs in the circus. Oh well, it's their choice.
I do not know all the answers, but I think that public opinion in the United States has more right than wrong view of the problems the United States and may have a significant political impact on the American political elite.

[woodchip]

Wow sigma, never realized what a ★■◆● for brains war monger you are. But then what do you expect from someone who has never experienced war. Make sure you enlist and asked to be put in front of the first combat charge of the war.

[sigma]

God knows that I do not want the United States suffered from the war. We are your territory gift is not necessary. Nevertheless, I truly believe that as long as the American people do not and will survive a major war, you never be able to understand that the American troops get up in other countries.
You play the fool, or you really do not understand that for every military base in the United States around Russia aimed God knows how many nuclear missiles? Not to mention all the major cities in the United States? The destruction of all American military bases around Russia this case 20 minutes. During the day, if not less, U.S. territories turn into Mars. All these pathetic attempts US NATO expansion is just a kindergarten, making NATO members to buy a very expensive and absolutely useless weapon. Right now Poland has banned the span of Russian civil aircraft over their territory. Why? Poland wants to show that it is able to scare urchin them bare ass? Today more than ever, it is easy to determine who is friend and who is foe. I certainly understand that the European countries are highly dependent on the United States, but still need to have at least some dignity, not so clearly licking ass USA.

[Tunnelcat]

Wow sigma, never realized what a **** for brains war monger you are. But then what do you expect from someone who has never experienced war. Make sure you enlist and asked to be put in front of the first combat charge of the war.

Have you experienced war woody? In fact, has our country experienced a modern major foreign invasion the likes that Russia experienced with Hitler's Army? Discounting our own Civil War, which was really a war amongst ourselves, nope. We make war all the time because we don't get our OWN soil sullied and our OWN homes destroyed doing it. It's too clean and disengaged for the normal American. Plus, in our system, wars make some people lots of money and profit, so there are no disincentives to NOT go to war. In fact, we don't even live near any borders with unfriendly nations, at least nations that want to actually invade us and threaten our homes, cities and population with actual death and destruction. But the U.S. goes to war in foreign nations all the time and creates new enemies doing it. Sigma has an entirely different and valid viewpoint, one that we have rarely, if ever, experienced and for the most part, like to deny.

[Z..]

Hahaha...the irony of woodchip calling someone else a war monger!

TC, it's a dumb question. He'll lie about that just as he lies about having some sort of degree in biology. It seems like this is not going to go anywhere either; earlier in the thread one of the "smart" ones here suggested that America's primary weapon was peaceful influence! If people can't accept what this country actually does throughout the world, how can their be a fun and thorough debate about it?

If Obama came out tomorrow and literally said "I want America's primary weapon to be peaceful influence" all the dolts on this board would accuse him of being weak and coddling terrorists.

[callmeslick]

Hahaha...the irony of woodchip calling someone else a war monger!

TC, it's a dumb question. He'll lie about that just as he lies about having some sort of degree in biology. It seems like this is not going to go anywhere either; earlier in the thread one of the "smart" ones here suggested that America's primary weapon was peaceful influence! If people can't accept what this country actually does throughout the world, how can their be a fun and thorough debate about it?

If Obama came out tomorrow and literally said "I want America's primary weapon to be peaceful influence" all the dolts on this board would accuse him of being weak and coddling terrorists.

they've already done so, here and elsewhere, when he suggests that it is more important than sheer military might.

[woodchip]

The result of Obama's faux red lines and kinder gentler policies:

Islamic terrorist groups are operating in the Mexican border city of Ciudad Juarez and planning to attack the United States with car bombs or other vehicle born improvised explosive devices (VBIED). High-level federal law enforcement, intelligence and other sources have confirmed to Judicial Watch that a warning bulletin for an imminent terrorist attack on the border has been issued. Agents across a number of Homeland Security, Justice and Defense agencies have all been placed on alert and instructed to aggressively work all possible leads and sources concerning this imminent terrorist threat.

Specifically, Judicial Watch sources reveal that the militant group Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) is confirmed to now be operating in Juarez, a famously crime-infested narcotics hotbed situated across from El Paso, Texas. Violent crimes are so rampant in Juarez that the U.S. State Department has issued a number of travel warnings for anyone planning to go there. The last one was issued just a few days ago.

Intelligence officials have picked up radio talk and chatter indicating that the terrorist groups are going to “carry out an attack on the border,” according to one JW source. “It’s coming very soon,” according to this high-level source, who clearly identified the groups planning the plots as “ISIS and Al Qaeda.” An attack is so imminent that the commanding general at Ft. Bliss, the U.S. Army post in El Paso, is being briefed, another source confirms.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/38 ... k-southern

[Ferno]

^^ and there it is ladies and gentlemen, let's give him a hand for being right on cue!

[Will Robinson]

?...It seems like this is not going to go anywhere either; earlier in the thread one of the "smart" ones here suggested that America's primary weapon was peaceful influence! If people can't accept what this country actually does throughout the world, how can their be a fun and thorough debate about it?

I implied our primary method of 'meddling' was not through force but through peaceful means.
That is a far cry from what you have inferred. Context is key and you are either not bright enough to grasp it or you are dishonest enough to ignore it to pave the way for your rhetorical vehicle...that false premise you and slick tried to build upon.

Peaceful is not mutually exclusive to wrong.
See Obama's mistake pulling out of Iraq declaring ISIS as just a JV team....see Chamberlain in an attempt to cooperate with Hitler....
See the context in which I used "meddling" and "peaceful"....

Or not, and instead, continue to be completely wrong.

If Obama came out tomorrow and literally said "I want America's primary weapon to be peaceful influence" all the dolts on this board would accuse him of being weak and coddling terrorists.

I don't know what dolts think but I think the nature of his peaceful influence would be key. Like when he thought his half sisters Muslim faith and his having traveled to Islamic places throughout his life would pacify those terrorist types if he was elected...that was extremely nieve. So it isn't "coddling" he is up to, it is simply terrible policy based on his ignorance, naïveté and hubris that he is guilty of.

[vision]

....aaaaaaand Goodwin!

Thank you all and good night.

[Jeff250]

To be fair, I believe that Hitler is an appropriate reference given the topic at hand.

[Will Robinson]

Not only appropriate but even if you want to play Godwin's (not Goodwin) stupid meme out it wasn't invoked correctly at all. No one compared anyone to Hitler here....

BOOOO!! Hitler!

I compared Obama to Chamberlain in a very loose way at that since it is the generic use of peaceful policy that is the subject.

BOOOO!!! Hitler!
Grow up, or at least grow a pair vision.

[vision]

Grow up, or at least grow a pair vision.

Give me a break. Is that the best you can do? Bring up Hitler even if your comparison was backhanded? No imagination on this board, I swear. (I guess I'm spoiled since one of my best friends holds his degrees in history and can provide much higher discourse on these matters.) Look, at the heart of this matter is a dispute over natural gas exports from Russia to the EU. The situation is nothing like WWII and Putin (nor the ISIS) is nothing like Hitler, so any comparisons to actors at that time (Chamberlain or otherwise) are uncreative at best and completely wrong at worst. All the warmongers LOVE LOVE LOVE to bring up Chamberlain every time there is even the slightest hint of a conflict somewhere. Yawn.

[sigma]

Plus, in our system, wars make some people lots of money and profit...

Again, in my view is amateurish, the military industry in the United States is one of the main sources of income for the American budget, unfortunately. USA artificially create and sponsor terrorist organizations, in order to then fight them, artificially create military conflicts in order to maintain the relevance of market weapons, artificially create the myth of the threat of an attack by Russia to justify NATO's existence, artificially create and support the opposition in other countries for the development of new revolutions and wars that only the United States could look benefactor, dropping from airplanes humanitarian aid by the same people, which the United States bombed. This is bad practice. In addition, the United States are compelled to dance to the tune of the same Saudi Arabia (which by the way is one of the main sources of extremist Islam), because they firmly hold the United States for balls, as a supplier of oil to the United States and one of the largest investors in American Treasury securities that is a good bargaining chip in negotiations with Washington. Not to mention the problems of American ideology, which originated on the basis of the British colonial thinking. Therefore, the problem is in the fact that the United States will cooperate even with Islamic terrorist states, but they can not afford the courage to cooperate with Russia. Such as how is it that we have done so much effort to show Americans that Russia is uneducated furious aggressive bear-Aboriginal, and now, we must admit that all this time we have been lied to Americans?

[woodchip]

^^ and there it is ladies and gentlemen, let's give him a hand for being right on cue!

And right on cue Fernman exposes his wood-on for all to see.

[callmeslick]

To be fair, I believe that Hitler is an appropriate reference given the topic at hand.

except for the fact that there is ZERO credible correlation between Chamberlain/Hitler, and Obama belittling ISIS as the B team. None. Even less than nothing when Woody tosses in LEAVING A NATION WE INVADED, in the process. It's utterly transparent Obama-hate, pulling hair-brained comparisons out the ass. As usual.

[Spidey]

You & vision make me want to hate Obama.

Poor widdle victim waaaaaa....

[Will Robinson]

To be fair, I believe that Hitler is an appropriate reference given the topic at hand.

except for the fact that there is ZERO credible correlation between Chamberlain/Hitler, and Obama belittling ISIS as the B team. None.....

Except for the now documented fact that both men were naively wrong about the threat and it's potential to spread dangerously across a continent.
As evidenced by Obama's returning forces to counter the not-so-B-Team-after-all ISIS, and of course WWII.

Yea, if you leave out those minor relevant facts that are proving you to be the one who is wrong...sure...

[callmeslick]

You & vision make me want to hate Obama.

Poor widdle victim waaaaaa....

who's calling him a 'victim', other than you? He has the hardest fecking job in the world, bar none, with zero cooperation from those who ought to be on board(Congress) and his own citizens sometimes acting in the dumbest manner possible regarding his job duties. A victim? Hardly, most of this was a given when he was sworn in. It's just that no one here is going to see anything like a true global strategy until ALL US players participate. Blaming Obama for the situation is just inaccurate.

[callmeslick]

To be fair, I believe that Hitler is an appropriate reference given the topic at hand.

except for the fact that there is ZERO credible correlation between Chamberlain/Hitler, and Obama belittling ISIS as the B team. None.....

Except for the now documented fact that both men were naively wrong about the threat and it's potential to spread dangerously across a continent.

I repeat, we left a region WE INVADED. Not quite any equation there, at all.