A Failure in Moderation

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:35 am

I'm not sure what the mods of this forum think there job is, but I don't think closing threads because they can't handle the individuals creating a sour atmosphere is the right way to do it. Closing a thread because the OP has no redeeming value is one thing, closing a perfectly good thread because the usual few start with the vitriol and name calling is a failure in the moderators doing their job. We already had one long time member quit because of the direct harassment by another. Until the mods start doing their job, I won't be starting anymore threads. The mods seem to forget it does take a bit of time to start a thread so why waste ones time to be set upon by the usual 3 or 4 posters who don't like the post simply because of who is authoring it. Or make a reply only to have the usual 3 or 4 start with the name calling simply because they don't like what you said.
So until the matter is rectified, I'll be posting elsewhere where the atmosphere is more cordial. Later all.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:46 am

Yeah it is silly. Now, if they're worried about kids reading this forum section, I don't think they know kids very well. However, a good solution would be to make E&C a restricted and private forum section, open to only us regulars and those who request access. The only drawback would be that a mod or admin would have to "get around to it" which in Admin-time means 6 to 20 months.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:13 am

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:13 am

He's said this before. He'll be back. He can't resist a good fight with liberals.

vision · Post by **vision** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:18 am

woodchip wrote:The mods seem to forget it does take a bit of time to start a thread...

Reposting click-bait takes time?

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:53 am

and maybe the rest of you should self examine.

NAH that wouldn't be pretty now would it

Z.. · Post by **Z..** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:58 am

A man should self examine frequently. It's a good way for early detection.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:09 pm

If you are really getting something out of people calling you a "★■◆●ing hypocrite" and other colorful metaphors, then you are obviously trolling and I'm sure there is a different internet forum somewhere that will be willing to accommodate you.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:21 pm

Two things:

Feedback and complaints about moderator activity is welcomed. [ Note that it should be posted in DBB Feedback. ]

Posts along the lines of "good riddance" are unprofessional, and will be removed.

Z.. · Post by **Z..** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:52 pm

Good riddance is unprofessional? This is a forum based on a dead video game...I'm not sure professionalism has been the true aim here. Your abysmal moderating wasn't fast enough to save your side Foil; the others that wield that sword did better moderating in a span of two days than you ever have on this board.

woodchip and his ilk are not used to getting shut down. They are used to the luxury of being able to hurl insults with no consequences, all the while enjoying the protection of a moderator that will only delete posts from one side. Now that was unprofessional.

Who cares about the rest of it? One down, only forty-nine more million to go.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:53 pm

I see the jerks have won the day.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:29 pm

woodchip wrote:I'm not sure what the mods of this forum think there job is, but I don't think closing threads because they can't handle the individuals creating a sour atmosphere is the right way to do it. Closing a thread because the OP has no redeeming value is one thing, closing a perfectly good thread because the usual few start with the vitriol and name calling is a failure in the moderators doing their job. We already had one long time member quit because of the direct harassment by another. Until the mods start doing their job, I won't be starting anymore threads. The mods seem to forget it does take a bit of time to start a thread so why waste ones time to be set upon by the usual 3 or 4 posters who don't like the post simply because of who is authoring it. Or make a reply only to have the usual 3 or 4 start with the name calling simply because they don't like what you said.
So until the matter is rectified, I'll be posting where I can continue brow-beating those who disagree and where the daily routine is a circle-jerk of likemindedness. Later all.

I suspect this is fixed for reality. That said, I don't see any sides taken by Foil in the time I've been here. He's chastised me a few times, generally deserved, but has done likewise with those that disagree with me. C'est la vie. One has to accept the style and limitations imposed by the moderators and board managers.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:35 pm

Zuruck has a LONG track record of bans from this forum. Foil would be correct in ignoring his comments and consider the source

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:03 pm

Spidey: while the tendency might view my comment as sarcastic, it really wasn't. I view the departure of forum members as sort of tragic and sad, as virtually ALL such departures are sort of due to silliness and/or thin-skinnedness(is that a word??). From what I've seen, Woody's posts are one of the regular features of this board, and it would be tragic not to read them. Do I skewer him for a lot of them? Yup, but I've agreed with a couple, along the way. The whole point is supposed to be around bad moderation, and I just don't see that as being the case. Thus, to lose Woody because of the perception of unfair or inadequate moderation is tragic.......in a board-related sense. No, not tragic in a Shakespearean sense, or like the Holocaust, but in this little world, still a bit tragic and sad.

Nice of you, Spidey to chime in with that mean-spiritedness that some claim only comes from 3 people.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:03 pm

Threads get locked when they become nothing more than insults being thrown between the posters. This is a discussion forum not an insulting forum. If one doesn't like threads being locked in that manner, they should try to steer the conversation away from insults and back towards discussion. Although that might be a rather difficult path for woodchip and his regular opposition to follow, since they seem to have gotten used to name calling when either side refuses to budge from frequently unrealistic absolute positions.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:18 pm

If anyone has anything on the original topic (feedback about mod actions), feel free to post.

[Thanks for the help in cleaning up the thread a bit, Krom.]

vision · Post by **vision** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:10 pm

Foil wrote:Thanks for the help in cleaning up the thread a bit, Krom.

You aren't done:

Spidey wrote:I see the jerks have won the day.

And this proves Z's point.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:33 pm

Actually…no…I had 2 posts deleted in this thread.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:01 pm

After being on both sides of everything, I can only say this: There will always be people who will find fault in whatever a mod does, even if it's intended to be fair to all. Some people will complain, some people will move on. While it might be strange in the short-term, the void will always be filled.

To have a mod change his behaviour to suit one party or one individual is to short-change the entire place.

Skyalmian · Post by **Skyalmian** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:48 pm

Much of what goes on the E&C 'forum' would be more suited for a #descentbb-ec IRC channel, what with the short, one-to-three-line chat-like way many of the threads are formatted.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:22 pm

Ferno wrote:After being on both sides of everything, I can only say this: There will always be people who will find fault in whatever a mod does, even if it's intended to be fair to all. Some people will complain, some people will move on. While it might be strange in the short-term, the void will always be filled.

To have a mod change his behaviour to suit one party or one individual is to short-change the entire place.

+1

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:40 am

I'd add a +2, but that might be too old-school......

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:11 am

Skyalmian wrote:Much of what goes on the E&C 'forum' would be more suited for a #descentbb-ec IRC channel, what with the short, one-to-three-line chat-like way many of the threads are formatted.

You read my mind. I totally agree. Many forums integrated chat is a good lightning rod for overly emotional opinions, which should not be on the forum, and such posts should be ruthlessly deleted. On the one hand we do not lose the freedom of opinion, and on the other hand, inadequate or ill-considered statements will not be saved on the forum. Chat none at all is not binding, but nevertheless, chat will help moderators to understand the adequacy of a registered user.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:31 pm

Sweet, we could bite each others' heads off in real time!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:02 am

Krom wrote:Threads get locked when they become nothing more than insults being thrown between the posters. This is a discussion forum not an insulting forum. If one doesn't like threads being locked in that manner, they should try to steer the conversation away from insults and back towards discussion. Although that might be a rather difficult path for woodchip and his regular opposition to follow, since they seem to have gotten used to name calling when either side refuses to budge from frequently unrealistic absolute positions.

So what you are saying is that the mods only job is to close threads and not to control content? If the mods controlled the content they wouldn't have to close the thread. I understand that is more work and takes someone who is on frequently enough that they can cut the name calling before it reaches the level where the thread has to be closed. Nice to see someone did their job here instead of just closing this thread.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:52 am

valid point, Woody, except that the Mods(I suspect, at least) are not highly compensated for the Mod duties and thus cannot possibly be expected to make Discussion Board Moderation a full time living-wage occupation. When things get out of hand it is OUR fault(ALL OF US, at various times), and ultimately it's a lot of just plain human nature.

I too, find it amusing, when admonitions read, "Keep it Professional". Hell, I had enough trouble with that in my PROFESSION, let alone on discussion boards. Since when can we be considered professionals?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:42 am

In order to control the content in the way you are suggesting the moderators would have to delete practically every recent post in the threads, I fail to see how that is better than just closing them and letting it all fade away. Again, if you don't like it, don't contribute to the environment that leads to threads getting locked in the first place. Like slick said; you share responsibility for how threads you post in turn out.

And "keep it professional" might not be the most realistic phrase for telling someone to behave on an internet forum, but the alternative phrasings aren't as diplomatic ("act your age not your shoe size", "quit shitposting", "stop being an ★■◆●", etc).

This is sort of like politics, if the moderators(president) does something about it, people(congress) complain, but if the moderators don't do something about it, people still complain. So the moderators should simply do what they think is right and ignore the complaints, better to regret what you have done instead of regretting what you haven't done.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:57 am

I really envy the glamorous and enriching job of DB mod. Yes, I do!

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:07 am

Well the downside are people who respond by name calling when they don't like the post or answer the recieved. An example:

[quote] I don't care that his following his predecessor's agreement and the will of the American people (at the same time) bothers some ★■◆●ing twat like yourself[quote]

I don't know about you but responses like this need to be quashed. Comments from slick are usually tame in comparison and I have no problem being called a liar or a loon. Zurucks comments are on a whole different level. By not chopping such replies, what the mods are condoning are deliberate attempts to the closing of a thread by turning it into a tantrum thread. Foil keeps telling us to "keep it professional", I suggest the mods do the same.

Slick has a valid point as to being a mod being like a job. When the mods accepted the position, they knew full well what the position entailed. If it is getting to be too much to handle then it is time to step down.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:59 am

Well, I suspect many of us are not ashamed of expressions, as probably many of us continue to play in multiplayer, different games, where game chats huge amount of slang and filthy language. Nevertheless, each of us has a good intelligence to find synonyms for profanity in this forum. I think we should remember that in the Descent play is not quite ordinary people, because the Descent itself is quite amazing, rare, elite game. And gradually we will be able to get rid of this contagious infection in the forum, use foul language just will becomes unworthy of a decent society.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:26 am

Okay, there seem to be two separate points being addressed here:

1. Moderators have not removed some posts.

This is true, and there are a couple of reasons for it:

Sometimes, it just wasn't caught. [ As has been noted, the moderators have their own lives, and are not omniscient. ]

Note: Please make use of the "Report This Post" function (the "!" button), it helps immensely in calling moderator attention to problem posts.

Sometimes, it was otherwise addressed. [ For example, the quote highlighted in red above, the thread was simply closed shortly after. ]

2. Moderators have closed some threads.

This is also true.

E&C is given quite a bit of leeway, to allow for heated discussion. I'll echo Krom's comment above, that those with the primary responsibility for maintaining a reasonable atmosphere in threads are not the moderators, but rather the folks making the posts.

In most cases, the users here are good about maintaining threads. This is actually quite unusual for online communities, particularly so when involving heavy topics, so this speaks to the general quality of people here.

...With that said, when a thread devolves, the moderators reserve the right to either address specific posts, or just simply end it.

-------

Again, we're not perfect, so feedback on moderator activity is always welcomed. This line of communication will always be open.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:35 pm

We people need to self moderate. if you want to be a dick be a dick somewhere else, we don't have time for it, if you claim to be an adult then Act like one. just because you're over 21 doesn't mean your an adult. and being a dick doesn't make you an adult.
I cant count how many times lately I've talked about the level of discussion degrading. police yourself.
If Zuruch is going to be an ass then I'm sure Krom and the other admins will do what's been done to him multiple times in the past. they'll ban him.

this "DISCUSSION" forum has turn into any thing but forum

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:39 pm

woodchip wrote:Well the downside are people who respond by name calling when they don't like the post or answer the recieved. An example:

I don't care that his following his predecessor's agreement and the will of the American people (at the same time) bothers some ★■◆●ing twat like yourself
I don't know about you but responses like this need to be quashed. Comments from slick are usually tame in comparison and I have no problem being called a liar or a loon. Zurucks comments are on a whole different level. By not chopping such replies, what the mods are condoning are deliberate attempts to the closing of a thread by turning it into a tantrum thread.

So when you saw that post, what is the first thing you did? Did you hit "report post" so that the post could be taken care of before things turned into a shitfest? No, you actively contributed to it by taking a shot back. And so another person then took a shot back at you, and at that point, a mod saw it, and the thread was closed before things got any worse. If you want an individual post to be taken care of before things get out of control, then do things the cool way by reporting the post instead of making the thread even worse by taking shots back!

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:51 pm

I often see a post that should be reported, but that little voice in my head saying “don’t be a rat” always wins.

And of course as many times as I have said…”I don’t like the personal insults”…I have been called a whiner, or grow some thicker skin.

As of late, I just try to ignore someone when they resort to the gutter, but of course…ignoring people just means “you don’t have what it takes, to handle other peoples opinions”…yes this is the basic response to saying you’re going to ignore someone.

.................................

Jeff…you consider Woody’s response of..” What a pleasant person Z. No wonder you were banned before.” to being called a “★■◆●ing Twat” a “shot back”…lol

Give me a break…

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:32 pm

I'm not going to argue the semantics of "shot back"--if you don't like that term, then feel free to substitute whatever term you like! The point is that if woodchip didn't want to see a thread closed, then he shouldn't have contributed to its closure by posting a response that made the situation even worse. If there's confusion as to what kind of response does that, then, after reporting the offending post, just don't respond to it and just let it be removed. In fact, that's almost always the best thing to do anyways!

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:38 pm

callmeslick wrote:valid point, Woody, except that the Mods(I suspect, at least) are not highly compensated for the Mod duties and thus cannot possibly be expected to make Discussion Board Moderation a full time living-wage occupation. When things get out of hand it is OUR fault(ALL OF US, at various times), and ultimately it's a lot of just plain human nature.

Mods aren't compensated for their time in the least. It's completely voluntary.

I don't know about you but responses like this need to be quashed.

When I was running one corner of this place, I did exactly that. And you know what happened? One person kept complaining about it over and over again for years on end.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:51 pm

Ok, I’m going to just step back at this point because, this is starting to sound like blame the victim instead of a case where one was just as guilty as the other.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:29 pm

Well, you can't exactly punch someone in the face, then turn around and complain when they punch you back.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:24 am

A post from Zuruck was removed, but in reply to it I would suggest we wouldn't have to moderate the forum like the people posting in it were in preschool if they wouldn't act like a bunch of preschoolers.

What's that bible quote CUDA likes? The one about being a hypocrite and removing a plank from your eye so you can better see the sliver in the other guys? I like that quote too actually...

Z.. · Post by **Z..** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:10 pm

Heh, Krom you continue to prove my point about selective moderating. My name is brought up in multiple posts, yet it is mine that is removed for telling people to act like the grown men they supposedly are. What part of my post necessitated a removal? For saying woodchip would be better off at Redstate.com?

Cuda said ass in his post, I feel that word is twice as bad as twat, yet it remains? Get the point? If you guys feel like you need to moderate with an iron first, for some inexplicable reason, then do it evenly. Also, if these "grown men" don't like bad words, tell them to turn their filter on and it will block their poor eyes from such bad language.