ISIS thoughts

[Will Robinson]

I haven't seen a lot of people beheaded that I know radical islamists consider the enemy. I havent seen the hundreds of people they lined up and shot last week...
So, again, don't get too cocky.

As to the question...

Hypothetically speaking, from a radical Islamic terrorist's perspective, which group of people, Canadians or journalists...which one of those two categories do you think the terrorists regard as more neutral to their efforts to scare the new world order into accepting their Caliphate?

You expressed a fair bit of incredulity at my saying they are some what equally regarded by those terrorists.
What is so different between the two groups that you reacted the way you did?
Have Canadians as a group done something vastly different to either be less or more of a target to the terrorists than journalists have done? Other than generally being located farther away of course...

If a journalist gets no safe haven because he is also American or Englishman then how does being Canadian differ? Werent there Canadian troops in Iraq and Afghanistan? Didn't Canadian politicians help write the new Iraqi constitution? Didn't Canadians oversee the election of the legislature? Doesn't Canada have a VERY close relationship with us evil Americans?

How about you go get some Canadian press credentials and go for a stroll in the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria...start sending reports of what you see back to the infidel world...see how that goes over.

[Tunnelcat]

Because it was mostly a large "coalition" of Americans and British that invaded Iraq back in 2003, and the few others that joined us can barely be remembered by the locals. Most of what these people saw were the faces, weapons and equipment of Americans and Britons during Bush's invasion. Bush's idea of a "coalition" was a little exaggerated when he claimed we weren't alone. So now we're the boogeyman and the target because of it.

[CUDA]

Revisionist history.
Disingenuous,
and a denial of facts on your part.

[Will Robinson]

TC that's a sloppy little pirouette, all spin and no form, or are you a true believer of the 'ISIS is just a bunch of JV players' bullcrap? I think they are a good bit more sophisticated than your fairytale allows.

[callmeslick]

actually, Will, they are merely a logical evolution of the Al-Q/radical Islamist model: use social media and journalism coverage to both shock the 'infidels' and recruit worldwide, raise money from certain quarters of the Sunni world, and strongarm the rest. A year ago, they WERE the JV team, but, true to the analogy, they have matured a year and are now the varsity starting squad.
Sports analogies aside, and apples/oranges comparisons regarding journalists and Canadians aside, I see very litte by way of anyone here putting forth a gameplan that both addresses ISIS in the here and now and avoids creating the next ISIS or groups of same down the road. Further, the mindset of many who posted above are EXACTLY what folks like ISIS want.....overreaction coupled with overreach by the US is their goal.

[sigma]

Because the United States ignores all international laws, point of view of other countries and international public opinion in regard to foreign policy and actions of the USA, now ISIS can say that Islamic Jihad, extremism and terrorism can be justified as a way to combat weak states with stronger state.

[CUDA]

you mean like the kind of laws that Russia followed when they invaded eastern Europe, after WW2 and more recently Georgia, Afghanistan, Moldova, Chechnya and the Ukraine? Those kind of laws?

[sigma]

Russia has nothing to do with organizations such as Al Qaeda and ISIS, in contrast to the United States.
With regard to the conflicts in the countries that you mentioned, you can always find the true information from other sources that are not engaged by the Government of the United States.

[CUDA]

said the Tass representative

http://www.stopfake.org/en/russia-s-top ... t-ukraine/

[sigma]

I tell to you that UN, US, NATO, OSCE, the central western press, only consider themselves authoritative, but in fact they had long since are not. Their statements may still have some influence on the Western audience, but in Russia and Asian countries, nothing but Homeric laughter, their statements do not cause. It is time to face the truth.

[CUDA]

YES, YES we all know how Lilly white Russia is and how they never have committed any grievances against another country EVER.

“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

[Will Robinson]

actually, Will, they are merely a logical evolution of the Al-Q/radical Islamist model: use social media and journalism coverage to both shock the 'infidels' and recruit worldwide, raise money from certain quarters of the Sunni world, and strongarm the rest.

Another Captain Obvious audition?

A year ago, they WERE the JV team, but, true to the analogy, they have matured a year and are now the varsity starting squad.
Sports analogies aside, and apples/oranges comparisons regarding journalists and Canadians aside, I see very litte by way of anyone here putting forth a gameplan that both addresses ISIS in the here and now and avoids creating the next ISIS or groups of same down the road.

On July 12, 2007, someone of average intelligence was smart enough to have grasped the danger that Obama couldn't...or that Obama completely ignored:

“To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region and for the United States,”
“It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to Al Qaeda.

“It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale.

“It would mean we allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan.

“It would mean we’d be increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”

[CUDA]

That doesn't count Will, Bush said it. and if they admit that Bush was right then they won't be able to continue to blame him for the increasing troubles in the Middle east. and continue to play the deniability game

[sigma]

YES, YES we all know how Lilly white Russia is and how they never have committed any grievances against another country EVER.

“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

Off-topic

[CUDA]

Sorry, you made it on topic

[callmeslick]

Bush's words might seem prophetic to you, but they were restating the mess he created. What was the solution you experts suggest? Keeping troop levels at over 60,000 for, what, forever? Because whenever Bush had that many or less(non-surge levels) the place was a bloodbath. And, further, an expensive one for us, at nearly 600 Billion per year. How would you have paid for that AND keeping the domestic economy alive? It is SO easy for the armchair elite like you all to second guess Obama, but as one long-term Middle East expert was saying today on CNN, he has managed to keep us(thus far) from starting any more multi-trillion dollar experiments in social engineering(the expert's words), and has kept us safer domestically than any President since Gerald Ford.

[CUDA]

Bush's words might seem prophetic to you, but they were restating the mess he created. What was the solution you experts suggest? Keeping troop levels at over 60,000 for, what, forever? Because whenever Bush had that many or less(non-surge levels) the place was a bloodbath. And, further, an expensive one for us, at nearly 600 Billion per year. How would you have paid for that AND keeping the domestic economy alive? It is SO easy for the armchair elite like you all to second guess Obama, but as one long-term Middle East expert was saying today on CNN, he has managed to keep us(thus far) from starting any more multi-trillion dollar experiments in social engineering(the expert's words), and has kept us safer domestically than any President since Gerald Ford.

we aren't the Experts.
but the Man that IS in charge of the experts, was warned by the man that WAS in charge of the experts. and he didn't pay heed to the warning.

Gotta love it's the ALL Bush's fault explanation there Obama has to take off the training wheel someday

Didn't Obama choose Biden as his running mate because he was an expert on Foreign policy??????

[sigma]

Sorry, you made it on topic

Looks like we're back to the question of people's dependence on religion. You talk like a religious fanatic, who does not want to hear anyone but himself and his God, while your God for some people simply do not exist.
Understand finally, for me there is only some sort of a strange country with a strange President, who declares that he is central to all the world, and he wants to take away my freedom. And if I do not obey him, he would bomb me, my family, my home. Nothing, except the desire to catch and kill Americans just because he is an American, I do not arise in this case... I'm not talking about the feelings experienced Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Egyptians, etc.

[CUDA]

Sorry, you made it on topic

Looks like we're back to the question of people's dependence on religion. You talk like a religious fanatic, who does not want to hear anyone but himself and his God, while your God for some people simply do not exist.
Understand finally, for me there is only some sort of a strange country with a strange President, who declares that he is central to all the world, and he wants to take away my freedom. And if I do not obey him, he would bomb me, my family, my home. Nothing, except the desire to catch and kill Americans just because he is an American, I do not arise in this case... I'm not talking about the feelings experienced Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Egyptians, etc.

HELLO McFly!!!!!!!

and this has anything to do with the topic of terrorism and intervention how????

please explain to me Russia's invasion of Chechnya. why did you invade that country??

[callmeslick]

sorry, CUDA, but the observation by Bush, if heeded, would have meant the US spending(from 2009 to now) another 4.8 Trillion Dollars. I guess all that gloom and doom over deficit spending when the spending was to benefit our domestic economy goes out the window when a grand total of TWO Americans get killed by radicals? Thank goodness you aren't running foreign policy.

[sigma]

Sorry, you made it on topic

Looks like we're back to the question of people's dependence on religion. You talk like a religious fanatic, who does not want to hear anyone but himself and his God, while your God for some people simply do not exist.
Understand finally, for me there is only some sort of a strange country with a strange President, who declares that he is central to all the world, and he wants to take away my freedom. And if I do not obey him, he would bomb me, my family, my home. Nothing, except the desire to catch and kill Americans just because he is an American, I do not arise in this case... I'm not talking about the feelings experienced Iraqis, Syrians, Libyans, Egyptians, etc.

HELLO McFly!!!!!!!

and this has anything to do with the topic of terrorism and intervention how????

please explain to me Russia's invasion of Chechnya. why did you invade that country??

OK, I give you this help especially for you, CUDA. Chechnya - is not a country. Chechnya - this is exactly the same subject of the Russian Federation, such as Oregon in the United States.
Georgia under the influence of the United States actually declared war on Russia and Abkhazia and invaded Russia. Afghanistan was a product of the Cold War of the United States, so the Soviet Union could not ignore it. The conflict in Moldova in general was more hyped by the Western press than it actually mattered. In Chechnya acted extremist Islamic mercenaries, who were trained by terrorist methods of warfare in specialized training centers in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and NATO bases. Despite the fact that the United States in Ukraine created and still maintain was a neo-Fascist regime, Russia only deliver humanitarian assistance to civilians who are suffering from the civil war in Ukraine. I do not deny that from all over Russia to Ukraine went volunteers who have previously been involved in wars to protect Russian Ukrainians from the Ukrainian-American fascist government and mercenaries from around the world who are Ukrainian oligarchs pay money. I am proud of what I see yet another confirmation of the fact that Russian never give other Russian in trouble.

[callmeslick]

wow, you're completely out-of-touch with reality, Sigma. You cannot produce ONE ITEM of independent proof that Georgia even entered Russian territory, let alone 'declared war', which they didn't. The rest of your rant is equally specious.

[sigma]

wow, you're completely out-of-touch with reality, Sigma. You cannot produce ONE ITEM of independent proof that Georgia even entered Russian territory, let alone 'declared war', which they didn't. The rest of your rant is equally specious.

You do not know what really happened.

[callmeslick]

wow, you're completely out-of-touch with reality, Sigma. You cannot produce ONE ITEM of independent proof that Georgia even entered Russian territory, let alone 'declared war', which they didn't. The rest of your rant is equally specious.

You do not know what really happened.

if so, I apparently have company. Feel free to provide proof of your assertion, outside the realm of your jingoistic, corrupt press.

[Jeff250]

Their statements may still have some influence on the Western audience, but in Russia and Asian countries, nothing but Homeric laughter, their statements do not cause.

In which parts of Asia would their press support the Russian version of events regarding, say, Ukraine?

[callmeslick]

Their statements may still have some influence on the Western audience, but in Russia and Asian countries, nothing but Homeric laughter, their statements do not cause.

In which parts of Asia would their press support the Russian version of events regarding, say, Ukraine?

or Georgia, which I asked about. I'm curious as well.

[sigma]

wow, you're completely out-of-touch with reality, Sigma. You cannot produce ONE ITEM of independent proof that Georgia even entered Russian territory, let alone 'declared war', which they didn't. The rest of your rant is equally specious.

You do not know what really happened.

if so, I apparently have company. Feel free to provide proof of your assertion, outside the realm of your jingoistic, corrupt press.

Provide links to the sources on which you are questioning information from "a corrupt Russian press." I will answer you with pleasure.

[CUDA]

AH the Ol' I dont have evidence but I want you to prove me wrong before I dodge reality trick.


Missed it by that much

[CUDA]

Slick, it doesn't matter what you produce. some how Sigma will tie it to the US and call it a Lie

[callmeslick]

really clumsy dodge. Sigma, here is the request: find a source outside the Russian media that confirms your account of the Georgia invasion by Russia.
If you can't find one, that's a pretty good sign that your own media/government lied to you, which they've been doing for a decade or more in a very transparent(to the whole rest of the world) attempt to ratchet up nationalistic fervor.

[sigma]

If you think that you have successfully painted out the main theme and now no one sees that you do not want to answer questions on the topic of conversation, you can consider yourself ostriches who bury their heads in the sand. Congratulate yourself with this little victory.

[CUDA]

The issue of freedom of the press in Russia involves both the ability of directors of mass media outlets to carry out independent policies and the ability of journalists to access sources of information and to work without outside pressure. Media of Russia include television and radio channels, periodicals, and Internet media, which according to the laws of the Russian Federation may be either state or private property.

Various aspects of the contemporary press freedom situation are criticized by multiple international organizations.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] While much attention is paid to political influences, media expert William Dunkerley, a senior fellow at American University in Moscow, argues that the genesis of Russia's press freedom woes lies in sectoral economic dysfunction.[10]

The Russian constitution provides for freedom of speech and press, however, government application of law, bureaucratic regulation, and politically motivated criminal investigations have forced the press to exercise self-censorship constraining its coverage of certain controversial issues, resulting in infringements of these rights.[2][3][11] According to Human Rights Watch, the Russian government exerts control over civil society through selective implementation of the law, restriction and censure.[6]

In 2013 Russia ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index from Reporters Without Borders

[CUDA]

I know, my whole post is BS because it came from the "AMERICAN" university in Moscow

[Will Robinson]

Slick you are, once again, either being dishonest or illogical.

The cost of fighting the wars is not the same expense we would face if we had kept troops there that would have deterred a growth of radical Islam in Iraq.

Further, between relocating assets from areas that we don't need them...Europe, Japan, etc, and putting them in the new 'danger zone' the cost would be a net increase of some where around negligible....
Certainly not the inflated cost you quote that probably includes everything spent to gear up and fight two wars.

Also, not half assed meddling with Syria would have kept ISIS from growing there!
Obama has fumbled the foreign policy football every time he tries to play the game. He should stick to domestic agitation where he at least understands the rules of the game.

[callmeslick]

I haven't seen a lot of people beheaded.

by the way, before I get too distracted by Sigma, I'd like to go on record as saying that the above is VERY reassuring news.

[sigma]

really clumsy dodge. Sigma, here is the request: find a source outside the Russian media that confirms your account of the Georgia invasion by Russia.
If you can't find one, that's a pretty good sign that your own media/government lied to you, which they've been doing for a decade or more in a very transparent(to the whole rest of the world) attempt to ratchet up nationalistic fervor.

Dude, you do not trust Russian media, why do you continue to provide you with links to this story? Or are you asking me to understanding English only with the help of an online translator to search for you article western analysts who really know the situation and who can you trust?

[callmeslick]

Slick you are, once again, either being dishonest or illogical.

The cost of fighting the wars is not the same expense we would face if we had kept troops there that would have deterred a growth of radical Islam in Iraq.

Will,until the surge, we had 60,000 troops there and radical Islam damn near cost control of all of western Iraq. Remember?

Further, between relocating assets from areas that we don't need them...Europe, Japan, etc, and putting them in the new 'danger zone' the cost would be a net increase of some where around negligible....

first off, given recent events from Korea to Ukraine and more, you wish to gut presence in Asia and Europe? To address a problem that really doesn't have anywhere near the threat potential. Further, how are you going to hurry up and 'wind down' so as not to incur the costs I laid out?

Certainly not the inflated cost you quote that probably includes everything spent to gear up and fight two wars.

no, that was the calculation of ongoing costs, after all was in place. You see, it isn't ME being dishonest or illogical. Try again, chum.

[callmeslick]

really clumsy dodge. Sigma, here is the request: find a source outside the Russian media that confirms your account of the Georgia invasion by Russia.
If you can't find one, that's a pretty good sign that your own media/government lied to you, which they've been doing for a decade or more in a very transparent(to the whole rest of the world) attempt to ratchet up nationalistic fervor.

Dude, you do not trust Russian media, why do you continue to provide you with links to this story? Or are you asking me to understanding English only with the help of an online translator to search for you article western analysts who really know the situation and who can you trust?

no, I'm saying to find some other(Asian?) source, and we can translate together. How about that?

[sigma]

Finally, I realized my mistake. Now it is clear that meant Skyalmian...
With people who do not know where the Crimea, what is Chechnya, what is Russia, and they do not want to know the modern history, just does not make sense to discuss these issues seriously. Most likely, I will refrain from discussing political issues here

[CUDA]

Just as well you only parrot what your state run media says anyways. and when challenged you choose to say "I will refrain from discussing political issues here" kind of proves that you don't really want to know the truth now do you?