Descent 3 startup problems

falukropp · Post by **falukropp** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:24 pm

Dusted off the old D3 cd:s and installed the game, looking forward to play this old gem again.
Tried to start it, and the screen went black for a few seconds, then nothing more happened, and I got back to the desktop.
Patched the game to 1.40, but the problem persisted.
So I went out on the Internet looking for a solution. Found this FAQ: http://www.descent3.com/9_faq.html

The third question/answer describes the problem perfectly.
However, I'm quite sure there are ways to get it to work on a newer system, whatever that FAQ says.
So, what I wonder is if anyone know any workarounds.

Here are the parts of my hardware that I figured could cause the trouble:

Geforce FX 5900 (Quite sure this is the source of my problem. However, games that works on Riva TNT/older Geforce cards usually works with the newer Geforce ones too. Using quite recent drivers, Forceware 53.03)

P4 2.8 GHz (Hyperthreading enabled, this could be a possible reason too)

1 GB ram (experienced a few cases where games started to behave strange with too much memory installed, Ultima 8 for example)

So, is there any hope? Or should I just give up?
Any input is appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:32 pm

What version of Windows are you using?

Have you run the descent3 configuration/setup screen in the launcher first? Or at least set the video renderer, I highly reccommend OpenGL as it is far less buggy then D3D. Check your sound settings, directsound works best in Windows 2000/XP, software works best in Windows9x for most people. (do not listen to Mobius if he posts on the sound subject)

Otherwise, if you are running windows XP you can probably find some info on whatever caused D3 to CTD in the event log.

-Krom

P.S.

falukropp · Post by **falukropp** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:46 am

First of all, thanks for the reply!

Sorry, forgot to mention the OS. It's XP Pro, SP1a. And maybe it's of some use to know I use DX9b too

Yep, ran the configurer. Tried both Open GL and D3D, however, when trying other things I kept that setting on D3D, the configurer actually suggests using D3D over OpenGL.

As for the sound, only tried Direct Sound, the Software option is greyed out for some reason, and I guess using Directsound 3d won't help either. But if Directsound is recommended, thats not a problem

Checked the event log. The crashes produces nothing there. I'll see if I can find some way to log what happens on the system in a bit more detail.

Oh, and I tried running the game in different app compatibility modes (yes, set it on both Descent 3.exe and main.exe).
Didn't help at all, never thought it would either, but had to try

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:29 am

your refresh rate you have for 640x480 default (which D3 uses to boot) is too much for you monitor. Overide it in the advanced portion of video card control panel to 60 75 ot 85. that should take care of the black screen (PS make sure Digital Vibrance is OFF). Then in d3 control panel make sure you disable find fast and are running video card in Open GL.

if after all this... you might just have a corrupted install

falukropp · Post by **falukropp** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:41 am

BUBBALOU, it never gets as far as trying to switch resolution. To me it seems like it fails to even initialize the gfx card.
I tried your suggestion to set the refresh rate to 60 Hz in 640x480 (60 Hz if anything should work if that was the problem). It didn't work :/

I doubt the monitor would be a cause of problems though, it's one of Sony's top notch models. Think it can do 240 Hz in 640x480 if I dont remember it all wrong

Thanks for your input anyways!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:15 am

Yes I am aware setup recommends D3D over OpenGL but that was a warning that was put in that was related to buggy OpenGL drivers 5 years ago. Things have changed a lot and Descent3's D3D implimentation is definately inferior to OpenGL.

Something that might help us, is if you sent us a list of your command lines. And if you have installed the nocd patch or modified D3 in any way from when you installed it let us know.

On my own system (Athlon XP @ 2.40 GHz + Geforce FX 5900 Ultra) I use this command line for a shortcut to directly launch D3: D:\Games\Descent3\MAIN.EXE -launched -framecap 0 -nointro -nosparkles -nomotionblur -deadzone0 0.06 -deadzone1 0.06 -nomusic -usesmoothing -width 1152 -height 864

-nointro is something you can try, see if it helps any.

I am using the current 56.72 series driver for my Geforce, you might try updating to this set. However 53.03 worked for me, should be fine for you as well. I would check all the settings in the display control panel and make sure there are no settings wich might cause D3 to fail. Incorrect refresh overrides can cause D3 to not start up, but it would give you an error saying that it could not initilize the video driver.

DigiJo · Post by **DigiJo** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:20 am

tried the d3 1.4 nocd-patch? i have 2 d3-versions on cd, and the older from a collection-pack has a weird copy-protection like laserlock that causes trouble sometimes.

http://teamnub.com/tools/d314nocd.zip

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:17 pm

falukropp wrote:BUBBALOU, it never gets as far as trying to switch resolution. To me it seems like it fails to even initialize the gfx card.
I tried your suggestion to set the refresh rate to 60 Hz in 640x480 (60 Hz if anything should work if that was the problem). It didn't work :/

Bubba was referring to this:

falukropp · Post by **falukropp** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:03 pm

Krom;
Yep, thats true. Happened a lot over the years since D3 was released. However, it seems like OpenGL is slowly dieing. So figured D3D would be the better alternative, thought the D3D drivers might have gotten more attention from Nvidia. Thats why I tried with it

Just installed the game and tried to run it, didn't add any parameters to the shortcut. And I'm not using any no cd patches. I'll try using a CD crack, as DigiJo suggests, those old copy protection schemes can behave strange now and then. Just tried to rip the cd:s and mount em with Daemontools using Laserlock emulation.

Tried adding -launched -nointro, but still got the same problem. Also tried your full line, but without success.

You got almost the same gfx card as I have, and it works for you (think the difference between the 5900 and 5900 Ultra is just the clock speed), so beginning to believe it's D3 disliking hyperthreading.
I'll try to find out if there's any way to execute main.exe on only one cpu from the beginning. Bringing the task manager up once I executed main.exe and setting the cpu affinity will obviously not work.

If that won't work, or I can't find a way to execute main.exe on cpu0 at all, I'll try the 56.72 drivers.

Haven't gotten any error msg's at all, whatever i tried. Did as Bubbalou suggested and locked the refresh rates, it behaved the same way, the screen went black, as if it tried to initialize the gfx card, but failed.

DigiJo;
Thanks for the link! Maybe I should have told this before, I got the euro version of D3. I'll try to get a CD crack for it and try if that helps. And yes, the version I got is protected with Laserlock. That might be the source of the problem.
It sounds like you've had problems with the Laserlock protected version aswell, did it behave the the way I described in my initial post without the CD crack?

MD-2389;
Yep, and that was what I tried

It didn't help though :/

By the way, I'm completely astonished by the reception I got here. You guys really rock.
Maybe i should mention english ain't my mother tongue. So if I am indistinct in any way, just ask again and I'll try to explain it in a better way

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:28 pm

I've had a similar problem.

Sounds to me like you need to install monitor drivers.

I'd like to suggest that first, however, you try inserting a commandline under the misc. tab of your D3 launcher/setup application. Add -nointro in the command line area. WinXP has a problem with certain types of videos in older software, including AVI files. The reason I suggest you try this is that the -launched parameter only applies to shortcuts which point at MAIN.exe in the Descent 3 directory. If you are using the launcher to run D3, disregard that commandline. If you're using a shortcut to Main.exe, disregard this first suggestion.

IF that doesn't solve your problem, try the following:

Make sure you have the most recent monitor driver FROM THE MANUFACTURER. Don't use the crap that XP defaults you to.

I couldn't get my WinXP home LAN box to run on my old KDS@View KD700 monitor until I installed a driver for it. I'd start the game, the monitor would click (yeah it's old) and the screen would go black and eventually return me to the desktop. D3 doesn't like the 'default' winXP monitor drivers, and unless the monitor had a WHQL driver @ the time of ship, you're running some sort of default or plug'n'play driver.

falukropp · Post by **falukropp** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:31 pm

WarAdvocat;

Tried adding the -nointro switch in the setup program before I made the shortcut to main.exe with the -nointro -launched parameters. Didn't work :/

I'm using the "driver" from Sony for my monitor already

Monitor "drivers" aren't really drivers, just descriptions what modes the monitor can handle. Can imagine the monitor might go nuts if windows detects it wrong in some way and lets apps initialize gfx modes the monitor can't handle :>

I'm 101% sure the monitor itself ain't the problem, it never gets as far as to change gfx mode. It's more like it can't initialize openGL or something like that.
Thanks for your input anyways

De Rigueur · Post by **De Rigueur** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:46 pm

I had the same problem you described. I even have a 5900 (latest drivers). What was happening in my case was this: I use earthlink's 'task panel' software and for whatever reason, games won't run when it is running. So I have to exit task panel to get D3 to run. I still have a problem w/ lockups at certain resolutions, though. I run at 640x480, I think.

So maybe you've got some software that's interfering w/ D3.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:13 pm

falukropp wrote:You got almost the same gfx card as I have, and it works for you (think the difference between the 5900 and 5900 Ultra is just the clock speed), so beginning to believe it's D3 disliking hyperthreading.

Just a quick note: I've a very similar setup to yours (incl. 1Gb, P4 w/ HT on, XPP, 5950U card) and D3 just works fine. Before the 5950U I had a 5900U and I never had that effect you describe, even w/ older Detonator drivers (running 61.21 right now).

Back to reading the rest of this thread..

Edit:

falukropp wrote:Krom;
Yep, thats true. Happened a lot over the years since D3 was released. However, it seems like OpenGL is slowly dieing. So figured D3D would be the better alternative, thought the D3D drivers might have gotten more attention from Nvidia. Thats why I tried with it

OpenGL is far from going extinct -- nVidia just upgraded to OpenGL 1.5 and still fully supports/develops it. W/ a nVidia card you definately want to use the OGL renderer, it's far superior over D3D (note that instead of the "disappearing reticle bug" you'll have to deal w/ the "white square in reticle bug" tho

)

Edit2:
If you are running the nVidia Desktop Manager, try disabling it -- that thing causes a lot of problems..

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Nah, the nvidia desktop manager shouldnt bother it I run that (and a dualview display on top of that).

Try adding -nopentium3 to the command line, I have heard of that fixing problems with D3. Oh yeah, if you are still running compatibility mode on D3, disable it, D3 can run native in XP and should be run that way.

I really do not think this is a incorrect monitor driver or refresh rate problem, if it were D3 would give a error initlizing directdraw.

If none of that works I would try updating those video drivers.

pATCheS · Post by **pATCheS** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:10 am

I've found with older Detonator drivers that D3 doesn't like it when you force it to a refresh other than 60hz. I tested it just now to be sure, though, and was surprised to find that it works just fine o.0 Seeing that this occurs with both D3D and OpenGL, this is the only reasonable assumption that can be made at this point. And, of course, make sure you're using the latest working drivers you can get for your card. A good place to look is Guru3D. A little heads-up: sometimes a driver really really sucks for a particular card, including the WHQL ones (a friend of mine experienced this with his FX5200 a couple of weeks ago), so be sure to try the next newest driver if the latest doesn't work

I use the nView desktop manager thingy without issues at all (but probably because I only use a minimum of its features, like dialog and application placement between the two monitors)...

"WinXP has a problem with certain types of videos in older software, including AVI files."

D3 doesn't use any Windows systems to decode its video, it just blits what its internal MVE decoder generates to the screen using DirectDraw (I think

). MVE is a proprietary Interplay format btw, Windows has nothing to do with it. It's definitely something else.

If you're using the Euro version, you may need to get a CD crack specific to that version. I don't know if the US binary is any different from the Euro one, but I know that the binaries for the other localizations are.