What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:13 pm

As mouthed by a "capitalist", and a bunch of other capitalists, on Fox News. Sick scrooges. It's the new reality known as Grey Thursday, or Christmas creep. So, should Black Friday be moved up into Thanksgiving, at the expense of their workers wanting to spend quality time at home for ONE MEASLY LITTLE DAY with their families? I guess the God of money doesn't want people taking one little day off. Oh my! One day with no profits! God forbid!

Skip forward to the Lewis Black segment at the 9 minute point below for his take on it.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episode ... a-chastain

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:24 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Oh my! One day with no profits! God forbid!

or maybe it's one day with no paycheck. HRM I wonder which once is more devastating to the individual employee

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:26 pm

tunnelcat wrote:As mouthed by a "capitalist", and a bunch of other capitalists, on Fox News. Sick scrooges. It's the new reality known as Grey Thursday, or Christmas creep. So, should Black Friday be moved up into Thanksgiving, at the expense of their workers wanting to spend quality time at home for ONE MEASLY LITTLE DAY with their families? I guess the God of money doesn't want people taking one little day off. Oh my! One day with no profits! God forbid!

Skip forward to the Lewis Black segment at the 9 minute point below for his take on it.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episode ... a-chastain

In my view: There a very simple solution for the "store open" side of this: make sure there's no demand. If no one goes out shopping on thanksgiving, it won't be worth the company's money to be open. [That doesn't solve the "you have to come in to help with stocking" side.]

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:12 pm

CUDA wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:Oh my! One day with no profits! God forbid!
or maybe it's one day with no paycheck. HRM I wonder which once is more devastating to the individual employee

This coming from a religious man of faith who should be complaining about how Sunday closing laws have gone by the wayside. So a SINGLE DAY out of the WHOLE MONTH so employees can have a holiday and visit with family is a hardship for business? Tough sh*t. Even Christmas Day is no longer sacrosanct. Sad.

snoopy wrote:In my view: There a very simple solution for the "store open" side of this: make sure there's no demand. If no one goes out shopping on thanksgiving, it won't be worth the company's money to be open. [That doesn't solve the "you have to come in to help with stocking" side.

I don't go to the stores on Thanksgiving or Christmas and most people shouldn't GO to the stores and encourage the practice of opening on that day. Idiots. Maybe THEY should have a dose of working on Thanksgiving, or even Christmas and get a taste of what's it like to serve the almighty dollar instead of visiting with family.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:13 pm

you failed to answer my question.

besides you were talking about T-day. that is not a religious holiday last I checked. if you want to discuss my views on Sunday work that is a different subject

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:34 pm

OK, why NOW do stores require employees to work on Thanksgiving? TRADITIONALLY, Thanksgiving is a national holiday, so traditionally, stores let off their workers either early, or for the whole day, to be with their FAMILIES. I thought you conservatives loved the preservation of anything to do with the family, so why corrupt a really old and long observed holiday with forced servitude for a single day's profit or unemployment as choices? What's the matter, do money and profits now take precedent over family now?

vision · Post by **vision** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:55 pm

tunnelcat wrote:What's the matter, do money and profits now take precedent over family now?

Shots fired.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:57 pm

I want to see him untie his knot of an explanation for this one.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:03 pm

You still dodge my question. Are you afraid of the otherside of the equation?

Why is a day off better for the family then a paycheck.
you want to blame capitalism. Maybe you should blame consumerism. But that wouldnt fit into your blind agenda of blaming business for all the worlds problems would it. If people didn't want to shop on thanksgiving, then businesses wouldn't be open on thanksgiving, and as an employer, if you choose to work for me, you work by my rules.
personally, I wouldn't be open. Buy as an employee I have a choice, follow the rules. Or find another job.

now answer my question.

why is the day off better for the family the a paycheck

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:59 pm

Double time for national holidays.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:14 pm

Spidey wrote:Double time for national holidays.

greedy capitalist, how dare they make them work during a holiday and then pay them twice as much.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:22 pm

CUDA wrote:You still dodge my question. Are you afraid of the otherside of the equation?

Why is a day off better for the family then a paycheck.
you want to blame capitalism. Maybe you should blame consumerism. But that wouldnt fit into your blind agenda of blaming business for all the worlds problems would it. If people didn't want to shop on thanksgiving, then businesses wouldn't be open on thanksgiving, and as an employer, if you choose to work for me, you work by my rules.
personally, I wouldn't be open. Buy as an employee I have a choice, follow the rules. Or find another job.

now answer my question.

why is the day off better for the family the a paycheck

One lousy day off to spend time with family. Is that such a hardship? You blame consumerism. I blame business for wanting so much profit, they're forgetting that their employees have a life OUTSIDE of work and that most people can just as easily skip one day of bloody shopping, AS THEY USED TO DO back in the old days. Drug habits can be changed and shopping is a drug habit. They mostly skip it on Christmas anyway, but that's now changing too. Like that progress? That's the way it's heading. A day of work on the sacred day of celebration for Jesus' birthday? Now there's a war on Christmas.

Businesses opening up on Thanksgiving are the one's who created the problem in the first place, not the other way around. People will follow the trail of cheese when it's laid down in front of them. However, most people CAN'T find another job, so they're trapped and at the mercy of their bosses. One lousy national holiday isn't going to break the bank for most businesses. They're just too greedy to feel some empathy for their own employees who are not machines to be abused. Glad I don't work for you. You probably open shop on Thanksgiving.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:26 pm

And you're forgetting that those people make a choice to work for those companies, they dont have to, they can change jobs if they dont like it.
but like a good liberal you dont believe in personal accountability, you want to blame others

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:30 pm

Go ahead, try changing jobs in this climate. Business controls the rules right now. Workers have no choice. You'd know that, if you were a lowly worker.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:58 pm

Blame the gun for the murder

Blame the job for the time spent working

Etc. etc.
Same argument over and over....bloody hell! that's a lot of work...

I know!!

Blame capitalism for everything so you don't have to make countless individual lame indictments...

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:32 pm

tunnelcat wrote:Go ahead, try changing jobs in this climate. Business controls the rules right now. Workers have no choice. You'd know that, if you were a lowly worker.

news flash. I am a "lowly worker" I put in 60 a week and am answerable to the owner of the company.

besides according to the Democrats the economy is fantastic. Should be easy to find a job.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:37 pm

I had to work last Christmas, because a customer wanted a job done…lol

Give me a break, I have to work holidays…weekends…and I haven’t had a summer vacation in over 25 years, because that is my busy season…

Waaa Waaa…cry me a river.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:10 pm

You greedy capitalist bastard

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:08 am

Fine capitalist boys. Screw tradition. Money is king. I'm glad I'm retired and out of the meat grinder. But remember, personal responsibility is not a one-sided affair. Holidays are just that, a holiday. Nationally sactioned time off from work, not required, but anticipated and welcomed. Workers are expected to be responsible for doing their jobs in a responsible manner, in a timely manner and get paid for it. Business should take some responsibility and give time off for the holidays out of respect, or even some humanity.

Out of curiousity CUDA, what happens on Christmas Day around your place of work? Are you required to go to work, or can you stay home or be at church and worship Jesus? And I'm only asking you because of your faith, which I know is very important to you.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:12 am

Around my place of work we are closed for thanksgiving, AND the day after. We are also closed for Christmas. Thats the company I "chose" to work for.

you might not like companies being open on those days, but you have a choice, DONT SHOP ON THOSE DAYS, or there at all. but dont blame the corporation because the rest of America doesnt follow your lead, its a free market. If something doesnt work they'll stop.
and if people choose to get paid double time for working those days they have that right. Who are you to deny them?
You want freedom of choice, but only the choice you want.
you get mad when you perceive when a Republican takes away your "rights" yet you want to do EXACTLY the same thing when you disagree with something.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:36 am

And TC, you still havent answered my question

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:31 pm

CUDA wrote:why is the day off better for the family the a paycheck

To answer the question for TC, perhaps if they were paid an actually reasonable wage instead of just barely enough to keep them from quitting, then they wouldn't have to work on a holiday... And then, given the rampant wage theft in those industries, it is a good question of if they will receive that paycheck at all in the first place even if they do work on the holiday.

So basically many of these workers get neither time with their families or a paycheck, because all the money goes to the CEO and or the preferred shareholders. So naturally, time with family is better than a paycheck that three quarters of them will never see.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:02 pm

The very first time I got jacked out of my pay…that would be the last time I worked for that company.

Sorry, but I can’t feel sorry for people who don’t know and demand their rights.

Now we have even more of these vulnerable people in the states, thanks to the god awful immigration laws, and the lack of proper education.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:21 pm

Krom wrote:
CUDA wrote:why is the day off better for the family the a paycheck
To answer the question for TC, perhaps if they were paid an actually reasonable wage instead of just barely enough to keep them from quitting, then they wouldn't have to work on a holiday... And then, given the rampant wage theft in those industries, it is a good question of if they will receive that paycheck at all in the first place even if they do work on the holiday.

So basically many of these workers get neither time with their families or a paycheck, because all the money goes to the CEO and or the preferred shareholders. So naturally, time with family is better than a paycheck that three quarters of them will never see.

Thank you Krom. I also wonder how many of these retailers actually pay double or triple time for making their employees work on a national holiday anyway? Kmart? Walmart? Hah! My garbage company at least gives off 3 national holiday days a year. Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years.

EDIT: I found out Kmart pays time and a half on Thanksgiving. Pbbfffft, not worth it for me CUDA. I'd quit. No loyalty. Family time is far more important to me and most sales jobs are a dime a dozen because the employees are treated and paid like servants and the turnover rate is high. COSTCO woud get my application however because THEY are at least closed on Thanksgiving. Also, you didn't answer MY question. Would YOU work on Christmas IF your shop demanded it of you?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:48 am

look, Snoopy sorted it out nicely, above: don't shop on Thanksgiving Day. And, I personally take it one step further in that I choose not to purchase ANYTHING during the holiday season from ANY retailer who advertises shopping hours Thanksgiving Day. Now, that's just MY choice, and I'd urge any of you all to do likewise. Were that to become a movement, capitalism will QUICKLY dictate that no retailer will be open on Thanksgiving Day for a long, long time.

Now, trying to compare the situation of a largely minimum wage, part-time workforce with a private contractor having to do jobs on holidays is comparing apples and oranges. I have a lot of friends up north who are tree guys, general contractors and handymen. They work when the customer requests them and needs them. Not the same as a corporate policy aimed to force a pitifully compensated workforce to make them more money on a holiday.

Now, CUDA, we can move onto Blue Laws, but in another thread.....

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:11 pm

Interesting little wrench to throw in:

The spouse of one of my coworkers is a manager at a nearby department store. Apparently, they asked for volunteers to work the Thanksgiving shift (at overtime) and got more volunteers than they needed - so maybe the line workers actually want these Thanksgiving openings because it gives them the opportunity to make a little bit of extra overtime.

Kinda blows a hole in the "those poor workers are forced to work on Thanksgiving" aspect...

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:18 pm

I'm not certain I follow your point, Snoopy. There seem to be two different categories here:

1.) People who want/need the extra pay, and are willing to work that day (e.g. the volunteers you mentioned).

2.) People who would prefer to be with family, but are required to work that day in order to keep their job.

I don't see how the existence of 1s "blows a hole" in the dilemma faced by the 2s.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:48 pm

callmeslick wrote:Now, trying to compare the situation of a largely minimum wage, part-time workforce with a private contractor having to do jobs on holidays is comparing apples and oranges. I have a lot of friends up north who are tree guys, general contractors and handymen. They work when the customer requests them and needs them. Not the same as a corporate policy aimed to force a pitifully compensated workforce to make them more money on a holiday.

You always seem to find fault with my points…by missing them.

My point is not to compare the two, but to say…if that is what kind of job you have…deal with it.

Damn, there have to be some actual issues to gripe about.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:02 pm

Foil wrote:I'm not certain I follow your point, Snoopy. There seem to be two different categories here:

1.) People who want/need the extra pay, and are willing to work that day (e.g. the volunteers you mentioned).

2.) People who would prefer to be with family, but are required to work that day in order to keep their job.

I don't see how the existence of 1s "blows a hole" in the dilemma faced by the 2s.

I guess I'm wondering how many 2's there really are out there, or if most of the workers are really 1's.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:18 pm

I was a '2' once, myself, back around college / grad-school. It served as motive to find different work.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:29 pm

Spidey wrote: My point is not to compare the two, but to say…if that is what kind of job you have…deal with it.

but, to mention one in a general discussion of the other does imply that the situations are the same. When you choose to work, you literally grow your future earnings, by enhancing your professional reputation. Really, what do 8 buck per hour part timers gain from forcing them to work(in some cases) another 6 hours? What percentage of the population really wishes to trade a full day of peace and family for 48 bucks before taxes?

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:42 pm

callmeslick wrote:What percentage of the population really wishes to trade a full day of peace and family for 48 bucks before taxes?

It's a fairly significant percentage. The reasons vary, of course, from "there's no way I'm spending a holiday with my f***ed up family" to "I need the extra to survive" to "I want the extra so I can get that new game", etc.

Conversely, there's a pretty significant percentage who really would rather not work that day, for various reasons, from "I put a priority on family time" to "there's no way I'm working during that insanity", etc.

[ To me, the salient point is not which group is larger, but that both groups of people exist. ]

What's wrong with a little capitalism?

What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?

Re: What's wrong with a little capitalism?