how DO we effectively address terrorism?

[Tunnelcat]

Why even whack at the hornet's nest, unless you want to get stung?

You use the wrong analogy here. The hornet's nest in on your patio, not sitting harmlessly in a tree elsewhere. The hornets loom over you constantly, preventing peaceful enjoyment of your domain. They need to go. The rapid rise of Islamic radicalism in Europe is the current hornet's nest that needs to be dealt with. The correct tools for removing it are either undiscovered or haven't been invented, and that's why slick prompted this discourse.

OK, here's another question. Why has radical Islam risen in the past decade? It didn't just spring up out of nothing. Someone's pissed off. Aren't Europe and America a little culpable in all this mess?

history says you're wrong. "Islam" has been doing this since around 700AD

Everybody's been doing it since 700AD, and before. It's an age old conflict zone. Nobody likes each other. However, don't dismiss out of hand the random redrawing of old borders by the western powers after WWII and good old Bushie stirring up the pot some more with his 2 little ill begotten conflicts in those constantly unstable regions. None of that helped tensions over there, and at worst, it made us targets. If it hadn't been for all that oil and for the presence of Israel, which I don't begrudge them by the way, they have the right to exist too, we could have stayed the hell out of that whole ancient cesspool.

[callmeslick]

There is no such thing as a still body of water when someone is dropping grenades in it.

I’m all for that Zen response to violence, but after you turn the other cheek, and they slap you there too, what do you offer them next.

How many slaps does it take before you loose it and punch back, how many slaps could be avoided if you simply punched back after the first slap.

I understand what you are saying, but…these are the wrong kind of people to do nothing in response to…because I guarantee, they will take full advantage of it. (and you won’t have anything left to slap)

plus, human nature, in the face of repeated attacks, will dictate abandonment of the zen approach, it seems to me. Sort of what has long set in with the Israel/Palestine players. It's very tough to break that cycle of repeated provocations followed by a response.....

[callmeslick]

OK, here's another question. Why has radical Islam risen in the past decade? It didn't just spring up out of nothing. Someone's pissed off. Aren't Europe and America a little culpable in all this mess?

that last DECADE? Radical, jihadist Islam has been on the rise since AT LEAST the 1970s. Likely before that, because I'm basing that figure on when those here in certain places noticed the rise. Who knows how long what mix of ideology and religion has been brewing for how long within the Muslim world? And yes, Europe and the US are recruiting tools, convenient scapegoats and of course, infidels. Insofar as our actions, many of which could best be referred to as blunders, reinforce the negative spin they are selling, yes, we are culpable.

[Ferno]

There is no such thing as a still body of water when someone is dropping grenades in it.

I’m all for that Zen response to violence, but after you turn the other cheek, and they slap you there too, what do you offer them next.

How many slaps does it take before you loose it and punch back, how many slaps could be avoided if you simply punched back after the first slap.

I understand what you are saying, but…these are the wrong kind of people to do nothing in response to…because I guarantee, they will take full advantage of it. (and you won’t have anything left to slap)

plus, human nature, in the face of repeated attacks, will dictate abandonment of the zen approach, it seems to me. Sort of what has long set in with the Israel/Palestine players. It's very tough to break that cycle of repeated provocations followed by a response.....

I know it's hard, but look at what's happened recently. We (generally speaking) caved into the demands of the terrorists by pulling cartoons they did not like.

That is essentially telling them that their tactics have power over us. It's not a case of trying to stop a dictatorial tyrant by a conventional war, but it's now a case of trying to overcome an idea. The more leaders we target and kill, the greater their cause becomes. To them, death means nothing. I don't want to sound crass, but it's like they get off on martyrdom.

[woodchip]

To further what Ferno is pointing out, when's the last time you heard of a Christians getting homicidal when someone disgraces one of their religious figures? Depicting The Virgin Mary in elephant dung is one example that comes to mind. There are others I'm sure some of you recall.

I just wonder if such repulsive acts would of occurred if some Christians went berserk and killed the artist along with the gallery owners? The closest the
Christians have to real wacko's are the Phelps family and they limit their bile to protesting in poor taste.

[Tunnelcat]

Christians DO tend to go berserk when secularists and atheists sue cities and states in order to remove religious artifacts from public places, like the Ten Commandments or large Crosses. They even like to call it a war on Cristianity, or Christmas if it concerns Nativity Scenes. Tsk, tsk, no tolerance. At least they're far less violent about it than the Muslims, although people have come to blows over the issue.

Also, there is that whole Crusades thing way back when that I'm sure the Muslims haven't forgotten about either.

[Ferno]

At least they're far less violent about it than the Muslims, although people have come to blows over the issue.

Probably because they realized suing is much more effective.

[CUDA]

.

[callmeslick]

there is no point to pointing out that Christians have not done the same sort of religious-based genocide recently(Naziism has roots in extreme Christian theology, so we don't really have to go back to the Crusades). The point is that bastardization of a religion is not the fault of the entire religion or all of its adherants.

[Tunnelcat]

At least they're far less violent about it than the Muslims, although people have come to blows over the issue.

Probably because they realized suing is much more effective.

Well, according to most conservatives, lawyers ARE terrorists.

[Ferno]

oh boy... here we go again.

[Will Robinson]

Well it's looking like the answer to 'How we address terrorism' is to try to obscure the contrast between the cultures that foster terrorism and the rest of the world. Yea, that's going to help

[CUDA]

oh boy... here we go again.

Ya I debated, then thought better of it

[Tunnelcat]

oh boy... here we go again.

Ya I debated, then thought better of it

Good thing. I was only joking.

[callmeslick]

To further what Ferno is pointing out, when's the last time you heard of a Christians getting homicidal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afr ... story.html

[sigma]

The most effective way to fight Islamic terrorists: Barack Obama should allow American gay soldiers not hide their sexual orientation. Taliban fear them more than anyone else.

[woodchip]

To further what Ferno is pointing out, when's the last time you heard of a Christians getting homicidal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afr ... story.html

Gosh, some Christians finally got fed up with being Islams bayonet dummy and fought back. Not a very good example now is it. Why don't you bring up all those American Christian soldiers who killed oodles of people in both world wars, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan,

[Ferno]

The most effective way to fight Islamic terrorists: Barack Obama should allow American gay soldiers not hide their sexual orientation. Taliban fear them more than anyone else.

And cartoons.

[Sergeant Thorne]

To further what Ferno is pointing out, when's the last time you heard of a Christians getting homicidal

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afr ... story.html

Christ said to love your enemies, and do good to those who hate you... but those are Christians because the article says so?

[sigma]

The most effective way to fight Islamic terrorists: Barack Obama should allow American gay soldiers not hide their sexual orientation. Taliban fear them more than anyone else.

And cartoons.

I think you will agree with me that the cartoons is a very dangerous thing. You love to make fun of other, but do not like when a joke on you. I have not seen so far no comments for this comic theme.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21736&p=345532#p345532

Although there is no sarcasm, and it is pure humor. If the West is too loosely relate to political or religious cartoons, believe me, I can post here more satirical images than you, and they will not like.

You want it?

I can do it, and to me it will be very funny.

[Ferno]

I think you will agree with me that the cartoons is a very dangerous thing. You love to make fun of other, but do not like when a joke on you. I have not seen so far no comments for this comic theme.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=21736&p=345532#p345532

Although there is no sarcasm, and it is pure humor. If the West is too loosely relate to political or religious cartoons, believe me, I can post here more satirical images than you, and they will not like.

You want it?

I can do it, and to me it will be very funny.

Oh goodie, you think I'm American when I told you I'm Canadian.

I'm going to tell you this in the nicest way possible. If you want to get into it with me, be prepared for a long stint.


And for everyone else reading this; buckle your seatbelts and get your popcorn. You can split it right here if you want, Foil.

[sigma]

... If the West is too loosely relate to political or religious cartoons...

Canada is in America, America is in the West, in America, Americans live.
The difference between Americans from the United States and Americans from Canada only in the fact that the word "Americans" is a is a collective image for all Americans from the United States, regardless of nationality. Just as in the West, all Russian citizens called "Russian", even if they are not Russian by nationality.

[CUDA]

Who knew. Ferno is a closet American. I guess no more Hoser jokes

[Will Robinson]

Ferno can see Russia from his house. No wonder he's always laughing

[sigma]

Ferno can see only the US from his house. And I understand the reason for his laughter

[Ferno]

Ferno can see Russia from his house. No wonder he's always laughing

Russia is a silly country. They have cold, we have cold. They have bears, we have big men with beards that look like bears. They eat fish, we eat moose. They shoot guns, we shoot cannons.

[sigma]

Ferno can see Russia from his house. No wonder he's always laughing

Russia is a silly country. They have cold, we have cold. They have bears, we have big men with beards that look like bears. They eat fish, we eat moose. They shoot guns, we shoot cannons.

I'm happy to hear it While the Americans or another our potential enemy believe that Russian stupid and weak, I can sleep peacefully. If Americans begin to praise Putin and Russian, we need to prepare for war.

[Will Robinson]

I genuinely admire Putin. He is an impressive leader.

Remember, last time you tried to prepare to face us you went broke....of course you are almost broke now too...so I say with all seriousness:
We really like Putin and Russia.

Now go prepare.

There, that was easy. Kerry can just send me the check.

[sigma]

I agree with you that the Russian and Americans have too much in common at the level of our peoples. At the level of the state of competition, Americans are copying and stealing our secrets as well as Russian steal American secrets. I am sure that the Americans themselves never attack Russia without external pressure. Likely to be a provocation organized one of the Islamic states, which has great influence on the US political elite. Islamists beneficial to the two largest military state devoured each other. I think it will be the biggest success of the jihadists.

[callmeslick]

I genuinely admire Putin. He is an impressive leader.

Remember, last time you tried to prepare to face us you went broke....of course you are almost broke now too...so I say with all seriousness:
We really like Putin and Russia.

Now go prepare.

There, that was easy. Kerry can just send me the check.

it will be drawn on a Heinz Foods account.