Baptist says Earth doesn't rotate...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:54 pm

...no wait...

HMMM...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:56 pm

so what, pretty much akin to evolution deniers. Religion can whack out a person's common sense. Read that a few weeks ago, by the way, why post it here now?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:13 pm

callmeslick wrote:...Read that a few weeks ago, by the way, why post it here now?

Because the earth not only does rotate but everything in the solar system revolves around something other than you?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:15 pm

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gay-te ... tian,2888/

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:53 pm

Let's keep in mind that we live in a country harboring a museum seriously purporting that people walked around all buddy-buddy with dinosaurs.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Damn those Flintstones.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:22 pm

well, you made that point well, TB!!!

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:01 pm

callmeslick wrote:well, you made that point well, TB!!!

We really could do without religion- that's for sure.

I really don't care if people want to worship pink unicorns...but the moment pink unicorn worshippers tell me I have to convert or die, then I do care.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:57 pm

when they tell me the earth is flat, the solar system is stationary or the dinosaurs lived with man, I just laugh. Thus far, not one soul has ever told me to convert or die, so I'll hold judgement until that day arrives. The guy in your link wasn't doing so, nor were the other examples. Stupidity is FAR more prevalent than fanaticism, from my vantage point.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:28 am

callmeslick wrote:when they tell me the earth is flat, the solar system is stationary or the dinosaurs lived with man, I just laugh. Thus far, not one soul has ever told me to convert or die, so I'll hold judgement until that day arrives. ...

Actually you were told that very thing.
November 24 2002. Osama bin Ladin, in response to numerous web sites/blogs/etc/ where people were buzzing with debate asking each other "Why are we fighting..." he decided to publish a letter to all of us and in it were two parts, one, why did they attack us and two, what do they want from us to cause them to stop attacking.
Here is a piece of the second part, the part where he told you convert or die.

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable state to which you have reached.

(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by the history of mankind:

(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire. You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?

(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.

(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even though your nation is the largest consumer of them.

(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object.

Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered by nations?

(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the criminals becoming rich.

(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then rant that you support the liberation of women.

(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms, directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other deceptive names you attribute to it.

(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American Invention.

(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries.

(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.

(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!

(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.

(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.

(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.

(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.

What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:33 am

puhleez, Will, if that sort of thing does anything to scare you, smoke some weed or something to chill out. Reacting to that is essentially allowing terrorists to carry the day.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:09 am

But you said “not one soul”.

Did you mean personally, or did the destruction of seven buildings not get your attention.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:28 am

I suspect the families of the 3000 killed on 9/11 might have something to argue with slick about.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:30 am

slick, not one soul in this thread told you what you are now huffing and puffing about...

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:31 am

callmeslick wrote:when they tell me the earth is flat, the solar system is stationary or the dinosaurs lived with man, I just laugh. Thus far, not one soul has ever told me to convert or die, so I'll hold judgement until that day arrives. The guy in your link wasn't doing so, nor were the other examples. Stupidity is FAR more prevalent than fanaticism, from my vantage point.

I'll grant you that stupidity seems to rule the day - I agree with Hanlon's razor with few reservations.

That being said, we're going down the road of a logical fallacy that I see all the time: we try to use our science to critique other's philosophies. Furthermore, the mob mentality consistently prevails. What do I mean? Okay... let's see: "The earth is round" - well, yes in Euclidian Geometry, but not necessarily in others. (By the way, space isn't strictly Euclidean according to Einstein.) "The solar system is moving" - um... relative to what? If I want to make the earth my fixed frame I can (validly) state that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it. "Dinosaurs didn't live with man" - how do you know? What are you going to do when they discover a fossil of a dinosaur with human bones in its gut?

We use conventions in science to understand things from a common ground, basically to facilitate communication and the spread of the knowledge. The conventions [necessarily] make some philosophical assumptions - but ultimately philosophy (the Bible is primarily a philosophical book) and science have different goals: science seeks to answer the question "how" while philosophy seeks to answer the question "why." It's a logical fallacy to pretend that your (apparantly valid) conclusions about "how" make my conclusions about "why" invalid.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:47 am

Baptists lot that can be said. But fact is fact. When we look through a telescope at the nearest galaxy to us, we see an image that was thousands of years ago. Therefore, the inhabitants of the Andromeda Galaxy are not even aware of our existence. When they look through a telescope at the Earth, they now see as our planet here running dinosaurs

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:35 am

sigma wrote:Baptists lot that can be said. But fact is fact. When we look through a telescope at the nearest galaxy to us, we see an image that was thousands of years ago. Therefore, the inhabitants of the Andromeda Galaxy are not even aware of our existence. When they look through a telescope at the Earth, they now see as our planet here running dinosaurs

You make the assumption that what they use for a "telescope" depends on light.

Maybe what we see is dependent on light only because the people in that galaxy have constrained us from 'seeing' the way they do because we aren't meant to come out and play with the big boys...
Maybe they will come over here once our DNA is properly ripened and harvest us for supper. Maybe we are nothing more than spice for their food.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Will Robinson wrote:You make the assumption that what they use for a "telescope" depends on light.

Will needs to learn about physics.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:07 pm

Spidey wrote:But you said “not one soul”.

Did you mean personally, or did the destruction of seven buildings not get your attention.

personally, but 9/11 attackers didn't care one whit about my conversion, I'm quite sure.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:10 pm

vision needs to learn about spooky action at a distance.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:17 pm

All those people seriously worry me too, one could think that in the 21st freaking century some notions would become obsolete.

But the way I look at it, they're just making a desperate last stand. People are leaving organized religion slowly but steadily, and the easy access to information that we have today makes it really easy to verify one's point of view.

There's the issue of cognitive dissonance, though. Some of those fanatical fact-deniers get so emotionally involved in their beliefs and convictions that the prospect of abandoning them makes them feel pain, that's why they disregard evidence to desperately cling to their proposals.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:18 pm

Will Robinson wrote:You make the assumption that what they use for a "telescope" depends on light.

Maybe what we see is dependent on light only because the people in that galaxy have constrained us from 'seeing' the way they do because we aren't meant to come out and play with the big boys...
Maybe they will come over here once our DNA is properly ripened and harvest us for supper. Maybe we are nothing more than spice for their food.

LOL. horrible science fail.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:51 pm

Ferno wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:You make the assumption that what they use for a "telescope" depends on light.

Maybe what we see is dependent on light only because the people in that galaxy have constrained us from 'seeing' the way they do because we aren't meant to come out and play with the big boys...
Maybe they will come over here once our DNA is properly ripened and harvest us for supper. Maybe we are nothing more than spice for their food.
LOL. horrible science fail.

No, fantastic science fiction.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:01 pm

fair enough, Will!

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Xfing wrote:There's the issue of cognitive dissonance, though. Some of those fanatical fact-deniers get so emotionally involved in their beliefs and convictions that the prospect of abandoning them makes them feel pain, that's why they disregard evidence to desperately cling to their proposals.

Not to mention quasi-religious belief in things such as anthropogenic global warming.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:37 pm

wow, TB still doesn't grasp science. At all.

oddly, though, he started the thread inferring such denial to be strong in the Muslim world.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:48 pm

callmeslick wrote:fair enough, Will!

Considering I was talking about people/creatures in another galaxy and their capabilities I have to wonder at vision and Ferno....were they so hell bent on finding fault with my comments that they didn't bother to understand them before launching an argument against them?...Oh,.....yea....that's right....that is what they do all the time.

It was extra amusing to see them do it this time though

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:23 pm

Spidey wrote:vision needs to learn about spooky action at a distance.

Spooky action at a distance does not allow information to be transmitted faster than light.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:41 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:fair enough, Will!
Considering I was talking about people/creatures in another galaxy and their capabilities I have to wonder...

except you know... light doesn't work that way in real life, and spooky action at a distance isn't involved in it.

can't just say 'hey you bunch of photons, when you get near this one planet out of billions in the universe, take a sharp left, mmkay?'

It makes for "battlefield: earth" sci-fi.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:34 am

Ferno wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:fair enough, Will!
Considering I was talking about people/creatures in another galaxy and their capabilities I have to wonder...
except you know... light doesn't work that way in real life, and spooky action at a distance isn't involved in it.

can't just say 'hey you bunch of photons, when you get near this one planet out of billions in the universe, take a sharp left, mmkay?'

It makes for "battlefield: earth" sci-fi.

I don't know what battlefield earth is but in my comments about a universe I created I am the master of all things "science" since I am the supreme creator of it so it isn't relevant nor is any other reference you may attempt to measure with.

I clearly called the word telescope into question and even held your hand to stipulate that light was not the means these inhabitants of another galaxy used to 'see' us (notice my calling the word "see" into question 'like this').
You just jerked your knee to react in beligerance toward anything I say. I must be living rent free in your head. I am attracted to big empty spaces though so your imagination got that much right...

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:38 am

Ferno wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:You make the assumption that what they use for a "telescope" depends on light.

Maybe what we see is dependent on light only because the people in that galaxy have constrained us from 'seeing' the way they do because we aren't meant to come out and play with the big boys...
Maybe they will come over here once our DNA is properly ripened and harvest us for supper. Maybe we are nothing more than spice for their food.
LOL. horrible science fail.

I suspect some here have forgotten about radio telescopes.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:39 am

meanwhile, one to ponder:

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:49 am

slick, what do you think that proves?
I think you and the creator of the caption in that pic should take some time to ponder...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:52 am

it proves that man, on the whole, doesn't think stuff through...........

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:10 am

ahh, my bad! I shouldn't have jumped to associate you with the idiot who made the caption. I thought you were in agreement with the premise it was designed to promote instead of mocking it...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:25 am

mocking nothing short of man's silly stupidity, Will.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:12 am

vision wrote:
Spidey wrote:vision needs to learn about spooky action at a distance.
Spooky action at a distance does not allow information to be transmitted faster than light.

Yes actually it does, but not in any “classical” sense, in other words no “signal” is transmitted thru space.

But in theory with the proper manipulation and detecting devices at either end information is possible. IE: change the quantum state…and detect that change at a distance.

I read that the Chinese just measured entanglement at no less than 4 magnitudes of light speed. (how did they measure…without information)

Sorry, it’s too long a subject to get into here, and the science is changing all of the time.

Not to mention it was only an example, of different possibilities.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:19 am

Let's do a little experiment concerning the transmission of information at a distance.
Now I sent to all participants of the forum a mental message. It's interesting, you feel it? If so, tell me, what I told you.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:20 am

ewwww, Sigma. Now THAT'S sort of creepy.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:23 am

He said "America Sucks"