A Failure in Moderation

[Pumo]

Indeed, and I totally agree with you on that sigma (should I know, seeing the political and social situation on my country), the world is such a violent mess, much, much worse than any stuff you see on the E&C forum, and in fact the media doesn't shows all real stuff going on.

I pretty much know that compared to the real world E&C is just like a bunch of children making doodles and throwing some tantrum every now and then (and by the way, that's almost literally how I actually see at many of the users that participate on E&C).

However, for this specific community that is dedicated to a videogame, I think it's more toxic than benefical to have that section.

Maybe converting the E&C section to a private (just members that request to be on it) shoutbox would be better to let them fight on the fly, without attacking moderators for closing/not closing topics?

[sigma]

Looks like it's time to add a little positive

[vision]

However, for this specific community that is dedicated to a videogame, I think it's more toxic than benefical to have that section.

If there were no E&C I would not miss it in the slightest. I only post there while waiting for Descent updates.

[Ferno]

this is still going??

[Xfing]

Good thing I don't really post in those sections .

Then again, I feel like I'm missing out

[Pumo]

Nooo, you're not missing anything!
Better to stay away from that hell's pit!

[Lothar]

Every time I go into E&C nowadays I think "wow, this place sure went downhill". Like, if I was actively moderating it, I'd probably delete half of the posts in most threads -- and that's if I felt like letting name-calling slide if it came with some substance. Seems like it's pretty much the same people insulting each other back and forth while repeating the same talking points. No originality, no civility. I mean, I left because I didn't want to spend the tiny bit of free time left over after taking care of the baby on discussions with a kid who kept projecting her daddy issues onto me... but now it's like everyone is projecting their daddy issues onto everyone else. I'm surprised you guys haven't just shut the place down.

[Jeff250]

It's easy to be a back seat moderator. Some people call for us to moderate more strongly, and yet others think we moderate too strongly (hence the creation of this thread after all). I serve the people who post here, and for better or for worse, the people who post here now aren't the same people who posted here back in the "good old days". I miss a lot of the debates we used to have, but none of those people are coming back.

It's disingenuous to call for the close of the E&C. I don't even post there much myself anymore, but its activity obviously dominates the DBB, and it has a lot of value for a lot of people, even if they aren't me, or us.

[Lothar]

It's easier to back-seat moderate when you've been a front seat moderator.

And yeah, I get that there's always the balance between "too strongly" and "not strongly enough". The issue I noticed, though, was that every thread I tried to look at was more personal comments than anything even resembling content. It's like we've discarded the Sirian ethos in favor of the Bettina ethos.

I guess it has value for people, I'm just not sure what that value is. I don't think any of the people involved in those discussions are learning anything from each other. Maybe it lets them get their anger out of their systems so they don't cuss out their uncle on facebook over the same issue? I don't know.

[Krom]

The video in this thread pretty much explains E&C: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=21877

[vision]

I guess it has value for people, I'm just not sure what that value is.

For me, the value is entertainment while waiting for good posts about Descent. It's also the only place I interact with crazy people on the Internet. I do actually learn stuff though. Sometimes one of those goofballs will say something that sounds ridiculous, but somewhat believable, then I look it up to be sure that yes in fact it is ridiculous.

[sigma]

Obama's administration? You want to say that he could establish its own Administration? There really is full of [removed - language]!

Foil, let's clarify the terms. The word "★■◆●" is a harsh word here? I would like to clarify this, because in Russia the word expresses respect. While every ★■◆● in Russia knows that if it would be called "black" it is insult.

[Jeff250]

Yes, in English, n***er extremely offensive. Out of curiosity, when you talk about the usage of n***er and black in Russia, what are the words in Russian that you're referring to?

[sigma]

The word "★■◆●" (негр) in Russian is a basic, standard, common name people blacks. At the same time, in Russia is better not to use the word "black" (черный) in relation to representatives of any dark-skinned races. For example, if I want to strongly insult and humiliate a man with black skin, I'll tell him - "Hey, black!".

As will be correct to call Negroes in the English language? Negro?

[sigma]

I looked through the forum again. OK. Excuse me, niggers, but here I will call you blacks. There is a common expression apparently

[Jeff250]

When I put "негр" into Google Translate, it comes out "negro" in English, so I don't think in Russia you are *really* calling black people anything resembling the English word "n***er". It's probably more of a translational issue for the word "негр".

The normal term to refer to black people here is just that--black people. If you know that they're ethnically African and nationally American, then you can also use the term African American.

Note that using the term as a noun (e.g. "the blacks" or "hey black") is different than as an adjective (e.g. "black people") and is *sometimes* considered offensive, often depending on the context (although *never* as offensive as "n***er").

[sigma]

I specifically just found two blacks on the street in Moscow, handed out flyers. I asked them how the most correct to call them. Unfortunately, they did not want to talk about it. They were visibly scared when I asked them this question and they ran away from me. Nevertheless, the word "негр" now it is still more literary expression, because I prefer to refer to them as "dark-skinned".

[Avder]

It's easy to be a back seat moderator. Some people call for us to moderate more strongly, and yet others think we moderate too strongly (hence the creation of this thread after all). I serve the people who post here, and for better or for worse, the people who post here now aren't the same people who posted here back in the "good old days". I miss a lot of the debates we used to have, but none of those people are coming back.

It's disingenuous to call for the close of the E&C. I don't even post there much myself anymore, but its activity obviously dominates the DBB, and it has a lot of value for a lot of people, even if they aren't me, or us.

I'm currently a front seat moderator, a Global Moderator on a rather large hockey forum, and I can tell you that the E&C as it exists now it chronically undermoderated. Topics degenerate from discussion to insults and flamewars within a few posts. Topics are made that are basically just a link and a one line snark shot at one side of the political spectrum or the other. The same old insults are hurled out time and time again. There is very little discussion there because there is just a bunch of fights.

I'm not saying a moderator should be like a presidential debate moderator and actively guide discussion. A good moderating team should make sure arguments don't break out that derail the thread and that insults that add nothing to the discussion are prohibited, and chronic offenders removed from certain threads or even the whole forum until they can learn to talk like adults.

The E&C does not have a good moderating team, and I suspect given this forums overall level of activity it would be hard to find one with both the time and inclination needed to actively moderate that forum and put the flames out.

So with that supposition in mind, there are two remaining options: declare it completely unmoderated (and lets be honest, it basically is now) and remove only posts that could cause legal trouble, or close it down completely.

But let's think about the big picture here: this is supposed to be a forum for the discussion of Descent. And with new 6DoF games on the horizon including a new Franchise Descent game, it would be prudent to put the DBB's best foot forward and make this place look as nice as possible for potential new users who might consider coming here to discuss the games outside of the developers official forums. Descent Underground could mean the revitalization of this whole community if people who stopped playing long ago come back and new users start signing up.

The E&C forum is the biggest blight on the whole board. I fully expect that if someone came here and browsed every forum looking to sign up, they would undoubtedly be deterred by that single forum because that is literally where the vast majority of activity is these days.

The people in the E&C should be able to find new places on the internet to bicker and hurl insults at eachother. This board should expect better than that cess-pool.

Shut it down.

[Pumo]

...But let's think about the big picture here: this is supposed to be a forum for the discussion of Descent. And with new 6DoF games on the horizon including a new Franchise Descent game, it would be prudent to put the DBB's best foot forward and make this place look as nice as possible for potential new users who might consider coming here to discuss the games outside of the developers official forums. Descent Underground could mean the revitalization of this whole community if people who stopped playing long ago come back and new users start signing up.

The E&C forum is the biggest blight on the whole board. I fully expect that if someone came here and browsed every forum looking to sign up, they would undoubtedly be deterred by that single forum because that is literally where the vast majority of activity is these days.

The people in the E&C should be able to find new places on the internet to bicker and hurl insults at eachother. This board should expect better than that cess-pool.

Shut it down.

Definitely, that would be the best.
I'm waiting since years to see that forum gone from the DBB for good.

Why it's there up to today, in the first place? It's not related to Descent at all, and we already have the PTMC cafe for some off-topic stuff.
Maybe in the past it was something, but now it's just a simple and retarded fighting arena.

These forums needs some cleanup indeed.

[Spidey]

Whining about a forum…how pathetic, if you don’t like it stay out of it.

Anyone who thinks it’s worse now then in the past, is seeing the forum through nostalgic colored glasses…I was called a fag in spandex the day I joined, in fact things go so bad at one point, I had to leave.

Once all of the jerks left for .com, I decided to give this board another shot, and believe me, the debate might not be as good (there were many more people back then) but the really serious ★■◆● is no more.

Perhaps if some new players join due to the new game (if it happens) the debate will get better, but I also expect the worse kind of crap will return as well.

Ok, back to complaining about a forum you don’t use.